Gauging interest in pen tool tutorial

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Gauging interest in pen tool tutorial

Postby DriftRoot » Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:54 am

Occasionally in these forums I'll see references to the pen tool, commonly found in better graphics programs like Photoshop, Illustrator and PaintShop Pro, not to mention AE (I think). A lot of times people express frustration with it or do not seem to be using it correctly. Right now I'm in the middle of creating a pen tool tutorial for one of my design classes, and I'm wondering if this is the kind of thing people would like to see in the a-m-v.org tutorial section.

The tutorial focuses on the use of the pen tool for creating quick and accurated selections, alpha channel transparencies, masks, etc., all of which are common components of AMVs. It will offer instruction in the pen tool's capabilities, its pros and cons and tips for achieving the best results. The tutorial will not cover in detail how to export masks for use in your video editing program of choice, since a tutorial on that is already here. A section on using workpaths created by the pen tool in AE also may be included if it seems appropriate - although maybe I could do that as a separate tutorial.

Anyways, let me know. The pen tool can be incredibly frustrating until you learn its ins and outs - but then it becomes your best friend. While there are other tutorials on the Web for using the pen tool, I know I personally would have liked to see one here as it applies to AMVing - something a lot of editors may never have thought of or, if they did, felt it would be too difficult to handle.
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Postby Shinodude » Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:24 am

vegas 5.0 and 6.0 also have a pen tool im not sure if 4.0 has it tho
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Postby DriftRoot » Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:29 am

Most decent graphics programs have it - which just demonstrates how useful it is - and the pen tool controls are pretty consistent across various applications. Once you "get it," you get it, there may be slight differences in execution or keyboard shortcuts, but a pen tool is a pen tool.
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Postby Minion » Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:43 am

pen tool is the base for every vector art program (illustrator, freehand, correl, flexi, ect.)
when i explain it to people, i tell them
"first click your start point, then hold your endpoint and drag to make a curve. make a curve when you make your start point if you want a different shaped arch".

when i first started doibng work in illustrator, i avoided pen tool like AIDS.
and yes, it does eventually become your best friend.

the best way to learn pen tool, is to drop an image into illustrator, and try to make a perfect trace with as few paths as possible.
once you've learned it in illustrator, it's the same thing in every other programs. just different keyboard shortcuts, as you said(thouh its usually ctrl to go back to selection tool, or cmd on a mac), and you'll be making masks and selections instead of creating objects (presumably).
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Postby Minion » Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:44 am

Minion wrote:doing work in illustrator

some days i pray for an edit button more than others
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Postby DriftRoot » Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:31 am

Minion wrote:pen tool is the base for every vector art program (illustrator, freehand, correl, flexi, ect.) when i explain it to people, i tell them
"first click your start point, then hold your endpoint and drag to make a curve. make a curve when you make your start point if you want a different shaped arch".


Hehe, it's truly scary how simple you make it sound. :P Don't listen to Minion, everyone, it's a trick! :lol:
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Postby TaranT » Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:39 am

Are you talking about something like this: http://www.ulead.com/learning/pi/pi10_04_1.htm ?
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Postby Minion » Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:59 am

DriftRoot wrote:
Minion wrote:pen tool is the base for every vector art program (illustrator, freehand, correl, flexi, ect.) when i explain it to people, i tell them
"first click your start point, then hold your endpoint and drag to make a curve. make a curve when you make your start point if you want a different shaped arch".


Hehe, it's truly scary how simple you make it sound. :P Don't listen to Minion, everyone, it's a trick! :lol:

heh, thanks. i'm a graphic artist, so i deal with pen tool daily (as well as teaching people once and awile)



TaranT wrote:Are you talking about something like this: http://www.ulead.com/learning/pi/pi10_04_1.htm ?

no
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Postby Zarxrax » Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:36 am

I've been messing with the pen tool for years now, and I STILL hate that little bugger! Its so trixy...

A tutorial for it would definately be a good thing, because it is a very basic (though difficult to learn) tool that people should be using sometimes.

I would recommend a video tutorial though, rather than text based.
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Postby trythil » Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:50 pm

DriftRoot wrote:Most decent graphics programs have it - which just demonstrates how useful it is - and the pen tool controls are pretty consistent across various applications. Once you "get it," you get it, there may be slight differences in execution or keyboard shortcuts, but a pen tool is a pen tool.


I'd still recommend that you explicitly limit the scope of the tutorial to (say) Adobe programs only, or even a subset of Adobe products that actually have very similar behavior. While pen tools generally do allow you to edit Bézier curves, those "slight differences in execution" can really impact one's workflow, and I do not think it wise for the tutorial to imply that it offers The One True Workflow for pen tools. (Not to mention that it's not always called the "pen" elsewhere.)

Example:

Synfig's "pen" (actually called bline) tool operates in a way that is rather different from Inkscape's. In Synfig, you can edit all components of the path at any time when the tool is active (and thus combines both pen and path editor). This can dramatically reshape one's workflow once one gets used to the idea of tool capabilities being combined. In Inkscape, you can edit only the latest component added to the path (ergo, acts more like a pen in that regard). However, the path editor tool allows you to edit the entire path once it is created, and allows you to do things that I haven't seen in other 2D vector graphics programs, such as pressure-sensitive proportional editing. That's handy, and really affects the way you edit paths, once you start using it.
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Postby Scintilla » Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:07 pm

I know The GIMP's pen tool works pretty much the same way as Adobe Photoshop 5.5's, if that helps.

The pen tool is probably #1 on my list of "technologies I wish I'd learned about earlier in my AMVing career".
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Postby DriftRoot » Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:01 pm

trythil wrote:I'd still recommend that you explicitly limit the scope of the tutorial to (say) Adobe programs only, or even a subset of Adobe products that actually have very similar behavior.


I know, of course any programs whose pen tool or workpath tools vary significantly would not factor into my tutorial, this would be mentioned up front. You have to start somewhere, though. If you're really serious about using the pen tool, it will get you off to a good start. *rummages around*

The tutorial, btw, would probably be a PDF with video clips embedded in it. It would not be straight text. It's unfortunate that I hate the sound of my voice, or I'd narrate, but let's be fair - we can't have deaf people making AMVs, now can we? Hehe.

I'd probably use my vector-buddy Alucard for the tutorial, since he's got some attitude and nice shapes and is, of course, anime-related. Anyone know what the righthand writing on his gun is supposed to say? I never could read it clearly enough and had to make up some hogwash to put there instead. I should have put, "Make sweet love to me XOXO Integra." This would have gone over a lot of people's heads, though. :roll:
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Postby DriftRoot » Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:11 pm

trythil wrote:Synfig's "pen" (actually called bline) tool operates in a way that is rather different from Inkscape's. In Synfig, you can edit all components of the path at any time when the tool is active (and thus combines both pen and path editor). This can dramatically reshape one's workflow once one gets used to the idea of tool capabilities being combined.


And btw, unless one is used to being restricted by inadequate knowledge of the pen tool (Photoshop-wise, anyways), there will be no dramatic reshaping of workflows going on because I'm going to make sure tutorialees know about the wonders of the keyboard shortcuts and what that mysterious white arrow is used for. :twisted:
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Postby Minion » Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:54 pm

though it's a very good tutorial overall, has anyone read ladymercury's vegas guide? right there is a fine example of mis-using the pen tool. she cuts out al from FMA with pen tool at one point.
now, this should have taken no more than 20 ancor points, i'd say.
theres likely over 100 ancor points, though.
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Postby DriftRoot » Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:11 am

Never read it, but that situation is pretty much the inspiration for this tutorial. *hugs her pen tool* Think simple, people, the fewer anchorpoints, the better!

There will be a warning, though, in the tutorial that some people seem to have an inherent knack for its use and that others don't. In class, once, I was ready to shake the living daylights out of this guy next to me who seemed to have no concept of what a smooth curve looked like, but insisted he was well-versed with the pen tool - even though he was tracing a smooth line, he had all sorts of weird bumps and angles going on. ARGH!!
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