MKV for adobe premiere pro CS5

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MKV for adobe premiere pro CS5

Postby Mini-ru » Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:02 pm

Does anyone know if there is a plugin for Premeire Pro CS5 for an MKV file? I dont want to convert my MKV to AVI.
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Re: MKV for adobe premiere pro CS5

Postby Pwolf » Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:43 am

There is not.
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Re: MKV for adobe premiere pro CS5

Postby MetamorphosisStudios » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:04 pm

not yet but there is a plugin for an erlier version of premiere pro i forgot the name of it tho....
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Re: MKV for adobe premiere pro CS5

Postby Brad » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:12 pm

Your best option is probably to import the MKV via AVIsynth (though with CS5, you'll need to use AVIsynth 64-bit, which DOES work, but it's complicated. It took me a long while to get a functional workflow, and unfortunately I didn't keep track of exactly what I did. I only know that it's working for me now. Just had to do a lot of digging online).
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Re: MKV for adobe premiere pro CS5

Postby Phantasmagoriat » Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:35 pm

Depending on what's in the .mkv, you could simply remux the streams into .mp4

Just use a simple drag-n-drop script like this: mkv--mp4
(ofc, you'll have to put ffmpeg.exe in the same folder)
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Re: MKV for adobe premiere pro CS5

Postby DJ_Izumi » Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:19 pm

Phantasmagoriat wrote:Depending on what's in the .mkv, you could simply remux the streams into .mp4


This certianly seems like the best method. 99% of the time your MKV has an h.264 stream in it, so transmux it into an MOV or MP4 container and Premiere should happily edit. It can already edit various h.264 formats from a range of cameras, the issue isn't the format but the container.
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Re: MKV for adobe premiere pro CS5

Postby Pwolf » Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:28 pm

DJ_Izumi wrote:...so transmux it into an MOV or MP4 container and Premiere should happily edit. It can already edit various h.264 formats from a range of cameras, the issue isn't the format but the container.


Just because it can handle h264 out of a camera doesn't necessarily mean it will work just fine with other encodes. I would still suggest converting to lossless rather than just re-muxing into mp4. Never assume that it will work perfectly because there's a lot more to consider than just the codec being used.
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Re: MKV for adobe premiere pro CS5

Postby DJ_Izumi » Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:09 pm

Pwolf wrote:Just because it can handle h264 out of a camera doesn't necessarily mean it will work just fine with other encodes. I would still suggest converting to lossless rather than just re-muxing into mp4. Never assume that it will work perfectly because there's a lot more to consider than just the codec being used.


Well then, let's put this to a practical test shall we? I just ripped a the h.264 stream from a 1080p 8bit Blu-Ray sourced fansub and tossed it into Premiere CS5 64bit. Actually, it seeks pretty nicely, searches in reverse, frame by frame, jumps from point to point as I toss short cuts from parts of the episode into random order in my timeline.

A 10bit encode doesn't work, but that's hardly a suprise is it?

I understand that this is old dogma 'TRANSCODE TO LOSSLESS FIRST OR DEMONS WILL EAT PREMIERE' but the industry of video editing has evolved a lot since then. It's no longer software that was designed for DV streams, MPEG-2 and other 'Rapid Seek' friendly formats. The AVCHD streams that come out of cameras that support that are streams that are directly compatible with the majority of Blu-Ray players on disc or other storage mediums. We're no longer dealing with DivX hacked into an AVI container, causing B-Frame decoder lag, while Premiere 6.5 is programmed to expect things like DV, MPEG-2 or *shudder* Indeo. It's 2012, we're filming and editing in 1080p AVC and MPEG-2 and there are a other formats a lot meaner than those and in a lot higher resolution, but it still works.

The technology of video editing has evolved. Maybe it's time that the dogma of AMV editing evolved with it?

Note: This was done on an Intel i5-2500k overclocked from 3.3ghz to 4.4ghz, in comparison, my i5-2410M based laptop would probably have just screamed in bloody pain.
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Re: MKV for adobe premiere pro CS5

Postby Pwolf » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:44 pm

DJ_Izumi wrote:I understand that this is old dogma 'TRANSCODE TO LOSSLESS FIRST OR DEMONS WILL EAT PREMIERE' but the industry of video editing has evolved a lot since then.


And that's not what I said. In fact you gave a perfect example why you shouldn't assume it will work:

DJ_Izumi wrote:A 10bit encode doesn't work, but that's hardly a suprise is it?
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Re: MKV for adobe premiere pro CS5

Postby mirkosp » Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:03 pm

Hey, perhaps I should start using hours long AVC encodes with a single keyframes as a source, they will load, so it's fine!

But seriously, just because something works doesn't mean it's optimal. Using lossy non intra-only sources to edit is not fast, nor reliable, and I don't see what's the point in making the editing experience a slow and painful one when you could just load blazingly fast utvideo clips and just enjoy the smooth editing afterwords. But hey, not everybody can be a pitcher, so I ain't stopping who likes it the other way. :bear:
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Re: MKV for adobe premiere pro CS5

Postby DJ_Izumi » Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:15 pm

mirkosp wrote:Hey, perhaps I should start using hours long AVC encodes with a single keyframes as a source, they will load, so it's fine!

But seriously, just because something works doesn't mean it's optimal. Using lossy non intra-only sources to edit is not fast, nor reliable, and I don't see what's the point in making the editing experience a slow and painful one when you could just load blazingly fast utvideo clips and just enjoy the smooth editing afterwords. But hey, not everybody can be a pitcher, so I ain't stopping who likes it the other way. :bear:


Actually, it is fast. I'm actually able to seek without major difficulty, or, for the sake of comparison, it's no slower than trying to get the PC to chew through the obscene ammount of data needed to seek through 1920x1080 24fps Lagarith Lossless. That's a LOT of I/O to put through the system afterall, and excluding SSDs, CPU power for decoding has advanced a lot farther than access time on hard drives. I'd say that both experiences are about equal on this box. It's not even putting the CPU past 50% load as I seek and it randomly pulls of frames.

Honestly, have any of you actually sat down and put this to the test? As you dismiss it, have any of you actually TRIED IT? I mean, tried it with Premiere CS5.5, and not that you tried it years ago in the past and assumed the software hasn't evolved?

And... How is it not 'reliable'?
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Re: MKV for adobe premiere pro CS5

Postby Pwolf » Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:20 pm

DJ_Izumi wrote:Honestly, have any of you actually sat down and put this to the test? As you dismiss it, have any of you actually TRIED IT?


Yes. CS5.
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Re: MKV for adobe premiere pro CS5

Postby DJ_Izumi » Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:23 pm

Pwolf wrote:
DJ_Izumi wrote:Yes. CS5.


And what were your results? (Other than the obvious 10bit thing. I was actually gonna be pretty shocked if 10bit worked.) Because I'm actually fairly suprised with how smoothly this is editing on this box.
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Re: MKV for adobe premiere pro CS5

Postby mirkosp » Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:24 pm

I laugh at you for using lagarith and not utvideo as a lossless codec for editing. Just as much as editing software evolves, so do lossless codecs. Feel free to compare yourself how having 6 1280x720 (no 1080p editing, this is an AMV site, and aside for ghibli movies and the likes 1080p anime are just upscaled from 720p to begin with) avc clips overlayed on each other on 6 tracks, and then try the same deal with 6 1280x720 utvideo clips (whatever predictor you prefer), then come back here saying that it's just as fast. Really, I wanna see that. Oh, and no cheating. Don't make those avc encodes intra-only or with otherwise editing-optimized settings, that defies the purpose (since it's going to be a valid editing choice anyway, but it's not what you get out of the box with fansubs or BDs).

And please, as soon as you start enabling advanced features in the avc encode, the decoder is gonna fall short because those features were clearly thought for saving space during playback and not for faster than realtime editing. AVC is a lucky format since it specifies how it should be decoded too, but as soon as you wind up loading mpeg-2 or mpeg-4 asp (and maybe vc-1 too, but don't count my word on that because I'm not sure on this one format) encodes you could be getting different looks from a moment to the other since the formats don't specify a bit precise decode so it's all left up to decoders implementations, which might decode differently from what you expect. I don't call that reliable.
You can't just expect any encode to be awesome for editing, especially if it's a fansub encode, which is clearly thought for playback and limiting the required storage space.

And by the way, industry standard is editing with ProRes, so we're talking 10bit 4:2:2, really.
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Re: MKV for adobe premiere pro CS5

Postby DJ_Izumi » Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:26 pm

mirkosp wrote:Feel free to compare yourself how having 6 1280x720 (no 1080p editing, this is an AMV site, and aside for ghibli movies and the likes 1080p anime are just upscaled from 720p to begin with) avc clips overlayed on each other on 6 tracks, and then try the same deal with 6 1280x720 utvideo clips (whatever predictor you prefer), then come back here saying that it's just as fast. Really, I wanna see that. Oh, and no cheating. Don't make those avc encodes intra-only or with otherwise editing-optimized settings, that defies the purpose (since it's going to be a valid editing choice anyway, but it's not what you get out of the box with fansubs or BDs).


I think I'll stick with 1080p, you seem a tad ignorant on the issue of 1080p vs 720p. While certianly not all, a lot of anime is natively rendered out at 1080p. Though for there's almost no 1080p broadcast systems, they're generally 720p or 1080i, so most material is broadcast from a 720p source and upscaled to 1080i. So while television ripped fansubs are capped at 720p, the BDrips can be 1080p, assuming they are rendered out at 1080p. It's certianly not absolute though, I mean hey, FMA: Brotherhood was only rendered at 540p for some silly reason. Then there's all that lovely 90's anime that was mastered on 35mm film, those make for beautiful 1080p transfers. Have you checked out the Lain BDs? If it wasn't for the sake that it was 4:3, you'd think it was animated just this year. It's just a glorious transfer.

Anyway, here you go, this is using Coalgirl's 1080p Blu-Ray of Kanon, the streams were pulled out of the MKVs without any modification, so this is pretty representive of 'any ol' fansub' since it is just that, any ol' fansub. The top five layers are at 15% opacity while the bottom is at 100%, to ensure all six streams need to be rendered simultaniously. There's a 98% CPU spike that you can see the moment I press play on my preview, but it drops and then playback continues with an average of 50%. This is probably it trying to quickly find the last I frame before the start points so it can deliver the first request frame on each track. Though you can see that through the graph yourself.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh10 ... /AVCx6.jpg

And please, as soon as you start enabling advanced features in the avc encode, the decoder is gonna fall short because those features were clearly thought for saving space during playback and not for faster than realtime editing. AVC is a lucky format since it specifies how it should be decoded too, but as soon as you wind up loading mpeg-2 or mpeg-4 asp (and maybe vc-1 too, but don't count my word on that because I'm not sure on this one format) encodes you could be getting different looks from a moment to the other since the formats don't specify a bit precise decode so it's all left up to decoders implementations, which might decode differently from what you expect. I don't call that reliable.
You can't just expect any encode to be awesome for editing, especially if it's a fansub encode, which is clearly thought for playback and limiting the required storage space.

mirkosp wrote:And by the way, industry standard is editing with ProRes, so we're talking 10bit 4:2:2, really.


Pro-Res isn't used by any cameras however, so to say it's industry standard' for editing is kinda... Wrong. You're gonna edit AVCHD with pro-sumer cameras. NXCAM on low range professional cameras ($5000~) NXCAM is still 4:2:0 AVC, just in a much more flexable standard. XDCAM, MPEG-2 4:2:2, which you'll see in cameras in a 20k-35k range. You're also forgetting DNxHD, which is stock standard on Avid platforms. While Adobe is pro and Apple was once pro, Avid's stuff is still considdered top tier. I've used ProRes though, but only when capturing from an AJA IOHD box. Fun box to play with, BTW. ProRes is most often used for offline proxies, which you'd use since directly editing something like REDCODE RAW would be exceptionally demanding, but just about every camera below the cinema level uses formats that you can edit directly on any decent box.
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