Requesting some demystification...

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Re: Requesting some demystification...

Postby Gaelstrom » Thu May 06, 2010 4:43 am

Okay, well, I have the dgdecode.dll in the correct folder as you mentioned. So I guess I'll just start from scratch really: where should I begin? I have this footage, a VOB file still if necessary. I know it's tedious, and I apologize, but would you be willing to walk me through how to get this VOB deinterlaced? I mean the confusion seems to that I just don't understand when/how AVISynth works. I know that it can be done in text files or whatever but I guess my issue is there are so MANY different options that I just don't get what is the more appropriate one.

So from VOB to DeInterlaced footage, what can I do to make this a streamlined process? It's the Ghost in the Shell Special Edition movie BTW if that's at all important to know. I can't quite tell what form of interlaced footage it has.
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Re: Requesting some demystification...

Postby Mister Hatt » Thu May 06, 2010 5:09 am

Avisynth is a scripting language for manipulating raw video frames. It uses a source plugin to create the frames, then it will do various operations to it depending on what functions you use, much like a programming language, and then it outputs the frames in sequence to a VFW interface, which almost any VFW based application can use, be it a media player like WMP, or a video editor like VirtualDub. If a program uses VFW, it will read the avs file as if it was any other video file, because it connects to VFW and VFW knows what to do with it already. All avs files are just text, and AvsP is just a text editor designed to make writing them easier, it has syntax highlighting and a little display window down the bottom to preview stuff in, although personally I have a lot of dislike for the program.

I have no idea what the R1 for GITS was like so I can't really tell you, you'd have to check it out yourself. Here is a basic process for the indexing and avs creation though:

Open DGIndex. Open your VOB files in it. Then hit file -> save project. The file will index and in the display panel that pops up, it will tell you if your content is FILM or NTSC, and it will give a percentage. I'm just going to assume it's the standard fully telecined footage but if it isn't you would need to do different things.

Once you have your d2v file done, you can open your favourite text editor and start writing your avs file:
DGDecode_Mpeg2Source("whatever you called your d2v file.d2v")
TFM(mode=1,pp=5,slow=2,micmatching=2,clip2=TDeint(mode=2,type=3,edeint=nnedi2(),emask=TMM())).TDecimate()
#do your cropping/resizing/postprocessing here. You can trim here too, or do the trimming before the TFM line if you like

Save that as a plaintext file with the extension .avs in the same folder as your d2v file, and then you can open it in VirtualDub. For the above string, you need dgdecode.dll, tivtc.dll, tdeint.dll, nnedi2.dll, and tmm.dll, however you can really leave out the edeint/emask stuff if the source is decent enough and/or they give you problems or are hard to find. Even the clip2 bit is optional.
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Re: Requesting some demystification...

Postby Gaelstrom » Thu May 06, 2010 5:57 am

All right, I uninstalled and installed the up-to-date version of AVISynth from the pack, as well as the AVSPluginPack. Just to get things cleared. That made me need to install the new DGIndex, but in the end, I got the text-turned-AVS file into VirtualDubMod (still usin' mod).

Unfortunately that didn't take care of the interlacing, and I will wholeheartedly admit... I don't understand anything of that line of code you did. I'll try to use the guide's descriptions of the scripts now that they're at least opening in VDM, but since your version uses the Telecine method, I'll have to assume this one may be hybrid. I need some sleep though, I'll be back tomorrow if I have any issues.

I think I understand a bit more of what and why now though. I am certain I was screwing up somewhere, but hopefully knowing a correct way now will make this not happen again.

Thanks a lot for your time and help, all of you. For now I'm going to attempt to see if I can figure out this part myself so it remains in my mind longer :D
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Re: Requesting some demystification...

Postby Mister Hatt » Thu May 06, 2010 7:57 am

Stop using mod. I'm not going to give a good reason for it other than "myself and the few other people who know their stuff will refuse to help vdubmod users."

What do you mean it doesn't take care of the interlacing, is the entire clip bad now, or just parts of it? I HIGHLY doubt it's hybrid, more likely it's just VFR. What did DGIndex say in the log file? 99% FILM or what?
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Re: Requesting some demystification...

Postby Gaelstrom » Thu May 06, 2010 3:58 pm

I went ahead and installed VirtualDub as you suggested. Only real reason I wasn't installing anything more than I needed was the guide suggested never to change AMVApp versions during a project, but I just considered I hadn't done anything particularly specific yet.

Anyway, the footage was still interlaced, it just seemed a little better in some way. But either way I went ahead and just used AMVIVTC(mode=1) to try it out and that took care of it. There is a little bit of a minuscule jitter that shows up here and there among single frames, but nothing bad. I'm not sure if it's something that can be handled with any more scripts, but it's not particularly necessary as it's barely noticeable. If you have any ideas what would be happening there I'd like to hear them, but it's not particularly important I would think.

What was the intent with all the more complex stuff you had me use before the initial guide's version? I didn't recognize most of that code from the guide, I'm just curious.
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Re: Requesting some demystification...

Postby Athena » Thu May 06, 2010 6:44 pm

Gaelstrom wrote:I went ahead and installed VirtualDub as you suggested. Only real reason I wasn't installing anything more than I needed was the guide suggested never to change AMVApp versions during a project, but I just considered I hadn't done anything particularly specific yet.


It's apparently not true. I had the same reaction at first to Mirkosp/MisterHatt on this very subject. "But I have projects from five years ago still using AMVapp 2.1."

"It doesn't matter.

"Oh."

Anyway, the footage was still interlaced, it just seemed a little better in some way. But either way I went ahead and just used AMVIVTC(mode=1) to try it out and that took care of it. There is a little bit of a minuscule jitter that shows up here and there among single frames, but nothing bad. I'm not sure if it's something that can be handled with any more scripts, but it's not particularly necessary as it's barely noticeable. If you have any ideas what would be happening there I'd like to hear them, but it's not particularly important I would think.

What was the intent with all the more complex stuff you had me use before the initial guide's version? I didn't recognize most of that code from the guide, I'm just curious.


MisterHatt is a professional encoder and knows a ton of shit above and beyond what is in the guides. His intent was to help you out (because it was very late where I was, and I was tired, and wanted to go take a nap). If he is in a good mood, he can probably help refine what you have working now. Otherwise Mirkosp can. I myself am mostly a point man and getting your basic scripts running, especially for the mac editors, but I am far outclassed by others when it comes to individual, up to date commands.
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Re: Requesting some demystification...

Postby Mister Hatt » Fri May 07, 2010 12:58 am

It was late for me when I wrote that Kio, my timezone is only an hour behind yours.

As far as script complication goes, what I suggested was far less intense than AMVIVTC. AMVIVTC is, iirc, just a renamed AnimeIVTC with a few minor changes, and is a long complicated script that is meant to automagically figure out what sort of content you have. The line I provided however is designed specifically for poorly encoded pure-telecine footage. I didn't know what you had and it might not have been appropriate, but as it's a movie I'll guess that it's either VFR in which case lol at AMVIVTC, or it has shifting patterns or some hybrid material, R1 movie DVDs liked to do stuff like that a few years ago. I don't think my line can be refined further to be more correct without having seen what kind of content you have, although that stuff with clip2 and emask/edeint would prevent all the minor jitter you're getting if the field matching was correct, which it seems like it isn't. If you could provide a screenshot or several of what you mean by it still being interlaced, maybe I can hazard a guess, but if you're happy with the AMVIVTC output, then leave it be.
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Re: Requesting some demystification...

Postby Athena » Fri May 07, 2010 1:08 am

Mister Hatt wrote:It was late for me when I wrote that Kio, my timezone is only an hour behind yours.


derp derp

I didn't realise that.
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Re: Requesting some demystification...

Postby mirkosp » Fri May 07, 2010 5:06 am

Mister Hatt wrote:AMVIVTC is, iirc, just a renamed AnimeIVTC with a few minor changes


Far from that. It's just a few "presets" for tfm + tdecimate, really.
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Re: Requesting some demystification...

Postby Mister Hatt » Fri May 07, 2010 4:35 pm

Orly? Even worse, although not as adaptive I guess. What exactly is mode1 in it?
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Re: Requesting some demystification...

Postby Mister Hatt » Fri May 07, 2010 4:49 pm

Checked up on that script (thanks pwolf), and... wow, yeah. That's just ugly. Far from adaptive, I can't really see how your source would be 'interlaced' after using my line but not after AMVIVTC mode=1, which is essentially the same thing but less refined and with a less effective decombing algorithm. Provide a screenshot of the comparison if you can.
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Re: Requesting some demystification...

Postby Gaelstrom » Fri May 07, 2010 6:40 pm

I'm sorry, I already overwrote it with the new footage (space problems), but I can basically describe it as what I glanced at before deciding it hadn't worked was basically the interlacing around the mouth movements that I was looking for had turned to skin color rather than being darker, almost like a reversal. I know that doesn't help much, but I probably misinterpreted what was happening. All I know is it wasn't much of an improvement if at all, so I just wrote it off as it hadn't worked and tried something else.

I don't think you misdirected me or anything, stranger stuff has happened in my work. I work in 3D Animation a lot and many times things that should work don't and something simple solves everything, I just can't seem to understand the programming side of anything. Annoys the hell out me that my mind doesn't wrap around it. Granted it's not my focus, so I haven't truly put my all into programming before, but that's also because I know it's something I just don't like doing, so... :(
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Re: Requesting some demystification...

Postby Mister Hatt » Sat May 08, 2010 3:29 am

Sounds like your field matching order was off is all, that or pp was doing weird things.
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