I just want a simple, cheap encoder for the PC. . .

This forum is for questions and discussion of all the aspects of handling your footage. If you have questions about capturing/ripping footage, AviSynth, or compression/encoding/converting, look here.

I just want a simple, cheap encoder for the PC. . .

Postby elvirasweeney » Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:00 pm

I'm still kind of a newbie, but I've been making fan videos on my Mac, with reasonably good results, using Final Cut Pro, Quicktime Pro, Compressor, and sometimes MPEG Streamclip. The thing I like most about these apps is that they allow you to change frame size (though Streamclip has limitations here), crop black letterbox borders, deinterlace, downsize with good quality, and even edit brightness, contrast, etc.

Anyway, I'm having a hard time finding suitably cheap, simple, uncomplicated compression apps on the PC side. I want to use them on my own PC, but also I want to be able to tell newbie first-time fan vidders about some easy, cheap programs they can try. The more sophisticated compression techniques (which I'm still learning, and after all, I'm mostly a Mac vidder) will be something they'll learn as they progress.

I tried River Past's Video Cleaner and I like it well enough, but it doesn't deinterlace and it doesn't resize down well. I've tried SUPER, but again, no custom frame sizes, and the audio "drifts" (just a tiny bit) for me. There are a few other apps which are free or almost free, and sometimes they work okay, but there's always a problem. Some of the apps are too futzy or the interface is not simple enough for a newbie.

I have to think that there's something better out there that I'm missing. Please help! And again, what I'm looking for is free or cheap (under $30), custom frame sizes, good downscaling, deinterlace, decent choice of codecs, trimming letterbox (if possible). Where do I find such an app?

Thank you so much in advance.
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Postby Scintilla » Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:13 pm

... have you read the guides, specifically <a href="/guides/avtech">the A/V guide</a>? The methods it illustrates make extensive use of VirtualDubMod, an excellent free encoder that most people around here seem to use.
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Postby Kariudo » Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:20 pm

IIRC, VirtualDub(/mod) is only for Windows
Avidemux is supposed to be comparable to Vdub but it can be used cross-platfrom

yes I know that the tilte says for PC...and that Mac is not a PC
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Postby elvirasweeney » Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:35 pm

Thanks for the link to Avidemux, Kariudo! I downloaded it but for some reason it's not happy with my Mac . . . Hmmm ... Will try later; it looks promising! :D

Scintilla wrote:... have you read the guides, specifically <a href="/guides/avtech">the A/V guide</a>? The methods it illustrates make extensive use of VirtualDubMod, an excellent free encoder that most people around here seem to use.


Scintilla, yes, I have read the A/V Guide—it isn't translating over well for the Mac for me. Or maybe I'm just not dedicated enough! ;) I'm pretty happy with my current system of exporting uncompressed QT file out of Final Cut Pro, and then converting it (using H.264) with either FCP's Compressor app, Quicktime Pro, or Streamclip. I can also export to DivX with QT Pro. Of course I'm sure the quality could be even better, but it's at a decent level for now.

The issue isn't really the Mac question, but a "newbie friendly" PC question. I have been trying to encourage other newbie PC vidders to do something better than your standard export-out-of-Windows-Movie-Maker using some dreadful WMV export. I fear that VirtualDub is not quite newbie-friendly enough for some of them. So I'm trying to find something else that's at least a step up from what they're currently using. (Later on they can tackle VirtualDub Mod.) I have done some experiments with exporting (for instance) a DV AVI file from Windows Movie Maker, and have gotten decent results using MPEG Streamclip on the PC. But I find myself porting the WMM AVI file over to my Mac to get an serious work done, because my PC apps just aren't cutting it.

If Quicktime Pro worked as well on the PC as it does on the Mac, I'd recommend that in a heartbeat. But the Windows version of QT Pro is a mere shadow of what the Mac version is. (Why that is, I cannot say. Perhaps I'm not configuring it right.) The Windows version won't open all the file types that the Mac can—it won't export to DivX, etc. etc.

To put this another way, I'm looking for a "dumbed down" not-as-good-as-VirtualDub but okay-to-get-started app for Windows-based vidding newbies. So far, only MPEG Streamclip comes close to providing all that I'm looking for. River Past's video cleaner is pretty decent, but with some deficiencies. SUPER has problems with not enough customizable frame sizes (as well as a few other things). And so forth and so on.

Thanks so much for your input. I know that there's a lot I need to learn! :)
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Postby Kariudo » Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:47 pm

did you get the mac OSX version from this site?

also, virtualdub(/Mod) should be fairly easy for noobs to pick up (I think)
how to use vdub
how to encode using xvid and vdubmod
you also might find the virtualdubmod site to be helpful
http://virtualdubmod.sourceforge.net/
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Postby elvirasweeney » Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:12 pm

Kariudo wrote:did you get the mac OSX version from this site?

Yes, that's the place! I don't know what the problem is—it just won't open.

also, virtualdub(/Mod) should be fairly easy for noobs to pick up (I think)
how to use vdub

That's a l-o-o-o-o-ng page for a newbie who barely knows what "codec" means! :lol: It's a great guide, no mistake, but I fear that some people need to take baby steps. A few boxes to tick, and few numbers to fill in, press "GO" and they're done. That's what I'm hoping to find. (Kind of like QT Pro.)

Is there anything like that, or am I just kidding myself? (And thanks again for the links—will pass them along.)
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Postby Melanchthon » Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:37 pm

elvirasweeney wrote:That's a l-o-o-o-o-ng page for a newbie who barely knows what "codec" means! :lol: It's a great guide, no mistake, but I fear that some people need to take baby steps. A few boxes to tick, and few numbers to fill in, press "GO" and they're done. That's what I'm hoping to find. (Kind of like QT Pro.)

Hmm, reading through that page, it does go into a lot of detail fairly quickly, and not all of it is essential (Job Control is useful, but not really required at first). Unfortunately, VDM/AviSynth is the most technical part of the process, and the closest you're going to get to ticking and filling in boxes is when you'repicking a codec and filename for the output. :wink:

That guide is being updated, but I don't know how much the VirtualDubMod pages are going to change.
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Postby Scintilla » Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:14 am

elvirasweeney wrote:The issue isn't really the Mac question, but a "newbie friendly" PC question. I have been trying to encourage other newbie PC vidders to do something better than your standard export-out-of-Windows-Movie-Maker using some dreadful WMV export. I fear that VirtualDub is not quite newbie-friendly enough for some of them. So I'm trying to find something else that's at least a step up from what they're currently using. (Later on they can tackle VirtualDub Mod.) I have done some experiments with exporting (for instance) a DV AVI file from Windows Movie Maker, and have gotten decent results using MPEG Streamclip on the PC. But I find myself porting the WMM AVI file over to my Mac to get an serious work done, because my PC apps just aren't cutting it.

If Quicktime Pro worked as well on the PC as it does on the Mac, I'd recommend that in a heartbeat. But the Windows version of QT Pro is a mere shadow of what the Mac version is. (Why that is, I cannot say. Perhaps I'm not configuring it right.) The Windows version won't open all the file types that the Mac can—it won't export to DivX, etc. etc.

To put this another way, I'm looking for a "dumbed down" not-as-good-as-VirtualDub but okay-to-get-started app for Windows-based vidding newbies. So far, only MPEG Streamclip comes close to providing all that I'm looking for. River Past's video cleaner is pretty decent, but with some deficiencies. SUPER has problems with not enough customizable frame sizes (as well as a few other things). And so forth and so on.

I haven't actually USED it in a while, but in that case, you might want to look into http://www.eo-video.com

I remember it being fairly straightforward and, perhaps more importantly, able to handle almost any kind of input video (seemingly).
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Postby trythil » Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:41 am

elvirasweeney wrote:Thanks for the link to Avidemux, Kariudo! I downloaded it but for some reason it's not happy with my Mac . . . Hmmm ... Will try later; it looks promising! :D


avidemux isn't necessarily more "user-friendly" than VirtualDub(Mod) is. In some ways it's less friendly -- lots more widgets on the front screen may make it more overwhelming.

I'll let you decide that for yourself, though.

As for possibilities for why the OS X build of avidemux isn't working: avidemux is a GTK+ app that was compiled using a version of GTK+ using X11. As such, an X Window System server is necessary; if you don't have one, avidemux will not function.

X servers are available on the OS X Tiger CD, somewhere on Apple's website, and in Fink.
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̊̒̒̌ͩ̅͏̷̷̳͔̻͕͉̖̲̰̙̪̟͚⃧̓̀̌ͫ҉̴̷̵̡̢͓̝̪̣͈̥̲̫̬̺̭͚̝̟̬̻̫͙̹̖͖͕̤͚̱̣̮̞̣̹⃧͒̉ͯ̌͌ͭ̀⃧̐̆͛̆⃧͂ͭͨ̈́ͪ̂̒͛͊̿̊ͭ̌́͜͝͝ͅͅ͏̸͔̳̪̦̰͙̬̣͙̳͉̩̟͔̯̗̗̩̭̯̰͕⃧ͧ̆͌͂ͬͧ̃ͥ̿ͧ̍ͮ͛̊̍͂⃧͑͗̅ͩͮͨ̔̀͐̒̿͒̎̄̊̔̋ͬ͜҉̷̡̢̡͍͔̣̲͉͚̭͙̪̞͇̱͈̹̯̝̭̟̝⃧͒̑ͫ̆̌̾ͣ͂ͮ̏͗̂̊̾̐ͤ͂͠͏̷̡̱̹̙͎̙̞̰̞̲̩̩̭͇̹̖̦̖̪͚͓͔̜̤͖͉͚͕̳̩͇̰⃧͂ͥͧ̋̐b̔̍̄ͮ̿̆͌͒̀ͯ͒͆͋͑̿̊̕͠͞҉͏͇̝̪̼̦̻̜̟̬̼̬͍̥̞̼̮̯⃧ͦͮ̊̒ͮ̿ͭ̃ͮͬ⃧̋͂͗ͫ͐̌̀̐̈́̓̒̍͢ͅ҉̷̵̷̢̨͎͙̟̦͖͚̲̻̲̦̱̜̘͓̫̞̹͙̣̗̖̭̹̫̺̻͎⃧ͨ͊͗̉̑ͫ̅̓ͣ̌ͧ̄̆̎̐̑ͤͣ̀⃧ͪ͑̾̈́⃧ͮ̍̓̏̊̆̀ͯͮ̍̂̆̏̕͜͡͡ͅͅ҉̹̜̱̞͓̤̰̙̮̥͓̺⃧̑̄ͫͭ̑҉̛҉̵̛̗̙̦̰͇̼̭͕̩̥͓̲͕̦̥͍̤̤͔̯̬̮͉͚͖⃧ͩ̅ͧͪ⃧́̏͗̅̏̀́͗ͧͤ̑͘̚͘͝҉͟͏͚͍͈̩̤̼̞̰̰̹̥̟l̏̔̑͆҉̛́͏̷̸̢̨̨̛̛̻͚͕̭̘͚͔̮̼̮̲̳̱̠̪͍̦͕̝̘̗̯̲͕̤̱̗̖̳̖̬̫̦̬̥̦͙̝̰̩̳͚͈̬̞̠̗̪̩̙̼̺͖͚͇͚⃧̅̏͊͆̂̀⃧͌́̇͊̏͑̃ͥ̀⃧̈̈́ͩͦͨ⃧ͦ͆̎ͭͭ̋ͧ́⃧̒ͫ̿̿ͭ̿͂̕͢͜͜͟͠͡ͅͅ҉̸̴̸̧̧̡̞̱̜͇̘͓͖͚̻͈̣̘͉̟̼͉̫̜̫͖̬͓̻͓⃧̎͂ͩ̒ͧ͒̈ͤͬ̔̓̅̀⃧ͩ͆ͤ̈͋̓ͤ̓͂̿ͯͮ͝ͅ҉̧̹͖̮̺̪̹̦̺͈͇̪̹̻͈̲̹͇̮⃧̊͋̈́͗ͦ̓̌̅҉̜͍̳̝̺̖͈͔̘̗̙̻͙̣͔͖̟̕͢o̸̡̡̢̥͓̙̺̘̝̯̜̯͈̥͈̳̗̘͈̘͓͚̱̜͍̣̝̬̺͔̙͙̼̙̤͍͖̞̠̻̝̳̣͓̤͔̣̻̫̯͉̜̻̗̙̤̯̜͚̙͓͉̝̮̗̣̝̫̗̭ͭ̔̋ͤͥ⃧̋ͮͦͮ⃧ͣ̌̉̀͗͆̎̓̈́ͦ͊⃧ͧ͑͂̍ͨ͆ͩ́⃧ͫͮͨͩ̐ͫ͋̂͌̀̀̂̚̕͢͜͢͞͝͠҉̷̶҉̴̶̧̢̙̯̪̙͎͉̬͖̘̺̫⃧ͨ͑̃͐̀́ͩ⃧ͨͩ̈́̈ͤ̉́̏͑̓̍͋͋̈́̑̈́̋͢͟͜͡ͅ͏̵̷̨̡̛̻͍͚̠̳̮̪̭̦̳̭̞̣̤͚̭̮̰̰͉͙̼͙̤͔͍͔̖̩͙̭̺͕͓⃧̈́̃ͧ̾ͬͥ͂̉̉͗̅͐͒⃧̽͌ͭ̀͘͞ͅç̵̞̳̣̟̹̬̣͇̖̘̙̺͎̳̦̥̭̦̟̰͔̲̣͓̙̩̦̤̬̆̊ͭ̌̀⃧ͨ̓̌ͬ̊ͪ̌̀⃧̀ͩ̔̓̿ͨͫ̊̽͡҉̷̛͓͎̭̝̼̜̫̘́⃧̎̆ͮ̓̏̅ͥ̀̄͂̎̏̏⃧̓͆͐ͫ̅̋͑̄̂͊ͩ̈́ͬ̕̕͟ͅ͏҉̶̢͍̣͔̙̼̩̙̫̭̬̥͙̫̱̙̻͉̟̣͕̥̜̯̝͉̙̥͓̻̻͍̳͈̳̦̤̦̤̘͈̖̳̦⃧̏̀͗̈̔ͫ̓̆̿͆̀̽̐̓͊̆⃧ͤ̎̈͑̀̒ͣ̋̉̉̌̃ͨ̃͋ͣ⃧̊̀ͩ̃̐͊̚͘͟͡͡ͅͅ҉̨̦̭̱͎̼͙̜̩̮̤̠͚͓̬̮͖̪⃧ͣ͆̐ͫ̅ͨ͗ͣ̋͏̷̡̺̗̮̥̩͍͈̦̩͖̱͚̺̼̭̗́k̴̷̷̶̵̷̛͖͙̜̞̼͔̘̙͓̙̝̰̳̮͉̲̮̩̬̠̘̟͓̩͇̣̫͇̗̤͇̟̮͖̫̗͓̺̬̱̳͔͔̜̙̙͉̾̽͐̐̐͆̄ͣ̇̋̈́̇ͫ́͗⃧ͥͪͣ͒̾ͦ͂⃧̿̃͐̉͑̓ͭ̽̂ͧ̽̊́᷉͒ͥ͗̈́⃧̽̑̑̒͂̾̌ͪͦ̍́̓̽͛ͯ̓̕̚͟ͅ͏̷͈̰̟̬̙͓͖̳̻̬͖̣͓̹͙̙͚̝̮̱̮̟͉⃧ͪ̑̒̀̀⃧ͣ̿̓̽̚͠ͅ҉̷̶̶̢̡̢̢͙̙̯̱̹̮̪̜̮̰̙͖̩̳͇̬͓͓̣̰̮̙̘̣̪̳̖̱⃧͋̓͗̃̎͊ͨ̊̎̍̓ͩ̀̔͆̓͋͛́⃧́͛͗ͪ͡͠͝ͅͅ҉̙̙̤̻̙̺̬̟̜̪̲͖̩̜̣̯̗̗͍̭̣̮͕̺͉̩̞̼͔̬̦̖̯⃧̿͐̒̀ͨ̇͐ͥ̓ͬ̑̅̃̑͢͢ ̡̡̛̟̝̬͙̩̹̻̟̱̒ͫ͆̽͛ͨ͊͌ͤ̽⃧ͤ̄̉̅ͧ̇͗ͪ͛͑͗̆̂̕͟͞҉̸̵͉̭͓̹̯̮̝͚̙̼̜̘̰̝̖͔̮̝̱͈̭͚͚̠̜̗̱͚̝̣̩͓⃧ͬ̋̊͋̆́ͨͯͫ̐͛⃧ͩ̾ͤ̃̄͂̊̿̐́́⃧ͥͥ̐͋̉̔̾̚̕͜͞͞͡ͅ͏̴̵̵̡̢̨̛̝̜̜͔̘̯͍͔͖̲̻͎̥̺͔͙͍̲̤͓̘̘̱̥̻̳̜͉̣⃧ͯ̅͐͗̊⃧ͧͯ̈⃧̽͌ͦͭ̊̑̈́̿͆ͣ̐ͮͤͧ̆̑̈̾̑̚̕͜͞҉̢̢̢̧̨̳͓̬̮̰̥̱̞̜̻̮̤͕͚̥̼̝̹̫̤̣͍⃧̽̒͐ͯ̍͋͑ͬ̅̈͗̈́̈́͑́̕͠o̶ͦͪͫ̾̆ͬ͋ͭ͏̵̢̟͕̮̣̭̩͉̗͍̠͍̱̠̜̭̝̀⃧ͩͨ̓ͨ͋͌̑͐̎ͨͭͦ͠҉̷̛͈͉̳̦̞̯̟͙̫̥̤̤̬̹̜̦̺̪͔͈̮̳̠̬̥̗⃧ͭ́ͮͮ͂ͦͫ͊ͤ̾̓ͯͧ̒ͩͧ̈̀⃧ͫͪ̏̎̇́̈́̐ͪ̔ͩ̽̿̀⃧̒ͦͥ͋ͮ̿͑̅́̚̕͢͞ͅ҉̷̵̧̨̨̡̢̛͇̰̠̩̯̯͙͈̱̙̜̥̟͚̖̣̘̖̭͍̺̖͚̙̣̠͖͓͖̯̰̰̜̲̫͖̣͖̫̗̩̭̫̪̗̩͇̦̳̼̯̥͓̙̱͈̹̹͍̹̠̗̼̙͉͔̳᷅͐͒̐̎ͥ́͑̏ͭ͋́͂̀⃧ͧ͗̅̌̊͗͌⃧ͧ̓̆̊͆ͧ̎̓⃧͌ͨ̀̅̃̐̆̄̈̎ͫͮ⃧͐̊ͮ͐̄̏ͧ́̕͘̚̚̚͜͝͠͠ͅͅͅf̶̶̵̶͕̤̲̗͙̮͍̣̟̤͍͇͉͖̮̻͕̱̖͉̹͋̋̃̄́͒́⃧ͣ͛ͩ͗ͣ̆ͬ͛͑̋̌ͫ͛́⃧̈̈ͯ̓᷁͊́͋̈͘͟͝ͅ͏̶̴̶̴̴̶̷̴̡̨̢̨̛̛̯̮̝͍̟̭͓̳̥͔͕̝̳̭̬͍̞͔͚̗̥͙̫̭̣̳̱̭͔̠͙̱͎̹̻̮͇͙̗̣̩̙͎͕͚̭̞̝̩̘̩͖̯͖̞̺͙̻̺̻̣͚̯̱̖̠̰̘͎⃧̃̿͊͌ͤ̍͒ͥͫͬ́ͩ̏͋̽̍̂⃧͐̄̾ͬͫͩ̃ͨ̀̽̔̾̂̔ͥ⃧ͬͤ͋͗͑̇̊ͫͥͣ⃧͊̓́͊̉͋̈́ͭͤ͋ͧͮ̈͗̌⃧͒ͤ̽ͩ⃧̊̓ͦͨ́̚̕̚̕͢͢͜͞͡͝͡͠ͅͅͅͅ ̴̢̡̧̧̨̛̳͉̠̹͚̰͙̺̺̠͉̣͓͚̝̺̤͇̼͔̬̮̬̖̬̰͇̬̭̹̩̤͎̗̖̰̟̦͚͖͉̰̘̪̃ͣ̀͋ͩ͛ͨ⃧̓̔͋͂̂ͧ͊͆̅̇̂ͤ͐ͥ̔͑⃧̍̍̄̒ͣ⃧̌̎͆̓͐͐̐̋̉͋̄ͦ̔́⃧ͯ͒̐̒͋͆̑ͧ̿̓͊ͩ̈̀̚̕̚͢͢͞͠ͅ҉̷̵̸̷̨̧̛̛̥͖̳͖̻̬̭̺̘͔͍͎͈͍̬̼̻̹̹̣͇̗͇̭͙̰̪͖̞̤̠̰̟̗͎̝̥̘͉͉̺͓͍̩̱̗̞͓̳̯̺̦⃧͑ͪ̊̽̒͆̌̃́̇ͭ͆͆̋ͩͨ⃧ͪ̉ͮͯ̎͊̅̿̉̿ͬͭ͗̔⃧͋̀͗͒̌ͨ̽̍̉⃧͛̊̊͛͌̇̄͆ͧͩ͜͟͢͟͝͞͠ͅͅͅt̸̵̷̝̼̤̦̼͔̦̙͎͍̜͙͉̰̙ͯͣ͐ͭͣ͒⃧͆̃ͯͩͥ̓̓̈́̕͡ͅ҉̸̹̹̟̫̰̦͔̦̦⃧̄͊̉̅̚͜͝͏̵̬̳͚͈͕͙͚⃧̆̈̌̿̋ͫ̉͂͂̃̓̄̊͡͏̡̡̛̦̠̰̥̳̩̰̤̼̠̞̮̙̮͙̻̳̪͇̣͚͎̺̬̳̬̥̙̙͕͎̦̼̥̫̙͉̟̖̦̱͇͇͕̩͙̜̥̰̻͕̻̀⃧̾ͣ͌́͂̃̽̀ͧ̋͌̓͗ͣ́⃧̏͛̆̒̂⃧̓̽̊͋͐̎̌͗͌̆́ͩ̌ͩ͐̊̆⃧̄ͦ̀̄̓ͪ̑ͪ̈́ͫ̈̕̚̚͜͜͢͠͡҉̸̢̫͇͎͕̠͇̟̥͎̬͈͈̰̮̬͕̱̙̖͖̯̥̼͉͎͓̘⃧ͬͦͯ̾̾̋̎̎̋ͮ͛ͫ͐e̸̷̷̷̶̢̧̧̛͇̩̻͖̖͖̜̟̹̣̥̭̣̖͖̺̮͓͙̹͓̩͇̜̭̼͉̤̙͓̬̻̰̞̩̹̮ͮͫ͊̒ͧ̐̀̉⃧ͣͫ̂͐ͫ̑͊̓̂͊ͭ̂̆̑⃧̿̽ͯ̐ͭ̉̽ͤͩ⃧͗͑̊͊́ͩͭͩ̓̉ͪ͆⃧ͫ͗̇͆ͬͧ̌͗̉ͧ̐̐̚̚̕̕͟͜͝͡ͅͅͅ͏̵̶̷̸̷̵̢̨̢̡͙̺̳̝̖̳̭͍̬̭̪̦̘͎̩̜͎̯̱̱̦̼̩̝̹̼͔̰̬̘̼̝̹̘̻͙̹̣̦̘̬͍͉̣̼̤̬͇͓̱̘̖̘̺̼⃧ͮ͌ͥ̓̉ͩ͆ͫ͛̃̔⃧̿̒ͩͦ́̽᷃̂ͣͭ̈ͥ͌̒͆ͯͦ̏̀̊ͬ̆̿⃧͛̓͐̎͑ͧ̍⃧̒ͩ̍ͩ̊̌̄ͤ̊̀̚͘͟͟͟͡͝͠ͅͅx̵̸̵̢͕̞̤͔̩͈̩̠̜̗̙̭̟̟ͥ̆ͦ̆͐̔͊̃⃧ͦ́̑ͫ͐ͦ̒̾⃧̾̿̽̂ͭ͐͋͗͗͐͛́̐̕͟͠҉̦̣̺̦͙̹̩̣̯̻̙̳͇̹̹͓͔̼̀⃧̇͒̅̉ͪ̀̍̏̈́̀͗ͦͨͥ͆́͢͠҉̸̨̧̢̥̟̺̝̰͎̗̤̝̻̭͓̼͈̬̟̲̼̜̭͉̰̖̹͍̦͚̭͇̪̘͔͇̙͇͔̮͇̥͔͙̤̘͕̘̬̼̥̖̳̯͇̗͉͇̰̜̪̜̻͔̟̭͖͓͇͎̲⃧̊͌̾̋̿̾͐̄̋̊ͥ̿͒̆̍⃧̂̽̃ͦ̓⃧̉̾ͯ͂͑͊⃧̑̓̍ͫ̅ͦ̇̏̑͊̍̈́̃ͩ͑̈́̾̊⃧͋̇̎ͣ͜͟͠͡͡ͅͅͅt̷̵̷̵̘̼̬͔̝̙̰̪͕͚͇̳̳͕̲͖͕ͪͩ̽̽̐͆ͭ̅̍̏ͥ͋͗͂ͬͫ⃧ͦ̅͂̇̾ͣ́̑̿ͪ͆͂ͯ̐̾̂ͧ͋̌⃧͐ͦ͐̓ͤ̏̎̎̒͘̕͢͡ͅ҉̵̴̶̢̡̭̝̫͙̼̬̱̱͈̠͔̹̗͙̞̳̥̫̪̟͉̻̫̩̗̬̼̞̞̫⃧͑̊̔̌ͬ̂̄ͬ̔̂̋̃ͭ́⃧̄̂͋̒͆ͤ͗͑ͩ̅ͩ⃧̾̎̈́̈́̍̆͒̕͟͢͝͏̶̵̴̸̛̛̛̼̫̮̳̟̯͚͉̹͍̝͇̰̳̪̦̮͕̫̜̺͖͇̖̣̣͔̥̹̯̥͇͕͙̞̜͕̦͉̭̹⃧̊̽̽ͣͩ̅͂ͣͭͮ̆͂͊⃧ͮͭ͂̾̎͒̀⃧ͭ̄͆̄͋͌͑̌͆̆͊̀́̚̚̚͢͞ͅ ̷̸̡̧̡̤̦̰͙̫̥̥͈̞͓̠͉͕̩͖̼̺̤̭̖͉̠̥̙͎̪̞̤̣͍̞̱͙͖̪̂ͮ̍̿ͥ̄͒̽͋̈ͫͭ́̅⃧͛̃̎͆̂ͦ̑̓̿̋⃧̐͐ͮ̊́̍ͧͣ⃧͌̐̈́͊̐͟͝͝҉̷̶̡̧̡̢̨̛͕͎̼̺̯̬̬̹̳̯̭̫̘̫̥̳͉̖͉͓̜̝̙̳̗̪̗̞̳̫̘͈̤̱̩̫̖͔̩̻͍͍̲̞̙͖̮͈͇̰̹͍͔̗̣́⃧̑͌̇͌̒͆̿⃧̌͂ͮ͑̋̿̀⃧͌͛ͭ̋ͥ̈͂ͣ̀͗͛⃧̎͑́ͩ͛ͬͯ̅͌ͫ̓͐̒̉⃧ͫͭͦ̈́́̎̀͌ͭ̿̌̄͊̌̂̈̐̽̕͜͠͠ͅ͏̲̬͕̖̙̻͇̺̻̬̙͔̱̭̱̩͡ͅͅţ̸̶̸̸̷̸̨̨̧̧̨̧̧̛̛̦͍͚͚̲̙̞̼̬̦̻̝̳̱͎̯̼͓͓͙͉͉̱̲̠͕̤̘͓͍̼̟̣͓̙̺̙̥̭̜̯̝̱̺̤̪̘͍̲̩̯͖̺̲̻͙̱̬̫̝̺̤̠̲̼̥̜͉̖̥̳̪̙̙̻̣͉̪͔͇͇̰͇̠̯̦̜͈͉̞̼̯͉̺̯̘̰̬̙̰̞̮͖̻̩̳̲͎̱̥̰̞͉̣̪̹̥͙̤̝͉̝̙͔̣͕̝̝̞̦͖̏̓̎ͩ⃧ͥ̉͛ͤͫ̓͐̀̉̔⃧̀̅̍̏̾ͬ̓̎͂͌ͤ̌ͬ̈ͭ᷆̑̃͌͋̉̿̏͐͛̒̀̃̋̍́⃧͌̇̃̈͊̊̅̽̆̒͂⃧ͬ̌̾̂̆̆ͨ͐̑ͬͧ͛̅͗̎̈́͐ͩͨ⃧̈ͣ͆ͪͤ͌̊̓ͭ̏⃧͂͊̋̈́͂̃̿͒ͮ⃧ͭ̿͒ͮ̾̃̓̑ͫ̅͌̈⃧̋́ͧ̊ͧ̑ͩ̀ͬ͒̇̈̈́̾̎̕̕͢͢͢͠͠͡͠͝͠ͅͅͅͅḩ̶̷̸̴̵̵̸̸̗̖͍͖̫̳̤̠̪͎̬̟͍̼͉̪̰̖͍̹̺̠͈̳̳̼̥̼̝͓͓͚̟͉̦͔͕̲͚̯̘̦̥̖̠̞̯͈̪̰͍̙͉͙̗̯͉̝̱̗͖͍͖̫̯͉͖̰̯̣̲̖ͬͩͮ̽ͨ̽̌͛ͥ̔̽̆ͭ̑ͭ⃧́ͥ͋ͥ͊̊⃧̈́̓͂̍̉ͤ́̽̓ͨ⃧͑͆̓͒⃧̾͒ͨͤ͒̽͊̋⃧̎̿ͥͤͪ͌͛ͩ̊ͯ͑͆̑͊⃧ͧͯ̉̎ͨ̇͆ͭͨ̓́̈̅̀⃧̈̋̒̀ͫ̆̉̀͆̊̈̏͒ͦ̋ͭ̈͘̚͟͜͟͜͜͜͢͡͡͡͞͠͝ͅͅ͏̡̛͎̪͉̤̖̜͈̝͇̠̯̲͎̼̻͇̱̬̝͈̗͚͚͈̗͍̺̟̰̣͔̜⃧͂̃̄̄̄͒̀ͬͮ̽̀͛̂̄̉̄̋̂͜͝ȃ̵̶̵̡̛͖̫̪͔̘̹͉̣̻̠̠̪̙̘̥̼̳̣̥͍̝̭͔̟̘̜͉̟̻̬͈̻̞͉̻̒̈ͣ̓̉́͌ͧ̄̀⃧̂̆̈͌̍̀̒̐⃧͗ͨͪͩͮͥ̇͆̆̽̎̉̃̋̉͊̋̂⃧̀̍͋͋̅͑͗ͯ̇̽̏̿̈̾ͣͨ͘̚͞͝҉̸̷̶̸̡̧̧̜̖̼̟̜̞͕̥̖͎̞̯̱̭̝͎̪͚͓̙͈̻̖͕̦̝̹̰̫̹͓͎̹̞̩̥͔̠̲̼̼̟͓̭̳̻̞͎͍̫̪̩̪̭̳̪̯͓̻͎͕͇͔̜̦̘̫̠⃧͑̿̃̾̌͗͂̑ͯ͆̒͊̉̽͛ͬ⃧͂̒̂̏ͭͦ̐ͥ͋͛ͨ͑̈͆ͫ⃧ͪͧ̈͛⃧ͯ͋̃ͬ͒͂͗̒͊̉̅́͌̅͂ͧ͗⃧́͐̊͗͂ͣ̊ͦ̒̀̚͘͜͜͜͜͞͡͠͝ͅͅt̢̃̋̑ͥ̒̌̿̅̓̒̍̏̉ͮ͏̸̸̵̵̵̴̸̧̛̛̟̦̖̥͇̗̦̹̫̱̳̭̰͚̪͈̭̺̙̗͎͔̤͙͉̠͙̱͖̥̜̜͔̟̰͉̟͔̣̠̖̺̥̥̠̙̞̯̯͖͉͇̻̲̫̥͔͇̻͈͙͈̟̬͖͔̞̗̫̱̟̪̜̳͕͍̻̤͉͔̫̰͓͈̱̳̬̰̘͔̭̝͕͙̙̣̖͚̖̺͇̯̬̤̜̟̻̘͍̮̞̠͔⃧̑̅̀ͥ̓͋ͧͨͥ͐⃧̐̄͐̑̋̓͑̋̅ͥ̃ͭ̐̈́̃ͮ⃧́͗̇̒̓̔ͪ̈́͌͊⃧̋ͥ̒̈́ͫͮ̔ͨ͐⃧͂̏̒̈̈́⃧̈́̉ͭͣ̅̉̒̄͐͂̿́⃧͂̆̏ͧ̔̏̌⃧̔ͫ̎͗́̕͘̚͘̕͢͟͟͟͟͝͞͠͝͝͠ͅͅͅͅ ̛̥̮̩̖̗̭̞̰̰̩̗ͪ̆ͤͨ̈́ͥͧ̀ͧ͊͒ͤ͂ͧ̉ͫ⃧̇̏̉͋̾̑́̀̓͒ͯ̾ͣ̀ͨͨ̏͟͠͏͏̵̵̨̨̨̺͚̣̯̜̦̠͓̲̫̰̹̮͚̹̫͙͇̜̟͈̘͈̹͉̰̭͇⃧̔͂̍̐̈ͣ̍ͪ͋̑̒́̓̂⃧̆͒ͬ̐̊̐̅ͦ̿͆́⃧̓͑̇ͨͭ̚͏̭͕͔̜̯̖̮͖̣̞̰⃧̇ͭͪ̉̌̓̊҉̶̸̯͓͈͕̬̠̯͓͖̱͚͉͈̹̳͍̻͍̘͕̻᷊⃧̉ͭͨͨ̌̏̅̊̎͋̏͛͆̿̅ͮ͂͟͝͏̵҉̷̷̧̪̬̖̫͔̼̲̫̗͓̫̫̙̦̞̞̬̼͖⃧͐ͩ̐͑̎̀ͧ̍͂͏̴̢͉̬̰͙̭͖̙̖̰͈̱͈͉͓̠͍̗̟̲͓̜̝̰̜̥⃧͌͊ͮ̀ͬ̽́̓ͬ̀ͮ̈̎̐͛̏͌́̚͝ͅc̷̵̶̵̴̸̷̴̡̢̨̡̛̛̹͙̤̠̦͍͍̥͍̫͕̘̠̹͍̭͉̖̘͖̪̺̻͉̬̪̙̰̞̖͇̖̮̠̣̼̣̭̭͉̩̜̖̫͙̳̱͈̗̯̖̼̤͔̭͚̣̱̝͓̲͔̳̝̬̜͙̗͙̬̻̱̥̻͉̻̼̝̲͍̞͙̲̱̭̤͚̝̜̙̝̫͎͖̯̩̬̟͇̳̖̲̝͇̟͇̠̼̥͖̰̞̞͇̹͙͈ͮͨͦ̏ͥ́ͨ̑͌̆̽͂̓̋̒⃧ͯ͂͆ͧ̃̒ͩ̃⃧ͬͫ̒̓̿̐̇ͥ⃧̿͛́͆ͪͨ͊̋̐͋̃̊ͥͧͦ̌͂̍́⃧ͦ̒ͮ̅ͨ⃧͋͗̋⃧͊͂̏̍̀⃧̀̿̓̑̓ͮ̎̓ͥ̉̎̏̊ͣͥ̀⃧ͧ͑̿̏ͬ͌͌̓̈́͐͒͑̚̕̚̚͢͢͜͟͜͢͢͟͠͠͠͞ͅͅͅͅͅa̶͌̉ͨͬͫͪ͗̏̿͐̀̈̌̊͏̶̡̨̧̛̗̰̬̠̦̣̬͙̳̙͇̘̤͙̝̪̠̹̮̹̜͓͉̭͇̜̳̱͍̭̮̤̪̜̻͍̣̺̘͔̟͉̜̞͈̝̭̩͉̪⃧̋̌̄͗ͧͩ̀̉̽́͗ͫ̇ͮͫ̃̄̋⃧̊̍ͮ͋́ͮ̃ͯͮ̐⃧̍̈̊̇͑̀̒͊̎ͩ͂̑͑͋⃧͆́ͥ̋͛̏ͥ̅̏̓́̕̚͟͢͜͝ͅͅ͏̵̷̷̧̢̧̛͚͓͔̣̺̰͉̙͉̖̠̳͕̙͕̻͎̝͔̖̳̝͉̟͎͍͉̖͈̙͈̱̹̹̮̣̫̰̜̫̮̳̘̼͍̗̀⃧͐̈̓ͬ̃̏͛ͭ̑ͪ̔ͭ̓͑͊̃͑͌̑̀⃧̐ͨͩ̈⃧̓̌ͯ̀͛̾̌̃̒ͪ͂ͤ͋́⃧ͦͩ̊͊ͧ́́̕͘͜͜͜͝͞͠ͅn̢̔̒̓̇ͮ́̈͗̚͝͞҉̸̷̬̲̩̝̤̥̞͙͙̜⃧̾ͣ̅ͣ̈́͌͂͐ͨ̆̓̿͑ͨ̅̚҉̶̷̨̢͈̤͓͇͕̫̘̠̩͈̘̻̺̫̥͍̹̹̰̼͉̤̣̰̥̗̮̮̼̥͔̣̤̝⃧͊̉ͥͭ⃧̂ͨͣ̊⃧̽̂ͨ͂̔̂͆̚͞͠͞ͅ҉̸̢̛̛͎͉̖̫͔̞̰͖̙̣͚̗̟̫̠̤͍̬͚̱̱͍̟⃧ͦ̉ͦ͂̀̿͂̒̒͆̀́⃧͑ͫ̍̈ͪͪ̔ͦ͂ͥ⃧̅̏͒ͮ́̉̉̾̌́ͭ̆̈̀ͪ͗̚̕͜͠͝͏̨͎̪̲⃧̆̒ͣͤ͋͏̩̲̥͉̠̳̫̠͕̯̦͈͔̫̳̖͇͈ ̴̡̨̡̡̹̻̼̼͖̫̦̩͔̫̪̳̙̰͎͙͈̣̹̦͓͙̖̥̻̙̞̻̝̟̝̯̩͔͚̞̬̩̤̮͖͇̙̩͍ͦ́̎̍͗ͨ͋ͧͨ͗ͫ͌⃧̑̃ͧ͂ͭ̽͂̇͑̇̽̃̒̈̋⃧̂̑ͨ͗͗͋̋̿͒͗ͩ͌̇⃧̾͆ͩ̔ͦ̚̕͟͟͜͜͠͡͏̖̞̦̫͎͇͙͚͉̫̯̼͙͙̯̙̭̀̀⃧̎̌̐͒̇͟͞͞ͅ҉̵̡̡̝̭̘̖̠̟̗̹͎̜̟͉̱̘᷾ͫͭ̔̾̆ͨ͊ͯͫ̈́̑̕̚͘ͅ͏̶̵͇͉̩͍̜͍̝̦̼̞̙͎͔̙̠̳̗͕̥̗͇̠̖͇͖᷂⃧ͦ̓ͨ̈́̅⃧͂̊ͣͥͨ̅ͯͥ̎ͭͧͨ̑̓ͮͣ̒͑ͮͩͣ͊́͢͞͡͡ͅͅͅ҉̨̡̛̞͖̜̼͙̖̳̞̮͚̟̝̹͉̹̟̠̻̦̘̻̼͖͎̭͍̤̣̮͖̬̫̪̺̟̭̯̹͎̮̥̠͍͍̱̲̖⃧̐ͬͨ͌̆ͥ͒͌̈́͂̾⃧̽̍̄̍̅̒̅̈́ͮͯͧ̀̅̓͒ͯ͘̕̕͟͟͞͞
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Joined: 23 Jul 2002
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Status: N͋̀͒̆ͣ͋ͤ̍ͮ͌ͭ̔̊͒ͧ̿

Postby Gepetto » Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:10 am

Nandub is a modification of VirtualDb with less resources and a simpler interface. I used to encode with it because it had some kind of "auto-XviD" button (I don't remember what it was called but it was right there on the File menu). It's been a while and probably a few versions since I used it, but it was literally as easy as open, press button, save. When I decided to actually learn something about encoding, I jumped to VirtualDubMod and I was already used to the way it looked, so yay.
And God spoke unto the Chicken, and He said: "Thou shalt crosseth the road", and the Chicken did cross the road, and there was much rejoicing.
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Gepetto
Mr. Poopy Pants
 
Joined: 10 Jun 2004
Location: The Tokyo Settlement
Status: Bored to tears

Postby Qyot27 » Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:31 pm

Speaking as someone who started out editing using only VirtualDub (and without using the Org's tech guides), it doesn't take too long to understand the program if you just get in there and fiddle with it (and if someone with an interest in video editing doesn't want to get in and learn how to use a reasonably-simple program like VDub they shouldn't be trying in the first place, IMO - not wanting to do something like that is the cause for a lot of poor-looking output; even something akin to Quicktime Pro is complex enough that to get good results there needs some instruction). Having a lot of options isn't intimidating if there's a manual that tells you each step to go through, which is exactly what the A/V Guides do.
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Qyot27
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Postby elvirasweeney » Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:12 am

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I really appreciate the recommendations. I guess I have some more downloading to do!

trythil: X11! Of course! I should have known I would need to install that. :oops:
Qyot27 wrote:(and if someone with an interest in video editing doesn't want to get in and learn how to use a reasonably-simple program like VDub they shouldn't be trying in the first place, IMO

I don't understand why you would say that they "shouldn't be trying." Everyone learns at a different pace, and in different ways. Frankly, I'd rather see a video with a great concept and skillfull editing, but with so-so-output, than one with mediocre editing but great output quality.

There's no reason why a person who is interested in vidding can't learn VirtualDub (or whatever other effective method they find) as time progresses. But they don't have to learn it right off the bat.

I just saw a video made by a first-time vidder, just using Windows Movie Maker and exporting using a high quality WMV preset. The WMV quality could be better, sure. But it was okay, and the editing and concept were so skillful, especially considering this person is a beginner! Should she be told that she "shouldn't be trying" to do fan videos, simply because she's not eager to figure out VDM just this exact minute? I don't think so. If she continues to have a passion for editing, she'll eventually get there.

not wanting to do something like that is the cause for a lot of poor-looking output; even something akin to Quicktime Pro is complex enough that to get good results there needs some instruction).

Quicktime Pro is a lot simpler that VirtualDub. A short tutorial (a paragraph or less) could instruct someone on how to customize it.

No slam against using VDM, because undoubtedly it has a great track record for excellence.
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elvirasweeney
 
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Postby Gepetto » Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:51 am

whoah, elvirasweeney, you put Qyot's remark a little out of proportion. He meant that if people absolutely resist to learning VDb ten they shouldn't keep trying. If they say "later" and really do intend to use it later, then that's fine, of course. We're not that extremist here
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Gepetto
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Postby elvirasweeney » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:12 am

Gepetto wrote:whoah, elvirasweeney, you put Qyot's remark a little out of proportion. He meant that if people absolutely resist to learning VDb ten they shouldn't keep trying. If they say "later" and really do intend to use it later, then that's fine, of course. We're not that extremist here

Ah, I see. Thank you for explaining. It was a bit confusing.

It's true—if someone is not interested in learning VDb then they shouldn't keep trying. That only makes sense. I'm guessing that a lot of newbies would look at that long tutorial page and be initially scared off. That's what I'm trying to avoid—I would like to recommend something that is a step up from WMM standard presets, but doesn't have quite the "OMG that's a long tutorial" thing going on with it. It looks like you all have given me some good leads. Thank you for that! :D
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elvirasweeney
 
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