For my setup what order do I convert colorspace?

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For my setup what order do I convert colorspace?

Postby fonque » Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:14 pm

I have been reading alot of the FAQ's all day and I just bought my first dvd-ram drive (good bye stone age).
So I ripped my first dvd and extracted a clip using the vic bond tutorial.

In this tutorial it says to use the huffyuv 2.1.1 codec to extract individual clips from the "master" divx file (avi containing entire movie) to pass off to primiere.

However I thought Premiere uses the RGB 24 bit color space? how will this effect the clip I just extracted using huffyuv 2.1.1?
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Re: For my setup what order do I convert colorspace?

Postby Scintilla » Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:26 pm

fonque wrote:I have been reading alot of the FAQ's all day and I just bought my first dvd-ram drive (good bye stone age).
So I ripped my first dvd and extracted a clip using the <b>vic bond tutorial.</b>

In this tutorial it says to use the huffyuv 2.1.1 codec to extract individual clips from the <b>"master" divx file (avi containing entire movie)</b> to pass off to primiere.

/me tries to suppress the murderous urges.

fonque wrote:However I thought Premiere uses the RGB 24 bit color space? how will this effect the clip I just extracted using huffyuv 2.1.1?

It shouldn't make a difference. Since DivX uses a YUV colorspace, HuffYUV will encode your clips in YUY2 mode. Premiere should then convert that to RGB internally without your having to do anything.

But if you do have a problem, make sure the "Always suggest RGB mode for output" box is checked in your HuffYUV codec options.
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Postby DJ_Izumi » Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:47 pm

Well, YUV -> YUV2 -> RGB still adds unnecessary loss in color space conversion.

However HuffYUV can also do RGB color space, larger file but no color second color space conversion when going into premiere.

But I'd suggest using Lagarith Lossless over HuffYUV. It compresses more, has a butt load of color space options and is just as idiot proof. You can save space and lose nothing by going from YUV(DivX) -> YUV(Lagarith)-> RGB(Premiere)

Though there's still the unavoidable conversion going into Premiere. And if you're not doing 'Fast Recompress' in Virtualdub it'll do a YUV -> RGB -> YUV conversion anyway.

Personally I just make everything RGB for simplicity. >.<
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Postby Scintilla » Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:17 am

I should have mentioned that you'll want to use VirtualDubMod's "Fast recompress" option to make sure it doesn't convert to RGB in between.

DJ_Izumi wrote:Well, YUV -> YUV2 -> RGB still adds unnecessary loss in color space conversion.

For clarification:
<b>YUV</b> is a general category of colorspaces, like RGB.
<b>YUY2</b> and <b>YV12</b> are such colorspaces. DivX uses YV12, which stores half as much chroma information per frame as YUY2.

Now then: YV12 -> YUY2 shouldn't result in any loss at all, and YUY2 -> RGB <i>is</i> necessary, because the popular NLEs all seem to work in RGB internally.

DJ_Izumi wrote:However HuffYUV can also do RGB color space, larger file but no color second color space conversion when going into premiere.

Even if you give it YUV data? I've always heard that if you feed HuffYUV YV12 or YUY2 video (making sure to use VDubMod's Fast recompress, or course), it'll compress in YUY2 mode no matter what settings you choose. But there's still a YUV -> RGB conversion in the process, so I don't see how this would help.
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Postby fonque » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:45 pm

Scintilla, whats the murdurous rage about? :shock:

So if I have the info from all of your posts right,

(movie) divx YV12 -> (clips) HuffYUV 2.1.1 YUV2 -> RGB (editing)

and DJ_Izumi you suggest using Lagarith to replace the HuffYUV?
Where can I download that codec?

Are there any better codecs to use instead of divx 6.whatever Im using for encoding the entire movie from the DVD?
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Postby DJ_Izumi » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:46 pm

Google up 'Lagarith Lossess' it'll be the first link. It's basicly like HuffYUV only better and probably easier to use.
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Postby Scintilla » Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:25 am

fonque wrote:Scintilla, whats the murdurous rage about? :shock:

The fact that Vic would suggest in his guide to compress your entire disc to DivX before cutting clips from it. Unless you're seriously pressed for hard drive space, there's no reason to throw in a lossy conversion that early in the process -- it's an unnecessary quality hit that'll only be compounded later when you have to compress the video again for online distribution.

But then, I am a stickler for things like this, and most people probably won't notice the difference in the finished product. So.
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Postby fonque » Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:08 am

Scintilla, I care about the final quality of what I will hopefully create.
What do you suggest instead of ripping to divx?

I used dvddecryter and then some avisynth scripts to convert to divx. What part of that step would be better quality wise?
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Postby NeoQuixotic » Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:36 am

Make your clips from the AviSynth scripts. You don't need to create another encoding of the DVD. And if you don't have a lot of hard drive space then save up for a new larger one. Hard drives are cheap nowadays :P.

As for the Lagarith Lossless codec:
http://lags.leetcode.net/codec.html
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Postby Willen » Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:52 am

Since part of the steps outlined by VicBond007 is making Huffyuv clips from those DivX files, why not skip the DVD to DivX conversion and make the clips directly from the DVD VOB files? It will save you the time you'd have spent converting everything to DivX, plus you don't have to hunt for and install DivX 4.12 (or DivX 5/6 or whatever).

So:

Rip DVD to hard drive.
Create D2V file with DGIndex.
Make or modify AVS script with de-interlacing and clean-up filters.
Load AVS into VirtualDubMod.
Create Huffyuv (or Lagarith) clips.
Import clips into your editing program.
????????
Profit.
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Postby Sub0 » Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:34 am

I don't even make clips no more, I just use the whole vob (converted to Huffy or some other editable format). Sure it makes it so you gotta store big ole 60 gig+ files (those AirTV 848x480 raws, 60 gigs PER EPISODE in Huffy! I may just have to try Lagarith...) WHILE editing. but it makes archiving TONS easier when all you need is the original dvd and a note of how you ripped it along with the project and any titles you have... I store HUNDREDS of projects per CD!... I dunno, I never filled one up really.

Movies of coarse, are smaller. And older series'. I used a riped NA DVD1 of Mahoromatic at 512x288 recently. the vobs (all but the menus/ previews) was -only- 13 gigs. like 11 gigs with cleaning -_-. Movies would be smaller.

Also makes clip hunting TONS tedious though. But you'll be that much more thourough since you basically watch EVERYTHING... a number of times.
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Postby Qyot27 » Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:57 pm

For those with lower-end setups, another possiblity to expedite the clip-finding process is to convert to MJPEG from the scripts (only using the very basic deinterlace or IVTC filtering, or anything else that would affect the frames themselves), then use the LQ MJPEG files to find the clips you want, taking note of the frame numbers in a .txt file. Load the full-quality scripts back into VDubMod, track to the right frame numbers with the Go To... option, and export. Alternatively, one could also make scripts for each individual clip using Trim(), and then tell VDubMod to just take the entire folder of scripts and convert, thus saving all that time tracking through the footage yourself. It may not save you a whole lot of time, but it will save a lot of frustration at having to wait relatively long periods of time to get to the right frames while just searching for clips if you're using resource-heavy filtering (or even if you're not; IVTC and deinterlace operations take up enough as it is).
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