HELP!! needed in removing Interlace!!!

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Re: HELP!! needed in removing Interlace!!!

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Wed May 18, 2011 11:02 am

htt91 wrote:btw the guide on your site says ( http://www.animemusicvideos.org/guides/mpegforcons/ )
Always use LanczosResize() for your resizing steps. It will produce the best-looking resizes


And my friend said something else about using ffms2...how do these two filters compare?Which one would you pick?

2 things:

First, to be fair, that guide was written in 2006. The information was common practice 5 years ago, but times have changed. There are better resizing methods you should use.

Second... what? What the hell does ffms2 have to do with resizing? I mean, you can set a resizer as a parameter when using it, but it's an importing method, not something to be used to resize.

Since it isn't obvious in your questions, have you edited your AMV yet or not? Is this pre-processing or post processing? The references to guides are so scattered, I can't make heads or tails of your intent here. You're talking about preprocessing one minute but referencing encoding steps in other guides the next. What the hell are you trying to accomplish?
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Re: HELP!! needed in removing Interlace!!!

Postby htt91 » Wed May 18, 2011 11:42 am

What I am trying to do is something fansubs like CoalGirls,THORA,Chihiro,Doki etc have been practicing for years which is encoding off DVDs directly after curing all the faults using Avi Synth filters.Of course since I wont be doing lossless encoding so I wanna make sure the source looks good before i encode.I have never tried it before and is the first time actually I am trying but faced quite a lot of obstacles already...

btw u said a lot of better methods to resize are available what are they?So what does ffms2 actually do and is it required in this case?please dont leave sentences in half x_x
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Re: HELP!! needed in removing Interlace!!!

Postby htt91 » Wed May 18, 2011 1:58 pm

Just to clear any and infact all miscommunications my incomplete statements have caused..this is the source i have
Screenshot --
Spoiler :
Image

as you can see its 1.8 Gb but in 2 part of 1 Gb and 800 mb for the same episode connected by chaptering.
Spoiler :
This is the Source
Image

Now Since Megui can't perform Chaptered Encoding and I needed an automated process so I went ahead and used Handbrake since it considers the 2 parts as one andthus a lossless encode gave me 1 file of 1.89 GB.i performed some simple filtering operations handbrake allows while I was at it which were DeTelecine,DeComb,Denoise(Medium) to get this encode (as I mentioned I have a CRF 6 encode too with same filters used on it)

Screenshot --
Spoiler :
CRF 0 Encode
Image
CRF 6 Encode
Image

Now when I tried to encode the lossless source on Megui it crashed it..I however managed an encode on the CRF 6 file getting this output
Spoiler :
Code: Select all
DirectShowSource("H:\New folder\[minitheatre.org][minitheatre.org][dvd-iso]itazura Na Kiss Crf 0 [htt91][Htt91].mkv", fps=29.970, audio=false, convertfps=true).AssumeFPS(30000,1001)
LoadPlugin("H:\Setups\Encoding Software\MeGUI_1911_x86_WithoutInstaller\tools\avisynth_plugin\TIVTC.dll")
TDecimate(cycleR=4)
LanczosResize(1280,720)
LoadPlugin("H:\Setups\Encoding Software\MeGUI_1911_x86_WithoutInstaller\tools\avisynth_plugin\UnDot.dll")
Undot() # Minimal Noise
ConvertToYV12()
aWarpSharp(depth=9, blurlevel=2, thresh=0.5, cm=2).MSharpen(threshold=4, strength=128, mask=false, highq=true)
Deen("a2d",2,5,7,0)

Image


---------------
mister hatt who has been really helpful till now suggested I ditch Megui and switch to either x264 for encoding or ZarxGui which I plan on testing soon.All I need now is a script which can combine the two vob files and then perform the required Sharpening,Smoothing and other operations so as to make the process automated removing the need for using handBrake which I am forced to use atm.I wanted recommendations on what all am I doing wrong and what can i do to improve for example during Sharpening or Smoothing etc.btw I still dont know whats the best method to resize the source.Clarification on that will be appreciated :)
-----------------------------------

I picked thetopic of ffms2 before thats because megui was making the scripts using DirectShowSource to which my friend recommended using ffmpegsource which is better (*he clarified this to me after all my previous posts)

Sorry for all the confusion that has been building up in this thread.hope its clarified now.I tried to state everything i possibly could.If you can just think of this as the first post in this thread and start anew...
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Re: HELP!! needed in removing Interlace!!!

Postby Mister Hatt » Wed May 18, 2011 2:40 pm

So you have a workflow problem. This is going to be way too difficult to solve on the forum seeing as you need to be shown the actual process of getting from ripping to editing to encoding and all the processing in between. Get on IRC (I'm on the AMV channel as well as Rizon under the same nick) and I can help you from there.

Just a note on CoalGirls/THORA/Chihiro/Doki: they are all HD groups and rarely if ever deal with the interlacing issues you are seeing, with the exception of Chihiro who occasionally use MPEG2-TS raw footage. That said, they are ALL known for having exceptionally bad encoding.
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Re: HELP!! needed in removing Interlace!!!

Postby htt91 » Thu May 19, 2011 4:13 am

Mister Hatt wrote:So you have a workflow problem. This is going to be way too difficult to solve on the forum seeing as you need to be shown the actual process of getting from ripping to editing to encoding and all the processing in between. Get on IRC (I'm on the AMV channel as well as Rizon under the same nick) and I can help you from there.


Thanks for the offer its just I am have my exams in the uni so I am a little busy...can it be possible that you add me as a contact on gtalk i bet that can work too that way once my exams end I will get to u first thing i do ^_^
Spoiler :
This is my gmail id -- httt91@gmail.com


Mister Hatt wrote:ust a note on CoalGirls/THORA/Chihiro/Doki: they are all HD groups and rarely if ever deal with the interlacing issues you are seeing, with the exception of Chihiro who occasionally use MPEG2-TS raw footage. That said, they are ALL known for having exceptionally bad encoding.


Damn goodness gracious you included everybody in there.I think I wont consider THORA bad atleast,yes they are the shyest encoders in the world using patched x264 and hiding their settings but u can almost guess they are using CRF 15 or below plus their filtering is the best of all fansub groups out there.CoalGirls well yeah you can say that...the encoder is a little weak on filters he was made a mockery of on his own site on the True tears listings when his screenshots were compared with THORA's.He sucks at Ordered chaptering too forgetting to remove the extra frames involved after cutting it on mkvmerge for which THORA uses trim I believe.

So yeah some groups can do better but they dont do bad encoding :|

btw FLCL from CoalGirls had some of the best settings I have seen so everybody has rough patches somewhere I would forgive them for one or two off the mark encodes but not say they encode bad unless i can do better than them which i cant atm :P
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Re: HELP!! needed in removing Interlace!!!

Postby Mister Hatt » Thu May 19, 2011 5:45 am

You don't magically get 'best' settings. Using a low CRF on a bluray is fucking stupid, at 1080p I wouldn't use under CRF20 myself most of the time, and I would like to think I'm a rather good encoder. The settings hiding thing that THORA do isn't caused by a patched x264, it's done with a binary editing script and actually breaks the AVC specification and makes the files unplayable with several decoders; I wouldn't consider broken encodes a good thing but that's just me. Filtering a bluray is also really stupid. Most subbers consider the guys in THORA, Doki, Chihiro, and CoalGirls to be absolutely rank amateurs. In fact CoalGirls and Chihiro often use the same encoder, who is known to be horrific. Anyone stupid enough to rip the FLCL bluray obviously can't encode, I believe TheRyuu can attest to the mastering quality. It's upscaled 6 times IIRC. If you really think these guys are good encoders, you're either blind or stupid.

You seem to know absolutely nothing about how mkvmerge cutting works in the fansub encoder world, it's done with a perl script and you don't simply 'forget' anything. Please stop talking like you know what you are saying.

Re contact, I don't use gtalk or any other IM systems, just IRC. It barely takes any time so I don't see the problem.
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Re: HELP!! needed in removing Interlace!!!

Postby Mister Hatt » Thu May 19, 2011 5:51 am

Oh, and just saying, THORA strip their SEI headers out of embarrassment, not shyness. Patching x264 to hide settings is a one line edit to a single file, so it's not like it's hard to do it properly and keep the stream within specification either. My own x264 compiles have 4 or more patches on them so I guess that must magically make me a better encoder. I really am a better encoder, but that's besides the point.
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Re: HELP!! needed in removing Interlace!!!

Postby htt91 » Thu May 19, 2011 8:22 am

Ahh nice to know you encode in the CRF 20s range much like me since I prefer the same... :D

I dont have any BD's on me so I cant say whther they require filters or not.I am totally clueless on that front though one thing I can tell Coal Girls did not use any filters and ended up like this from the BDs
Coalgirls:
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/9448/c ... s720p1.png
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/5262 ... s720p2.png
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6973/c ... s720p3.png
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/8833/c ... s720p4.png
http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/8743 ... s720p5.png
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/3375/c ... s720p6.png

while THORA who used Sharpeners got this
THORA:
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/1705/thora720p1.png
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/2852/thora720p2.png
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/6503/thora720p3.png
http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/1395/thora720p4.png
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/3244/thora720p5.png
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/3298/thora720p6.png

visually I find THORA file more attractive..idk about you though since you said BD encodes dont need filters :|


About what I said about ordered chaptering
Well I practice Ordered chaptering a lot myself and know that little variations in the xml file can save grace.U see Coal Girls opening Songs and Ending Songs always has some extra frames which Chihiro or THORA dont have.Coal Girls can easily better that by editing the chapter file and changing the time to match the last frame of the OP but they slack on it and that makes it a visual disgrace.(Download Coal GIrls Code Geass and tell me your thoughts later ^_^ or read people's comments in the DtB section of CoalGirls on how messed up their OC is >.>)

Let me link you an encode from me from a THORA source at CRF 21 and its OCed ......tell me how to improve it further since you said u can help ;)
[Mod #4423: Removed links - please don't link to fansubbed anime anymore, it's against forum policies. Mentioning fansub groups in discussion is borderline (but fine if you are only clarifying encoding techniques), but linking episodes really isn't.]

So do you regularly download from fansubs and make it better or u prefer doing it from scratch and download/buy BDs?I hope you recommend the fansubs stuff if you really have an ace up your sleeve...if you can try to link me one of your encode.Even a clipping will do...wish to see how you better THORA at a CRF more than 20 @_@ if you can manage that I might join you in protest against poor fansubs :P

And I will get you on IRC chat next week preferably :)
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Re: HELP!! needed in removing Interlace!!!

Postby Hikky » Thu May 19, 2011 10:58 am

One process could be using DGindex on your .vob files. You get both an audio (.ac3) and a dga file. Now you load the dga file in avisynth and process it with what's needed. You can have a look at "yatta" too, it shall create an avisynth file for you (which will need some modification). Next load it in Virtualdub (not MOD), and save it in w/e lossless format you want (huffyuv,UT...). You then go on to reencode your video etc...

That's just one way to do it....
Hello~~
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Re: HELP!! needed in removing Interlace!!!

Postby Mister Hatt » Thu May 19, 2011 9:12 pm

The issue with CoalGirls segment linking is inaccuracy, not bad trimming. It's what happens when you write the XML chapters file yourself instead of auto-generating it based on trims and IDR frame placement. If you trim 100% correctly but don't get the IDR frame, then it will seek to it anyway and give you that little blip. Some players seek differently as well and that can influence it, mplayer used to be guilty of this and may still be.

DtB has some strange things and is 540p so doing it in HD is silly unless you're 10bit encoding.

That said, all of this is really off-topic and you're linking fansubbed material which is against the rules of this forum. Your problem was with your workflow and source recognition, not the merits of one shitty BD ripper over another. Message me when you get the chance to jump on IRC and I can help with your actual problem. I might be asleep depending on timezones so be patient if I don't answer immediately.

Requesting a moderator to close this thread now as the problem is somewhat resolved, several posts are breaking the rules imo, and it is severely off-topic for this particular board.
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Re: HELP!! needed in removing Interlace!!!

Postby Davis 51 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:47 pm

Mister Hatt wrote: I would recommend reading my post in the bebop source thread about how to find out what you're dealing with, if someone can dig it up for you as I have no idea right now where it is. I might write a guide at some stage on this.


I have it right here.

The advice is extremely good advice that was explained in a very patient manner despite my thick-headed newb-ness at the time. A guide would go a long way towards helping people understand how this stuff works, actually. :D

Trust me when I say that Mister Hatt knows what he is talking about. It totally flew over my head the first time, and this stuff is indeed more complicated than it seems, so heed his words. I did, and it was hard, but I haven't had any problems identifying sources since. That said, I still need to learn to use YATTA one day.
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