Trigun (new Funimation release)

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Trigun (new Funimation release)

Postby Cannonaire » Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:58 am

What time is it?

It's field blending time.

Image

YATTA don't work on this level of incompetence. In case you were wondering, this is the new Funimation release of Trigun. It has very slight, hardly noticeable rainbowing which I won't worry about, and also has haloing which actually isn't very difficult to fix in this case. Much more heinous are the blended fields. Never mind that disc 3 in the box I got was scratched to hell and unplayable right out of the shrink-wrapped case I bought from Best Buy...

If anyone has any suggestions on how to salvage this, I'm listening. And if you're going to suggest I get the Japanese R2 release, show me where I can :P .

**Update before first post**
Glad I didn't post this yet. I'm going through the episodes right now, and it seems like only episode 2 so far has any blended fields :o . It also looks like only episode 1 has any sort of rainbowing, and it was minor anyway so no biggie there. I'll keep looking, but I could still use some suggestions on how to fix episode 2.
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Re: Trigun (new Funimation release)

Postby mirkosp » Sat Nov 13, 2010 6:19 am

If the scene allows it, then freezeframe. The usage is freezeframe(start_frame, end_frame, replace_frame) so if you want to replace frame from 2002 to 2006 with the frame 2004, you'd do freezeframe(2002,2006,2004).
In YATTA, you can hit F on the frame you want to freeze and F again on the frame to used to replace it. Another fast way is Ctrl+F, which will freezeframe the current frame with the next, or Shit+F, which replaces the frame with the previous. Ctrl+A will freezeframe the entire section with the frame you hit that combo on. Keep in mind that you "edit" sections by pressing I to make the current frame the starting frame of a new section and Ctrl+Q to delete the current section (it will be merged with the section before: assuming you're on frame 3005 and sections go like 2879 to 2998 and 2999 to 3210, pressing ctrl+Q there will make a single section from 2879 to 3210). To delete a freezeframe, press Q... I'm not sure if this works on freezeframes applied to sections, so for that I'd suggest you to go to Tools -> Ranges and manually delete the one you need to.

If you can't freezeframe the blended frame... tough luck. Either freezeframe it anyway, or see if some fancy stacking can help. It does help if you, for example, have a simple horizontal pan... cropping and using stackhorizontal with the previous and next frame can re-create the current frame in the pan, although remember to do that with range or some fancy trimming or apply range... I'm not sure how automated this can be in YATTA since the amount to crop changes with every pan, so you'll have to manually tweak it for every case. Of course, this can work with vertical pans too, you just use stackvertical instead. If the pan goes in another direction... heh. You might want to be ubereffort and combine stackhorizontal and stackvertical and use the original blended image only for the unique area in the corners. Then next thing you might want to try is having some fun with the masktools... it might help depending on the situation. Another way might be to try and see how inpainting the blended part of the frame looks (go with InpaintFunc); please note that I wouldn't really suggest this method as it likely will have meh results and it might hard to get working.
That's the last resort. If you still want to remove the blending and none of the above methods satisfy you, then I'm afraid you will have to load the frame in photoshop and have fun redrawing it by hand.

Of course, there is always the solution "keep the blending there and don't mind it" as well as, considering this is for an AMV, chances are you might not even be using most of the blended scenes, so it would be useless to spend a lot of effort on a scene that in the end you didn't really have to show anyway.
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Re: Trigun (new Funimation release)

Postby Castor Troy » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:03 pm

The Japanese R2 release isn't much better.

Trigun will always look like crap. :(
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Re: Trigun (new Funimation release)

Postby Mister Hatt » Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:28 am

YATTA works fine on it, also stop using YATTA as you are not trained and mirko is not qualified to teach you. I don't even know why you are trying this. YATTA can do everything it needs to. If you honestly think the program cannot do what you want, then YOU are just incapable of using it.

@Castor Troy: um no, stop being dumb please. The R2j disk absolutely shits on this. Do you even have eyesight? Like a tiny bit? At all?
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Re: Trigun (new Funimation release)

Postby Cannonaire » Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:54 am

When I made the statement about YATTA, I thought it was like this for most of it. Turns out, in most instances there is a usable pair of matched fields that can be freeze-framed. I haven't had a chance to really do anything with YATTA except mess around with it a little.

In any case, not even YATTA can fix it perfectly if there isn't a clean pair of fields to freezeframe.
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Re: Trigun (new Funimation release)

Postby Mister Hatt » Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:52 am

You generally don't need to freezeframe :V
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Re: Trigun (new Funimation release)

Postby mirkosp » Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:50 am

Mister Hatt wrote:You generally don't need to freezeframe :V

What about lolmpeg2 scenechanges? :P
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Re: Trigun (new Funimation release)

Postby Cannonaire » Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:39 am

Well, you are correct in that I don't know how to properly use YATTA. My knowledge has barely scratched the surface when it comes to video stuff, which is no surprise since I only started learning intently in may. But it should be apparent that I intend to learn things properly and even more apparent that I pay a great deal of attention to detail. I'm ready to learn.

I still say that if there is not a clean pair of fields for a match - i.e at least one of the fields always has blending - you will never get a perfect result. From what I have seen, that is not the case with this release, thankfully. If I am incorrect on this point, I am eager to learn why. :beer:
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Re: Trigun (new Funimation release)

Postby mirkosp » Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:43 pm

I'd say that as long as at least one of the two fields of the pair is clean you're good: nnedi3(nsize=5,fapprox=7) will do a good job at interpolating the other for you.
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Re: Trigun (new Funimation release)

Postby Mister Hatt » Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:44 am

mirkosp wrote:
Mister Hatt wrote:You generally don't need to freezeframe :V

What about lolmpeg2 scenechanges? :P
What, amvers using MPEG2-TS source files now? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA NEVER.

@Cannonaire: if you agree to do some general encoding and have good filtering skills, I'll teach you YATTA.
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Re: Trigun (new Funimation release)

Postby Castor Troy » Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:41 pm

Mister Hatt wrote:YATTA works fine on it, also stop using YATTA as you are not trained and mirko is not qualified to teach you. I don't even know why you are trying this. YATTA can do everything it needs to. If you honestly think the program cannot do what you want, then YOU are just incapable of using it.

@Castor Troy: um no, stop being dumb please. The R2j disk absolutely shits on this. Do you even have eyesight? Like a tiny bit? At all?


I think you need to take the beer googles off, my friend.
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Re: Trigun (new Funimation release)

Postby Cannonaire » Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:22 am

Field from the Japanese R2 release:
Image

Oh hell. It seems to be like this for the whole episode.
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Re: Trigun (new Funimation release)

Postby mirkosp » Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:30 am

OTOH the R2J seems to be hella more detailed than the funi release. Something tells me it was given a much more proper bitrate...
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Re: Trigun (new Funimation release)

Postby Cannonaire » Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:58 am

The scenes are from different episodes. The first scene posted (from the Funi release) is from episode 2, which is really blurry in the R2J release as well. There is no consistency of quality in either the R1 or the R2 release. The scene shown from the R2J release looks pretty much the same in the R1, except they removed all the wonderful grain that was in the R2 and also the blending doesn't looks nearly as bad in motion somehow on the R1s. Maybe later I'll post the same field but from the Funi release to show the difference.

Regardless, the R2s are not magically and perfectly superior to the new R1 release. I would actually say that, aside from the grain, the new Funi release is a lot easier to work with. It basically seems that all of the issues in the (new) R1 release were present in the R2, just covered by a healthy grain. This includes the haloing as well, which seems to result from aggressive over-sharpening in the R2 release.
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Re: Trigun (new Funimation release)

Postby Cannonaire » Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:10 am

Here is a comparison of the two releases. I think this is the same field, but I could be wrong:

Spoiler :
Region 1 Funi:
Image

Region 2:
Image

It seems the R2J release got a much better bitrate and they removed a lot of the nice grain for the R1 :( . Fundamentally though, they are both crap. It seems this episode doesn't have the haloing problem, but most episodes have significant haloing due to most likely over/improper sharpening in both the R1 and R2 release, as are most of the problems. Like I said before, regardless of the release there is no consistency in quality between different episodes, as some look really good but others look like... well whatever you would call the screens I posted.

Here are a couple bonus shots from the R1 funimation release in which I tried to clean up the haloing. It's not perfect, and it kills detail, but I think it looks better without the halos.

Spoiler :
Original:
Image

DeHalo_alpha(rx=1.8, ry=1.8, darkstr=1.3, brightstr=1.7, lowsens=10, highsens=10, ss=2.0)
(and some LSFMod):
Image

So sad. I hope when/if they finally release a blu-ray version they can fix some of the fundamental problems we're seeing. Image
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