AMV Salad 4: TV Dinner (next stop - Nekocon)

[Squancho]

What is our final day for making any changes for this?

Absolute final "no more changes - we're sending this puppy to Otakon" date is June 25. Submission deadline for Otakon is July 2. I'm still waiting for the Fan-produced video coordinator to reply to my request to either run AMVS3 and 4 together or play 3 Friday night and 4 on Saturday.

[Gaelstrom]

That's a lot more time than I thought. That's plenty of time to fix anything up, definitely.

[moonbunnychan]

Oh opps....I hadn't checked this in awhile and didn't notice the message to me. Did you get it worked out? It SHOULDN'T have been interlaced...but Vegas has done stranger things to me. I know I'm a bit late in this now. lol.

[Squancho]

HERE IT IS!

http://rapidshare.com/files/388559884/AMV_Salad_4.mp4

Note: the blank clip with the Scrubs theme is mine. I'm holding my place on the timeline as I finish the video part of my submission. I also need to actually write in the end credits and crop / zoom the video there. Otherwise, enjoy.

Comments, suggestions,...fire away!

[Gaelstrom]

All right, first impressions that this is definitely more consistently strong than AMVS3 ^^ These are awesome. I'd have to say my favorite is definitely the Family Guy meets Death Note one. Well done, great cuts, wonderful setup. The Commander in Heat one was quite good as well. Those are some of the few that I don't think the time harmed their punchlines but told a good narrative.

Rather ironic, really, I thought I was the only one shitting on the 45 second limit with Haruvi Baadoman and Sony POS ^^

Speaking of which, Deuce, you used the wrong version of Haruvi Baadoman. You used the clip I sent to give you a preview so none of the lip-sync was there, not the finished DV I sent through TransferBigFiles. They should all be marked DV, lemme know if you don't have that one for whatever reason. That may be the case with the Clannad clip as well, please check on that.

First thoughts on my clips: Really other than using the wrong version, I have two thoughts. One is that the Haruvi Baadoman one should be earlier so that the distance between that one and the ending credits one isn't too long so people forget, but is long enough that they have to take a moment to recognize the voice and such, making them think a little. Definitely after the 12 minute mark, but before the 20 minute mark. In regards to the credits clip though, I honestly don't think you should separate it or put music over it. Initially I'd mentioned to you using the record-scratch sound and stopping all other sounds and music to cut it into the credits as if Haruhi cut into the actual production, then play the sound again and continue the credits. Cutting apart the joke, and covering it with sound is too distracting to the audience I think, too much going on. If you don't like the idea of cutting off the credits, then perhaps it can go at the end, but I think the record-scratch/cut into credits will land well personally.

One last thing is please make the fade at the end of the Onion clip a test pattern, I believe it'll land harder. Fading on the punchline really diminishes its effectiveness.

Unfortunately I think some of the clips' length ends up damaging the punchline. I have some initial thoughts on how to consolidate the time and keep it more consistently funny.

A) Many of the shorter clips happen in the beginning. I think the production would benefit from spreading them between larger clips later on so that people get a quick break from the lengthier ones. I like the strong start, though, so if some of the longer ones can be edited down a bit to focus more on their punchlines, it won't be necessary.

B) That intro of the AMVS4 title was a little weak. I can't believe someone else did Slap Chop, but thank god it wasn't the song at least ^^ I'm considering seeing if it'll work to put AMVS4 under the Lucky Channel logo in the 3D render, but I'm not sure how that'll work. I was also thinking that I could render a quick AMVS4 logo for the Onion clip for the bottom corner, but I'd be nervous about having it move at all for distraction purposes.

C) Here are what I think can be done to some of the longer clips. Near the end there are several I truly feel are too long for their joke, and can be easily consolidated down and be just as effective, if not more so:

Captain Planet: This one's the 'worst offender' of this I feel. I sincerely think this should be cut off right after you see Naruto with "I am captain planet!" I totally lost it right there, and then spent the rest of the clip wondering why none of the footage made sense with the clip. It'll get a great laugh if it cuts there, but I can see people getting bored through the rest of it very easily.

Thunderbirds: I laughed after "Thunderbirds are GO!". After that was okay, but the punchline had landed, so I found myself waiting for it to end. Definitely a good clip, just went on a bit too long I feel.

Kyoko Bunch: Little long, but the text commentary trying to keep up with the inconsistencies was pretty funny so I didn't feel the length as much. It was the ending that I couldn't follow. After the text commentary I guess the rest you'd have had to have seen the show to get. Personally I'd suggest cutting it after the Kyoko Bunch logo comes up, but it depends how popular the series is I guess. I am not familiar with it.

Gurren Rock: This one I'm on the fence about. Gurren Lagann distracts with awesome animation, but after the first verse I didn't really find the clip connection without watching a couple more times. At the same time I don't know how it could necessarily be edited down. Objectively if you start at the boob-swimming scene at 10:13 and went from there it'd land, but then would lack the context of the beginning. I'd suggest putting this clip earlier if no editing happens, that way people will still have endurance for more lengthy clips.

Hallmark: This clip is edited nicely, but I'm caught a bit off guard by it since I don't know the source. I'd say cut off the beginning part, because after the "3 years late" I was expecting some kind of joke and the clip kept going and took a while to get where it was going. From not knowing the source audio, I can say I think the clip would be more effective to the general audience starting at the "Just for you" with maybe a Hallmark logo. Or the alternative is starting after the 3 years later.

D) Other clip suggestions

Chris Hansen clip: Took me a couple times to realize what it was, but after that I liked it. One part that I found weak though is between the office scene and the ball to the... balls ^^ I'd suggest searching for a reaction shot for the teacher guy to place in between. Otherwise it's pretty stoic.

The Geico: I liked the running gag ^^ It's pretty straight-forward, but it works. I would suggest looking for empty rooms in those scenes though and putting a less stretched version. It harms the joke a bit when it's so obviously photoshopped there rather than sitting on something. It may be difficult, but we have plenty of time. I've looked through a lot of Haruhi footage so I'm sure I have a couple scenes where it fits.

Fading: One major point I wanna be preemptive about. I cannot think of any instance in the history of cinema where comedy lands effectively on a fade, so really I'd honestly and wholeheartedly suggest never using a fade ever in a production like this. It will never really work, especially if a clip isn't designed for it, which none of ours are.

That's all for now. This is gonna be a good one.

[Kei83]

I sent you a link again to the shorter captain planet one i sent it before in an e-mail dating May 3rd....

anyway it is much shorter and ends where naruto is shown as captain planet but there is some added effects... i just saw today that you did not have the proper clip and wanted to make sure you received it.

i felt the same way after watching it again as the above poster and we had discussed making it shorter so i just wanted to let you know aside from e-mail that i had sent a corrected clip and wanted to make sure you get it.


ps i didn't see my production tag in the credits which i know are not finished just let me know if you need it re-sent

[Gaelstrom]

Oh yes, one of the clips I forgot to mention was the Baywatch one. What may help it out actually is to truncate the intro. I liked the drum opening, quite epic. One thing that may be affecting it is the lack of cuts. It could be boosted by more cuts of the characters. In the baywatch opening which I just took a gander at on youtube, you have the usual running at the camera intros. Those have movement, while anime tends to rely on still frames.

What could help is to shorten the still frames and not make it aligned to the original intro. The point will come across far faster. One thing to worry about though is I didn't recognize it as a Baywatch opening, so it'll be lost on many people I think. The current generation of con goers is younger. Perhaps you could play with the concepts a bit, like instead of Nancy Boy, have "David Hasselhoff as Nancy Boy" so the Hasselhoff reference starts clicking to people perhaps. You could even go further and have "So-and-so as Breast(the last word quickly being crossed out followed by the real name)" and just have it getting progressively more like the credits don't care.

Honestly, the huge breasts being the connection to Baywatch is a tad flimsy. To many people like myself all we know about Baywatch is "boobs" so making the connection obvious sooner is important.

anyway it is much shorter and ends where naruto is shown as captain planet but there is some added effects...

One thing actually, Kei83. I look forward to seeing the edited version, but honestly cutting it right there seems perfect to me ^^ Even if it's incidental, you nailed the timing I think. Naruto shows up JUST on time with the word "Planet" and if you cut it right there, you can picture the audience's minds will take a second to catch up. I get the feeling they'll do what I did and lose it right then, so they are laughing through the test pattern, and that's even better since the clip after, the geico one, has a bit of a slow start and gives a buffer to the laughter. I can all but promise you that it's a perfect clip to leave minimalistic.

[Kei83]

One thing actually, Kei83. I look forward to seeing the edited version, but honestly cutting it right there seems perfect to me ^^ Even if it's incidental, you nailed the timing I think. Naruto shows up JUST on time with the word "Planet" and if you cut it right there, you can picture the audience's minds will take a second to catch up. I get the feeling they'll do what I did and lose it right then, so they are laughing through the test pattern, and that's even better since the clip after, the geico one, has a bit of a slow start and gives a buffer to the laughter. I can all but promise you that it's a perfect clip to leave minimalistic.

well it does end at the planet line. here
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=QAGAEQO1

other than that the baywatch one is mine and i had the text across the screen at the beginning during the first kind of running scene however upon deuce request i put it near the end because he said it seems to fill in a little slowness that way. I was concerned about the age of the show thats why i had it at the beginning initially. (which mirrored the show)

and i know the names are off but they are a play on bra sizes as a joke might be a little too subtle... C "Censored for tv" JJ "Jungle Jane" DDD one as well.


However I do appreciate the input i feel it helps me grow in making amv's

[Gaelstrom]

Hmm... that added part I honestly don't like. It's kind of like a 'captain obvious' moment, commenting to the audience on how it's an abnormal clip, when the whole production is about abnormal clips. So it contradicts the humor. The sound and strange voice and effect coming across the screen actually stopped me from laughing (which I was going to do, because your clip gets me every time when I see Naruto even after half a dozen times seeing it ). In that regard I can only beg you to accept that you had it right the first time. It may seem like it's cut off there since you don't have a test pattern, but imagine a test pattern after it, and it won't feel empty, I promise.

As for Baywatch, the slowness will be slow regardless of where you put text, so trying to cure a disease by looking at its symptoms will never solve the issue. It really just needs to be shortened if it feels slow. It doesn't have to be the exact length original and hit all the beats of the Baywatch intro to get the joke across, just hit on beats with the cuts themselves, and you'll be totally fine. For example, "Some people stand in the darkness" is all you need for Nancy Boy. Then "Afraid to step into the light" for the girl. That's an effective length, and still fits the timing of a more modern intro, so you won't cause issue with anyone.

And you're right, I had no idea the names were parodies on breast sizes, in fact I'd never ever heard of those terms being used to describe breast sizes, so in that regard I can only suggest making them much more obvious. I'm fond of jokes inside jokes, which is why I suggested having the credits become like a commenting character. The Brady Bunch clip does a similar concept, where the "Narrator" of sorts becomes an active character in the clip. In fact that text is the only reason that clip is amusing to me, otherwise it'd be a bunch of still images of a show I know nothing about. With the text, the text itself becomes the audience perspective character, and draws in even those who know nothing of the show like me.

If you'd like I could help you brainstorm some possibilities for making the clip land a bit stronger. Can't guarantee I'd come up with the best ideas, but my clips all go through the gauntlet of my friends, and they tell me flat out if my idea just doesn't work and help me get it on course. I find that having more heads involved really does guarantee higher quality.

[Squancho]

...you used the wrong version of Haruvi Baadoman. They should all be marked DV, lemme know if you don't have that one for whatever reason. That may be the case with the Clannad clip as well, please check on that.

I'll look in my files and inbox for it.

First thoughts on my clips: Really other than using the wrong version, I have two thoughts. One is that the Haruvi Baadoman one should be earlier...Definitely after the 12 minute mark, but before the 20 minute mark.

I originally had yours and Commander in Heat switched. I'll make the adjustment and look again for the DV. As far as the credits, I can see how they're sloppy, even for a first beta. I knew there would have to be work done on those. We'll work on it.

One last thing is please make the fade at the end of the Onion clip a test pattern, I believe it'll land harder. Fading on the punchline really diminishes its effectiveness.

...the POS? I was using that as a buffer to go between the Salads as a PSA or "news break," hence no test pattern.

A) Many of the shorter clips happen in the beginning.

Already considered and planning.

B) That intro of the AMVS4 title was a little weak. I'm considering seeing if it'll work to put AMVS4 under the Lucky Channel logo in the 3D render, but I'm not sure how that'll work.

I was actually thinking about that, only placing an AMV Salad 4 next somewhere in the blank area to the left. BUT if there were a way to insert "AMVS News" within the Lucky Channel star or thereabout, that would be better, no?

Near the end there are several I truly feel are too long for their joke, and can be easily consolidated down and be just as effective, if not more so:
Captain Planet:: working on this one with editor.

Thunderbirds: Will see what the creator says.

Kyoko Bunch:: Honestly, even though it's not a closing punchline, keeping the theme song intact is important; especially filling in he center square.

Gurren Rock:: This one probably could go on earlier.

Hallmark:: Not too sure about doing anything with this one except for, maybe, placing it earlier on the timeline. Anyone who's seen That 70s Show should recognize the source. Also, the opening segment is needed as a setup so I understand it being there.

D) Other clip suggestions

Chris Hansen clip: Took me a couple times to realize what it was, but after that I liked it. One part that I found weak though is between the office scene and the ball to the... balls ^^ I'd suggest searching for a reaction shot for the teacher guy to place in between. Otherwise it's pretty stoic.

The Geico:: This belongs to moonbunnychan. See if you can explain your idea to her through PM and she'll probably get back to me about any changes she might make.

Fading:: Point taken.

And to Kei83: I got your revision in my email. Will look at it and compare with the original to see which one might work better. I'll also look for your production tag in my files. I might have missed it. Anyway, feel free to consult with your fellow Salad chefs about your clips unless you're happy with them...