AMV Salad 3: next stop - NekoCon 12...

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Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby Deuce Loosely » Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:45 pm

Gaelstrom wrote:Also, it looks like you have to re-render it anyway. It's crushed, it looks like you accidentally did 640x480 instead of 720x480 -_-

Sorry, Deuce, it's nearly over!

First, I have to agree with krvabo. I made sure to make the slightest embellishment that would create the biggest impact so my physical mark is minimal at most. I didn't add my name to the clip because it was his work and idea. I just added a little spice and let it cook a bit longer.

What are you watching the video through? I rendered this video the same way I always have and it played as it should have on DVD through a TV projector. I edited as 720x480 and rendered 640x420 so the outer edges wouldn't be chopped off during playback as in previous years. This time it worked, and everything looks normal from this end, anyway (I have WMP, Winamp. and DivX players). What exactly do you mean by "crushed?"

I'll get to the Haruhi thing...
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Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby Gaelstrom » Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:15 pm

deuceloosely wrote:First, I have to agree with krvabo. I made sure to make the slightest embellishment that would create the biggest impact so my physical mark is minimal at most. I didn't add my name to the clip because it was his work and idea. I just added a little spice and let it cook a bit longer.


I'm just used to team projects so much where who does what doesn't really matter as long as the end result has the best impact. So I kinda went a little overboard I guess, sorry. I personally would have been fine if one of you wanted to change up one of my clips a lot as long as everyone felt it was better, so that mindset follows me around everywhere now.

I guess... you were right about the render being right. I seriously can't explain it, but every time I open the thing in MPC (my default), it looks 640x480, then when I resize the window, it snaps to the right shape (not every time, I still get it crushed sometimes no matter what I do). Sorry about that, I'm not sure what happened. It did crash my MPC every time I tried to jump around in the video though, so I dunno what's goin' on. I'll redownload the CCCP again, MPC likes to corrupt itself.

Thanks a lot, Deuce, I know changing it is annoying. Your extra work will certainly pay off. And next year everything'll be much much smoother, I am certain.
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Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby thundercatlord » Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:23 am

Ok, here are my points:

0:21--> Typo, says 11:pm instead of 11pm

0:41--> Typo, says 9:pm instead of 9pm

1:59-2:25--> I honestly don't like the fact that you "re-edited" my clip. I said you could shorten it, but I never gave the go to re-edit it. It actually kind of pissed me off, I had the dance the way I wanted it, and I believe it worked better the way I had it. And to quote InspZenigata:
1) The Haruhi/NSync clip... was that edited since the BETA? I thought the timing and order of the dance moves was in much better synch on the first copy than this latest mix. Maybe it was just my eyes, but I thought the dance matched the music better in the BETA. :book:

So please...if it is at all possible, please change it back. Also, since it got moved to the end of a segment...by Gaelstrom's logic it should have a test pattern after it to "give the joke punch". I'll get more into that whole thing in a bit..

5:10-5:47-Now I like the editor's joke here, but this clip follows the same kind of idea as my "Haruhi-N*Sync" clip...to quote Gaelstrom:
Sakuraslight requested text removed, so I dunno what else there is to say.

That's the point right there...It's Sakuraslight's clip, and it should be his call what happens to HIS clip. I was more than annoyed when I saw that this was not changed per the editor's request.

6:39-6:45--> My Mudkip clip was moved to the end of a segment. By Gaelstom's logic there should be a test pattern there to give the joke "punch". So where's my test pattern? And I am being serious about that, because if you going to do it for one editor..you need to do it for all others who's clips follow that same formula. For fairness and uniform...ness sake.

9:32--> on the same point....Deuce you should have a test pattern here for "Aren't You the Guy..?" so that everything will be uniform.

17:36--> typo, should be "Suzumiya" not "Suzimaiya"

18:44--> again typo, should be "Suzumiya" not "Suzimaiya"

19:36--> "s" in Graphics is cut off.

I would also like to add that the next Salad's deadline should be a least a month (or more) before you have to submit it to Otakon. The amount of re-writes and revisions since the first version has been ridiculous. Especially after the original deadline. If we are going to end up tweeking the next one this much, we need to have that cushion to work with.
And if we release it here on the org to BETA test it... put a link to watch it in the "Opinions" forum..instead or the "Announcements" forum. That's what its there for. I think that a lot of people were put off from downloading it because of its "BETA" state. The "Announcements" forum is for final videos, let's put it there when it's finished, ok?
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Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby Deuce Loosely » Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:39 am

*heavy sigh*

Test patterns: added.
Haruhi clip: reverted.
Typos: ...untypo'd.

Now what should be done with the Demolition Man clip? On its own, without any text or ad at the end,...someone needs to explain the FMP joke because I don't know the series. Otherwise, I'm not certain how to place it. It's a nice clip but it might be lost on a lot of viewers who also aren't familiar with FMP. I'm at an impasse here.

Suggestions?
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Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby thundercatlord » Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:56 am

deuceloosely wrote:*heavy sigh*

Test patterns: added.
Haruhi clip: reverted.
Typos: ...untypo'd.

Now what should be done with the Demolition Man clip? On its own, without any text or ad at the end,...someone needs to explain the FMP joke because I don't know the series. Otherwise, I'm not certain how to place it. It's a nice clip but it might be lost on a lot of viewers who also aren't familiar with FMP. I'm at an impasse here.

Suggestions?

Thanks for changing the Haruhi clip back, I know this is all getting downright stupid and I wasn't trying come off demanding or anything. I was just laying out how I see it. I personally think that there have been a lot erroneous things being asked for in this project, but if they are going to be granted for one editor, they should be granted for others as well. As for the Demolition Man clip, I personally don't get the FMP joke either. I only get the Adobe Premiere joke. But at the same time I feel that since Sakuraslight asked for the text to be removed it should be, unless Sakuraslight can be convinced otherwise. I mean, I just don't want Sakuraslight to get pissed, you don't want to lose a talented editor for "AMV Salad 4" over this. You have been very patient with everyone and I commend you for that Deuce.
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Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby Deuce Loosely » Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:18 am

I just shot a PM to sakuraslight about this clip and asked what he thinks should be done with it. Hopefully I won't have to relocate it (I think I might scream :sweat: ) and that we can come to some kind of agreement. Either way, Mr.Pyson won't wait for after this weekend before committing whatever he has to the parody reel. Right now, he has the last version I shared with you all. I guess I'm waiting on the word on the DM clip before sending a final replacement or saving it for the next con.

Furthermore, there will be AT LEAST a month dedicated to post-production next time. Things wouldn't have been so rushed this year were it not for my previous computer troubles. I'm understanding why some producers don't even set deadlines, but Otakon isn't on our side with that.

This year has been a true learning experience... :amv:
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Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby Gaelstrom » Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:56 am

I apologize as well, Deuce. I want you to know that it was never once my intention to give you grief or trouble you in any way. I went by your declaration that you wanted quality, constantly improving the projects and learning as you went. That's what I strive to do all the time as well, so I felt it'd be a disservice if I didn't give my all and explain what I've learned through personal experience. No, I haven't done AMVs, but I am an animator and done video editing before and it's my profession, so I simply wanted to explain my reasoning.

I apologize that my request for test patterns is causing difficulty, but to this I just ask this question: What do we want most, consistency or humor? I choose the latter all the way and I think you do as well. The test patterns are basically your touch to every one of our clips that makes them stronger, and to say that taking them away is disorienting is an understatement. So please understand that your test patterns, like the AMV Hell snow transitions, are an institution we all prepped our clips for. The adult swim stuff is great, but if it takes away from the institution's consistency, it's worth the inconsistency with the adult swim commercials. I can tell you from seeing the redone one it doesn't hurt at all.

As a major suggestion I would recommend a format for suggestions and changes next year, part of it was my fault for listing so many changes without a format. My intention was to justify every reason I gave with reasonable explanations, because I don't like when people tell me to 'do something' without reasoning so I don't do it to others, but it causes a block of text like I've been known to write... like now. But the basic idea is, many of our request changes were ignored, missed, or not discussed properly between the majority in cases like Demolition Man. So it's very important for you to have a list and for us to have a format for accurate and widespread change requests next year I think.

As for the Deadline being a month before, I consider this a great idea, but also consider that there be some secret unsaid leeway for clips that get your personal say whether they get in or not by request of authors due to delays being out of state and such. Case by case basis things, but nothing that will jeopardize the project like this year.

Demolition Man: Having seen FMP, I can tell you the joke isn't meant to be laugh-out-loud funny, but amusing with the prospect of laugh-out-loud funny. Sousuke as a character perfectly matches all the things spoken in the clip, hence my desire for the clip to be left alone, and its creation in the first place. While the Premiere joke is relevant and amusing for us editors, it has absolutely nothing to do with the clip. The 'proper rehabilitation program' is the only very flimsy connection to the premiere joke and even audiences who know nothing about editing will recognize that they are being bombarded with too much information at once.

These are the jokes I generally avoid because it removes the audience who doesn't know one source or the other from enjoying it. Like I said I did my best in my clips to make them general humor that all could get, then are enhanced by knowing the source rather than reliant on it.

In cases like this though, all of you who seem to like the premiere joke more don't seem to have seen FMP, and that's a big issue for jokes that are this dependent. I see the issue with having source-dependent jokes, but in this case, Now 63 has taught me to trust the anime con audiences a bit more in their willingness to follow anime inside jokes. Editor inside jokes is a bit off the beaten path for cons, since I disagree that most parody-goers are also editors. I can tell you as someone who absolutely adores FMP that the joke is sound and holds its own, not the best, but very creative in the use of the sources.

If you haven't seen the series, please defer to those that have to find out if the clip works. It's why we're part of a team, so we back each other up and by doing so enhance our quality all around. Nobody wants to hurt feelings by doing critique, it's because ALL our work is enhanced by a stronger overall production, and it's weakened by lower quality. The lack of a critique phase this year seems to have been a massive hit which caused a lot of these issues to take longer to rectify.
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Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby krvabo » Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:21 am

Gaelstrom wrote:
krvabo wrote:Well you are free to try of course but seeing as it wouldnt be my clip anymore, credits should go to you.
I dont think that Deuce will do another swap/edit seeing as this is going on for so long now.


If you really feel that way, I'm sorry. I made a quick test, but I'll let it go with that then if you really feel like I'm stealing your thunder or something.
http://rapidshare.com/files/251641421/A ... 1.mp4.html
I guess at the very least you can tell me if you think it may have helped or not.

Sorry it's hot there, I know the feeling well. Can you beat Arizona's 110 degrees F? ^^

Oh no, I wasnt offended in any way?
I just mentioned it seeing as you put a lot of thought in it (maybe more then me at that time) and even made something already.

I watched the clip you made and it has some good potential! Obviously it needs editing and better encoding (interlaced lips :P ) but the joke might be better in yours.
Remember that the audio you hear is edited. The original only has 1 slap. That was the main reason I thought Deuce would pull the clip (we weren't allowed to edit the source).

And no, I can't beat the 110ºF (43ºC) because we're a quite northern country. Canada's British Columbia has about the same climate as we do over here.
It's still 33ºC (91.4ºF) in my room at the moment. Outside in the shadow it was about 39ºC (102 F) this week..
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Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby Deuce Loosely » Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:10 am

Just heard from sakuraslight and we agreed to the following:

I have removed all text from the DM clip except for the very end ("You'll swear by / AT it." with the APP logo). This way, anyone who is familiar with FMP will have found the joke before 3/4 through and the AMV enthusiasts in the crowd get their shot at the end. Two jokes in one clip.

Before Otakon, I am going to go through the rules and guidelines to amend and modify them according to this year's experience. First, I'm not setting a firm deadline until a few months before post-production. Regardless the amount of material I have at the end, I'm accepting no more entries past 24 hours after the deadline to allow for procrastinators. If I see a clip that may need a bit more something to make it fit into the theme, I'll consult with the author and we'll work something out. I probably won't have to worry as much for AMVS4, since the theme I'm probably going for is so easy.

Having said that, did we reach any kind of ruling on it being "TV Dinner" (television show clips and theme songs)? Did anyone else have another idea? The AMVS4 thread is going up on the MEP forum a week before Otakon so, unless I hear of something better, I'm just gonna go with the TV theme.

Hopefully, Mr.Pyson will remember which of these "final" versions to throw into the mix... :sweat:

*/dies*
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Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby Gaelstrom » Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:58 pm

krvabo wrote:I watched the clip you made and it has some good potential! Obviously it needs editing and better encoding (interlaced lips :P ) but the joke might be better in yours.
Remember that the audio you hear is edited. The original only has 1 slap. That was the main reason I thought Deuce would pull the clip (we weren't allowed to edit the source).


Glad you liked it. I dunno how to fix the lips, I grabbed MKVs quickly offline (I own the DVDs, nobody kills me!) and converted them using OJOSoft Total Video Converter, so it was my bad. I think I chose a bad format to convert to since the original is crisp. If you like it, and Deuce likes it and hasn't re-rendered yet, then I can convert the footage again and replace it quickly. I won't take credit for this though. Your idea, your show. This is what critique is to me, it's when potentials are tossed around with the 'two heads are better than one' methodology, and just because others may have improvement suggestions doesn't mean it's not your work.

So Deuce, your call. I'll have the section you'll need sent to you almost as soon as you give the word if it's a yes.

deuceloosely wrote:I have removed all text from the DM clip except for the very end ("You'll swear by / AT it." with the APP logo). This way, anyone who is familiar with FMP will have found the joke before 3/4 through and the AMV enthusiasts in the crowd get their shot at the end. Two jokes in one clip.


And I think that's an absolutely beautiful compromise. Too much information was overlapping originally. The way it sounds now from what you say, it comes off more as 'here's the joke... btw Premiere sucks' as reference to editing difficulty. I'd say that's a beautiful compromise. I still believe they've virtually no business together, but that's probably the best of both worlds as we can get it :D

deuceloosely wrote:Having said that, did we reach any kind of ruling on it being "TV Dinner" (television show clips and theme songs)? Did anyone else have another idea? The AMVS4 thread is going up on the MEP forum a week before Otakon so, unless I hear of something better, I'm just gonna go with the TV theme.


Well, my only issue is it's very general. I mean technically all AMVS's are filled with those too. Almost like me as an audience member would go "I thought these WERE doing that?". I must request that you don't try to latch onto a theme as much as just let AMVS be about the jokes themselves. This year hit a major snag because you wanted to add things the clips weren't designed for and ended up harming them. Don't get me wrong the experiment was sound and I was more than willing to see what happened with it, but for the most part it didn't work at all. For me, I have several more clips planned in the same vein as my slapstick ones, but will search for more theme-based ones this time now that I have more AMV experience.

IF you did TV Dinner, though, there would have to be much more focus put on a unifying overlay. You had 'SMOKE!' and now "Adult Swim" but next time would have to be calculated and unifying so that everyone on the project could make it an underlying 'plot' of sorts (Like STEAM). I can't think what would do that, but perhaps it could be something brought up in initial discussions on AMVS4's thread?
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Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby Gaelstrom » Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:00 pm

http://rapidshare.com/files/252009890/A ... e.rar.html

Hey Deuce, I forgot to mention, I took the liberty of PMing Dezbo21 a while ago asking if Now63 could be rerendered for you. I was informed that unfortunately Dezbo's computer crashed and lost all source files. However it turned out Dezbo posted the vid was posted on Spike.com for whatever reason. I was given the link:
http://ugcmedia.spike.com/video/now-tha ... -i/2768325

I went ahead and extracted the FLV and upped it with the video converter to 720x480 wanting to see if things were a little better to read even if it was lower quality in general, so I put that in the RAR as well. I included that so you could make the decision if you want to replace it or simply replace certain sections that have the worst problems or something. It's basically down to the choice between the lesser of two evils unless I went ahead and rotoscoped the text for Dezbo in AE and stroked it so it would be much clearer. Again, easy to do in short order but it would be totally up to you if you wanted it done (I could have it to you by tonight easily)

I figured out why the Azumanga thing had problems. It was progressive footage that After Effects was interpreting as single-layer, so it was horrid. It's fixed now.

These both may be too late, but I wanted to offer them as potentials either way since the weekend's not over just yet and there's a possibility you haven't done a final render yet ^^ The azumanga one, would need the original clip parts cut off and the new additions resized to match the rest, but other than that, should be fine.

Did the new Haruhi text fit in the area well enough?

Anyway, whatever happens, home stretch!
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Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby KojiroShinkara » Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:20 am

Sorry I haven't mentioned anything about this in...a long time. As far as comments went on the Andrew Ryan Clip, where Alucard is out of sync, I know, it's bothered me, and I played with that bit for about 2 hours before I just said fuck it.

Also, I'm not surprised that people (or a person) was surprised to see Harlock. It's classic, but everyone just seems to forget about Harlock, Gun Frontier, Galaxy Expressway, ect, ect. It's sad, the main guy who did it (His name currently escapes me) is a fantastic writer.
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Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby Gaelstrom » Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:39 pm

KojiroShinkara wrote:Sorry I haven't mentioned anything about this in...a long time. As far as comments went on the Andrew Ryan Clip, where Alucard is out of sync, I know, it's bothered me, and I played with that bit for about 2 hours before I just said fuck it.

Also, I'm not surprised that people (or a person) was surprised to see Harlock. It's classic, but everyone just seems to forget about Harlock, Gun Frontier, Galaxy Expressway, ect, ect. It's sad, the main guy who did it (His name currently escapes me) is a fantastic writer.


Up until relatively recently I think they were pretty difficult to get ahold of if you hadn't way back when. Now they seem to be on DVD, but we're also bombarded with recent things that are also very good, and/or just higher quality animation. It is sad, and I definitely want to delve into the classics, and in every case I've heard in my like 'something is classic for a reason.' ...except the idea of 'modern classic' is a bit disconcerting. Makes me feel old and feels like they're avoiding the prospect of time passing.
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Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby KojiroShinkara » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:00 pm

Gaelstrom wrote:
KojiroShinkara wrote:Sorry I haven't mentioned anything about this in...a long time. As far as comments went on the Andrew Ryan Clip, where Alucard is out of sync, I know, it's bothered me, and I played with that bit for about 2 hours before I just said fuck it.

Also, I'm not surprised that people (or a person) was surprised to see Harlock. It's classic, but everyone just seems to forget about Harlock, Gun Frontier, Galaxy Expressway, ect, ect. It's sad, the main guy who did it (His name currently escapes me) is a fantastic writer.


Up until relatively recently I think they were pretty difficult to get ahold of if you hadn't way back when. Now they seem to be on DVD, but we're also bombarded with recent things that are also very good, and/or just higher quality animation. It is sad, and I definitely want to delve into the classics, and in every case I've heard in my like 'something is classic for a reason.' ...except the idea of 'modern classic' is a bit disconcerting. Makes me feel old and feels like they're avoiding the prospect of time passing.


It's a great anime, and it's a long anime as well, The storylines and such are classic, they also happen to be kinda hard to watch in a marathon style. It's a great series, all of them, but they aren't like anime today, they aren't quite as action-packed, or cliche ridden, except for the cliches they themselves started.

Watch a couple episodes but it can be really hard to get into.
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Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby Gaelstrom » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:50 pm

So Deuce, what changes ended up making it into the final render and sent off this weekend? You mentioned several of thundercatlord's changes (did you fix the intro Haruhi text as well BTW?) but you haven't mentioned if you were able to render it and send it to Otakon/Mr. Pyson (badass name is badass... he needs to be an anime villain).

Edit: Gah! Why oh why didn't the 'Now yer thinkin' with yer Dipstick, Jimmy!' commercial come out two months ago!! Totally would have hijacked that...
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