AMV Salad 3: next stop - NekoCon 12...

This forum is for the announcement, organisation and discussion of Multi-Editor AMV Projects.

Re: AMV Salad 3: CLOSED for post-production

Postby Gaelstrom » Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:57 pm

deuceloosely wrote:Anyway, here's the info on the beta test.

Anime Mid Atlantic
Saturday, June 20
10pm
Panel 3 (Ballroom C)


Let us know how it goes Saturday night! See if you can monitor the reactions on the Match.com, Now63 and Gunther clips to see if they're as uncertain as I think they are in this case. Match.com can be salvaged easily by fixing the dance, but the Now63 one and more than likely the Gunther one (nothing personal krvabo) I think should be removed at least for this year. Now63 needs some critique and a second pass that it just won't get this year as long as Dezbo21 can't be reached. Have you tried yet, by the way? As for the Gunther clip, I think there are at least half a dozen better footage sources that are equally popular that would make it far far stronger, like School Rumble for example.
ImageImageImage
User avatar
Gaelstrom
 
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Status: Sending enemies to the next dimension

Re: AMV Salad 3: CLOSED for post-production

Postby krvabo » Sat Jun 20, 2009 6:32 am

It's not the anime that screws up the clip, it's the encoding.

I can't say it's an überfunny clip, but when encoded correctly it looks just fine.
I don't mind saying you dislike the clip, as do I, but saying another anime would solve the 'problem', no it won't.
If you don't know the clip, it cannot be funny. Thát's the real problem.
ImageImageImage
User avatar
krvabo
 
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Location: Netherlands / Holland

Re: AMV Salad 3: CLOSED for post-production

Postby Gaelstrom » Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:15 pm

Please let me explain what I mean and please feel free to disagree, I just want to clarify what I meant so there's no misunderstanding, and I'm not attacking you ^^ I sincerely believe the current footage is not the best choice. I DO think that the sound clip itself can be made funny regardless of having seen the source or not, including using Azumanga footage for it (like I said, I think there are better choices, but we'll stick with this), but your current choices don't seem to make sense even in collusion with each other right now. First off, you show a screen of something 90% of the audience will not know, maybe more, with the 'I want to be German' sound clip over it, then jump into Azumanga. I'm pretty sure you understand from an audience perspective how that jump doesn't make sense even having seen the source. Now a clip of HER saying she wants to be German would work if you could find some connective tissue that would make that fit her, but then she hits OTHER people (if we are taking into account the original source, it would be her who is hit), and that is too large a jump to make any sense connecting to why she wants to be German, especially if the commercial hasn't been seen. It's too disconnected even from itself to be amusing for me, because the German clip and pic jumping into Azumanga has me going 'what? why?' during the hitting scene, making me as an audience member not even care to try to follow along anymore because it left me behind at the beginning. Then the end frame doesn't even involve Tomo, so it's next to pointless when you think about where the clip began.

Here's a hypothetical solution. Understand that this is NOT me telling you how you should be doing it, this is just to clarify how you COULD connect it in a way the audience can follow along and unify the joke. Tomo would have a slightly scheming face when she would say 'I want to be German'. Now if you wanted to use the harisen slaps, then the 'Sheizer' would have to be said by another character (like Yomi) unless there were footage of Tomo being smacked by someone which would solve most of the disconnect problems. If you wanted to get really edgy about it, you could finish by going on 4chan and ask for one of the pictures of the Azumanga girls dressed as Nazis or something. I know they are considered communists there, but I think there's at least one of Osaka as a nazi ^^ I may choose to find a different slap sound as well to splice in for experimentation, because the source's slap has some very weird echoing and stark cut-off that made me go 'wtf was that!?' when i heard it in your clip, but it could be because of the Gunther/Tomo disconnect. Then at the end, I may spend some time masking in a photoshopped frame of Tomo in an outfit like Gunther or something if the Nazi Azumanga girls isn't fitting. That's not a great or efficient idea, but it would connect the initial statement with the ending, as well as connect the source for those who knew. One way or the other, I've no illusions that you chose a very difficult clip to pull off well. I'd go into deeper detail with potentials, but hopefully you get the idea.

My clips may not be great, but I made certain for each one that no matter what, at SOME level, the audience can get it without any idea what either of my chosen sources are, because leaving the audience behind will almost inevitably kill a joke. I do this stuff for work, so please don't think I'm picking on you, I'm just interested in critiquing like with my colleagues in order to help everyone truly enjoy your clip, since that is the point above all else, right?
ImageImageImage
User avatar
Gaelstrom
 
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Status: Sending enemies to the next dimension

Re: AMV Salad 3: CLOSED for post-production

Postby krvabo » Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:40 am

The first screen was just a filler to get people to know what clip they are listening too. I could not use the entire audio segment because I thought that would become boring. Also I wouldn't be able to find that many footage clips to fill that.

I know there is a bit of inconsistency, but it's tomo all the way. The 'sheiße' or 'sheisse' is German for 'shit'. It's meant to imply that she can't hit the bug that she is chasing. Yes, this deviates from the original clip and audio, but it's actually lip synced and a bit funny. Again, no ROFLMAOPIMP, but I thought it could be funny.
Of course, that's only when you know a bit of German. My country neighbors on Germany, so I might be biased in a way.

The last part is tomo being tossed into the air, but again, you might need to know German for this.
'Ja ja, die shönste auf der Welt, ist meine Barbara',
'Yes yes, the prettiest (girl) in the world is my Barbara'
That's why she is being tossed in the air..

But anyway, I'm a bit tired of defending a clip that in my opinion sucked just as hard as you think it did. It was the first dedicated clip I made for the salad and I thought I would get some feedback on the clip so I could edit it more. I never received so much as an e-mail from Deuce so that didn't happen. I see a post (in this topic) that we're not supposed to edit the commercial, but that's it. So I figured the clip was tossed away and I removed my source files.

Deuce, You might want to change the way you receive clips for the next salad. If you watch the clip the moment you read the e-mail, you can give a little bit of feedback on them. It makes the editors feel all that bit more appreciated ánd you might get better clips.
ImageImageImage
User avatar
krvabo
 
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Location: Netherlands / Holland

Re: AMV Salad 3: CLOSED for post-production

Postby Gaelstrom » Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:22 pm

krvabo wrote:The first screen was just a filler to get people to know what clip they are listening too. I could not use the entire audio segment because I thought that would become boring. Also I wouldn't be able to find that many footage clips to fill that.


I dunno, Tomo goes hot and cold a lot from what I remember, I think you could have made something work pretty easily, plus what you had there audio-wise was fine, you didn't need the whole clip, the screencap was just a disconnect I think because you were trying to hard to identify the clip with its source.

I knew what 'sheisse' meant, but I didn't know the spelling, sorry ^^ I didn't quite get that she was frustrated about the bug, because in the clip order you chose, she was apparently grinning pretty wide and cheering, that and she'd just hit the bug already (I think), so to me as the audience she basically said it out of nowhere at that point contradictory to her looking happy. Hehe, although finding a scene where Tomo ISN'T happy is a chore, I know.

Okay knowing the lyrics helps a bit ^^ I think this is what I meant by my trying to make sure the audience gets it regardless of source or not. That does make it a bit more amusing, but the problem is (besides this being shown in America, and let's face it, we as a country have so much diversity to deal with that we've almost given up on language) that for the audience, visually it's NOT Tomo. Visually, to people who've forgotten that the outline is Tomo or never knew it was her, it's a still shot of two guys with stuff in the background and we're left with a bit of a 'huh..?" feeling. That's what I was trying to convey.

Unfortunately, Deuce seemed quite distracted all around. I never got feedback or responses to my multiple e-mails beyond my first couple clips, and that was after weeks of several e-mails and it made me quite nervous. I recognize it's hard to hear critique sometimes, but I'm sorry I made you feel like you had to defend it. Like I said, I believe the clip could be made to be funny without having to rely on people knowing the source, but for now I guess it's just too late to pull that off this year. Hopefully next year Deuce will be able to communicate more and these problems can be nipped in the bud early on so it's not a last minute scramble.

AMVS2 was excellent, and I assume that's because of the communication, as well as two or three of the editors who did some of the best clips didn't contribute much/at all to this one. AMVS3, while containing some amusement, doesn't contain the epic credits, consistently good clips, and the potentially unifying elements don't unify as much as they could. The Law and Order knocks and the Adult Swim bumps in the same piece is kinda odd since they've nothing to do with one another. I think it'll be hard to match the 'song that gets on everybody's nerves' credits, but I have an idea for next year that may rival it a bit that I'll run by Deuce later.

How did AMVS3 perform last night, Deuce?
Last edited by Gaelstrom on Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
ImageImageImage
User avatar
Gaelstrom
 
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Status: Sending enemies to the next dimension

Re: AMV Salad 3: CLOSED for post-production

Postby Deuce Loosely » Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:16 am

Here it is...the first of a series of response summaries for AMVS3. You might be surprised at the results. Starting with the AMA "beta test audience,"...

1. Decent laughs for "match.com."
2. Good response for "Hold the Door."
3. "Pirates" surprised people because Harlock was used.
4. Good laughs for "I Wanna Destroy You."
5. "Fish Tank" was a favorite.
6. First text bumper got good laughs.
7. "Mudkips" got laughs.
8. Fantasy Viewing Schedule got cheers!
9. "Annoying" gained more favorable response and laughs the longer it went on, mainly because Linkin Park kept coming up on the list.
10. "Fail Hard" was a hit. The Intel thing at the end really drove it home.
11. The Wall-e clip got laughs.
12. "Don't Like Mondays" got some "OMG" and WTF" gasps.
13. "Excel HeadOn" did well, especially the Ilpillazzo twitch.
14. "Death Note Building" drew good laughs.
15. "FMAttell" was a BIG hit!
16. The Gundam "...awesome!" clip was a good draw.
17. They liked the Beck clip.
18. Another big hit (no pun intended) was "Because I Got High."
19. "Fruits Wearhouse" was a pleaser.
20. Viewing Schedule ("These are all lame") drew some agreement.
21. DBZ epic ending was also a favorite.
22. People were snapping along to krvabo's production tag. ;)
23. Everyone still laughs about maru-sha's production tag.

Everything else got an average response of assorted chuckles and snickers. No one left the room, even for the closing credits. I've found that the main part of our audience is made up of hardcore AMV watchers. This is good because they wait to see what anime was used in each clip when it's something they may not be familiar with. This project is reaching its true demographic in a good way.

krvabo: please for to re-encode your clips for me? I really think I'd like to have working copies of those to replace the obviously defective video. Make sure, though, that it's not the source video itself (not the anime, mind you) which is the problem. If it came straight from DVD - not downloaded - then it probably is a problem with encoding.

I haven't heard back from Otakon about switching out for the cleaned-up AMVS3. It won't surprise me if they say it's too short on time until the showing but we'll see...
AMV Coordinator
Katsucon 2012 - present
Zenkaikon 2013 - present
Anime Mid Atlantic 2010 - 13
Nekocon 2013
IchibanCon 2014

Executive Producer: AMV Salad 1 - 6
AMV Salad 7 is currently in production...
User avatar
Deuce Loosely
 
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Status: Herding wild marshmallows

Re: AMV Salad 3: CLOSED for post-production

Postby Gaelstrom » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:00 am

I admit, the 'Annoying' clip response surprises me a bit, but I realized it's mainly because I stopped reading since it was painful for me. I still believe it's very important to try and fix the text up if we can, but if it still lands as you say, then I'm very happy. I don't really care how it's funny, I just want it to be funny for them ^^ On a related note, did the artifacting text and such not cause as much problems on the big screen? (I still think we should fix the dance loop in 'match' though, I think it'll get a slight boost to laughter without that distraction)

And I gotta say thanks a lot. I can't believe all nine of my clips got a good response, so I'm very happy about that. The only two things I really would like you to do for my clips is the test pattern after Fish Tank cutting it off a half beat after it like I mentioned, and I really would appreciate, if you haven't already, quickly syncing up the Death Note building dialogue to the mouth flaps in hopes of the Otakon switch. My friends who beta'd for me saw an older version that had off audio and agreed it harmed the joke. If it causes syncing issues elsewhere for whatever reason, just cut off some of the beginning establishing shot. Hehe, and if you care to wade into the credits briefly, I think you'll get another quick laugh potentially if you change the "Heero is insane!' title to "An Heero" for the /b/tards out there.

And I'm glad your bumps did well too! I still believe those small changes I mentioned will draw in a little more of the audience, but I am glad it was favorable for them.

Sounds like things went pretty well. I hope Otakon will respond favorably. Isn't all you need a new DVD that you can drop off at the start of the con and replace the old one and be done with it? If not, I'm game for some ninjutsu to replace them secretly if you are ^^
ImageImageImage
User avatar
Gaelstrom
 
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Status: Sending enemies to the next dimension

Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby Deuce Loosely » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:13 pm

This video is over 21:30 in length.

I'm rendering a new copy to mp4.

I'm looking at the resulting file size.

:shock:

Is it typical for something of this size to come out under 100mb?
AMV Coordinator
Katsucon 2012 - present
Zenkaikon 2013 - present
Anime Mid Atlantic 2010 - 13
Nekocon 2013
IchibanCon 2014

Executive Producer: AMV Salad 1 - 6
AMV Salad 7 is currently in production...
User avatar
Deuce Loosely
 
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Status: Herding wild marshmallows

Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby Gaelstrom » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:34 pm

Judging solely by the fact that 24-minute fansubbed anime is often 170 megs, I wouldn't doubt it, but that's my only reasoning on the matter. Also, I dunno if vegas does this too, but in After Effects if I render in mp4 it shifts the audio a bit (hence why I had to use premier to re-allign it for the ones I sent). I reeeeaaally wish I knew why the hell it did that.
ImageImageImage
User avatar
Gaelstrom
 
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Status: Sending enemies to the next dimension

Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby krvabo » Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:12 am

MP4-encodes can be smaller (110MB for 20 minutes CAN look good), but with the many color and scene changes the encode should not be smaller than let's say, 180-200 MB.

Annnnyway, the encodes I sent you a while back weren't sufficient then?
The 2 clips I remade should be good, but the re-encodes might still be a problem.

The problem might then still consist in:
- Gunther (but I hope you have removed that one)
- What if god was one of us.

If you encode it in huffy en then use it in the editing program, do the ghost frames still come up?
Otherwise I need to remake the entire clip from scratch, and I don't even know if I've still got the source files (anime) :P
Might make it a bit shorter then to get to the 'joke' faster.

If I need to remake something, I'm listening :P
ImageImageImage
User avatar
krvabo
 
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Location: Netherlands / Holland

Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby Deuce Loosely » Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:32 pm

If you haven't already done so, you all need to check your "Member Main Page" for confirmation that you are part of this project. So far, on;y two of the eleven have responded. Get crackin', kids...
AMV Coordinator
Katsucon 2012 - present
Zenkaikon 2013 - present
Anime Mid Atlantic 2010 - 13
Nekocon 2013
IchibanCon 2014

Executive Producer: AMV Salad 1 - 6
AMV Salad 7 is currently in production...
User avatar
Deuce Loosely
 
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Status: Herding wild marshmallows

Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby Gaelstrom » Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:12 pm

Just confirmed it.

Could you tell me if you've to done any of the changes I asked for like the Fish tank test pattern and audio sync? Also I forgot to include the removing of the 'mac and PC' text from the To Heart clip now that it has the Intel logo to make it a commercial. If the Intel logo carried the joke on Saturday, I'm certain it's because the Mac and PC text prepped everyone subconsciously for Multi's crash and ruined some of the impact. The Intel logo should be icing, not the joke.
ImageImageImage
User avatar
Gaelstrom
 
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Status: Sending enemies to the next dimension

Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby Deuce Loosely » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:39 pm

I'm such a doofus.

I forgot to tell y'all...

we has mp4 download!

I have time between now and whenever to tweak the video further if it's absolutely necessary, but it looked better from DVD through a projector and on TV than it did on my computer. And no apparent sound / video lag after render...
AMV Coordinator
Katsucon 2012 - present
Zenkaikon 2013 - present
Anime Mid Atlantic 2010 - 13
Nekocon 2013
IchibanCon 2014

Executive Producer: AMV Salad 1 - 6
AMV Salad 7 is currently in production...
User avatar
Deuce Loosely
 
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Status: Herding wild marshmallows

Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby Gaelstrom » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:58 pm

I thought you wanted to wait until after Otakon to post it on the org so it would only be available there for its initial viewing other than the beta on Saturday?
ImageImageImage
User avatar
Gaelstrom
 
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Status: Sending enemies to the next dimension

Re: AMV Salad 3: the tour begins at Otakon

Postby Deuce Loosely » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:35 pm

Gaelstrom wrote:I thought you wanted to wait until after Otakon to post it on the org so it would only be available there for its initial viewing other than the beta on Saturday?

I eventually decided to show the org as a beta test before showing it in public anywhere. Had I not done this, I would have continued to wander aimlessly with the encoding and other issues that existed. This place is very useful for finding advice for cleaning up potential visual disasters. Anyway, I was more concerned about parts of this thing going to a public place like YT before post-production, never mind the big premiere. But you can't DL a good copy from there. Anyway, anyone who gets the Salad from here and enjoys it enough will attend a screening with lots of others if it's at their convention...
AMV Coordinator
Katsucon 2012 - present
Zenkaikon 2013 - present
Anime Mid Atlantic 2010 - 13
Nekocon 2013
IchibanCon 2014

Executive Producer: AMV Salad 1 - 6
AMV Salad 7 is currently in production...
User avatar
Deuce Loosely
 
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Status: Herding wild marshmallows

PreviousNext

Return to Multi-Editor Projects

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest