ProjeKct Life

This forum is for the announcement, organisation and discussion of Multi-Editor AMV Projects.

Postby badmartialarts » Tue Oct 12, 2004 8:24 am

Yes, without the Decimate(5) line, it stays 29.97. BUT! Then you have replicated frames, which makes the video look 'jerky'. The easiest way to edit at 29.97 (assuming fairly decent telecined source that doesn't need fancier deinterlacing) is the following:

Telecide(order=1)
Decimate(5)
AssumeFPS(29.97)

This speeds the source up a bit but that's usually not that big of a deal (if you want a more accurate speed change, you can use ConvertFPS(29.97) but it will create the two extra frames by blending frames together, and at least for me doing lipsyncing and stuff, that is not acceptable). Also, ConvertFPS is far slower than AssumeFPS, which is already slowing the script down some (my computer is fast enough that it's not a big issue, but it might be for others).

Another way to do it is with a frame-blending or field deinterlacer like FieldDeinterlace() or AreaBasedDeinterlace(). They maintain the original framerate and don't create replicated frames, but they can create blended/weird looking frames that aren't always acceptable for very accurate beat syncing. That's just my opinion though....
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Postby jasper-isis » Tue Oct 12, 2004 6:34 pm

Telecide(order=1)
Decimate(5)
AssumeFPS(29.97)


I wont have any problems with using that script, as my current settings are almost the same, replacing "29.97" with "24."

However, if we do any frame-by-frame editing or original animation (as it sounds like Pen-pen is doing), then 24fps would be the less tedious option.

I borrowed Hoshi no Koe (Voices of a Distant Star) from krzT today and rewatched it. And wow, the scenery was more beautiful than I had remembered. The action-oriented scenes were wonderfully fluid as well. I may want to work HnK into the project somehow. It would probably fit well in sections D/U or F.

Macross Plus (the movie) is another anime that might work well in those sections. For those of you who have seen it, I'm thinking about the Sharon Apple Earth concert scenes in particular. A lot of the imagery there would complement the music nicely.

Tomrrow, I'm going to sift through my Full Metal Panic DVDs and note some of the series' more profound scenes. Thinking about this project always makes me so excited! :P
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Postby Toji Fujawara » Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:24 pm

hay if you guys still need editors im in....just let me know what you need and im up for it.
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Postby Otohiko » Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:55 pm

Well, we're still in decision/concept stage here, no concrete set-up as yet. All we know so far is that we have this really great piece of music that needs an AMV, and that the AMV should at least try being more than cool explosive footage.
How to get to that latter point is what is under consideration now. I have no idea yet, myself - hope Pen-pen might :roll:
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Postby pen-pen2002 » Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:02 pm

I'm working on it. I'll have something more concrete by sat.

For now I have a few thoughts:

I just saw project Kut-Up and I think we can learn a few things. I don't want to step on any toes but I think while there were some awesome segments the overall project lacked a bit in cohesion and had trouble holding my interest. (I actually stopped halfway the first time I watched it, the second time it was more interesting.) One thing it made me think about was that we might want to be very careful with any comedy sections as they really break up the rhythm of a serious vid and are hard to follow. Also it shows the dangers of pure action intermixed with little story segments (like the memories section.)

Also those of you who have seen 13'37" I have also looked to this video for inspiration (It's 13 minutes long.) It doesn't have a lot of cuts but instead has a slower feel for most of it. It maintains interest by having an overall progression to it. Both in plot and in footage; it begins in black and white with a lot of adjusted contrast and the footage keeps changing throughout the video. (I almost said movie, isn't that weird. :lol: ) It also uses text to donate some of the sections, which is something we could look into.

Another think is we could split the video into large sections (2:00) and make each of them somewhat congruent internally and only have a loose overall theme.

I need to do my midsem now....
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Postby Otohiko » Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:27 pm

pen-pen2002 wrote:Also those of you who have seen 13'37" I have also looked to this video for inspiration (It's 13 minutes long.) It doesn't have a lot of cuts but instead has a slower feel for most of it. It maintains interest by having an overall progression to it. Both in plot and in footage; it begins in black and white with a lot of adjusted contrast and the footage keeps changing throughout the video. (I almost said movie, isn't that weird. :lol: ) It also uses text to donate some of the sections, which is something we could look into.

Another think is we could split the video into large sections (2:00) and make each of them somewhat congruent internally and only have a loose overall theme.

I need to do my midsem now....


13'37" is definitely very likely to be the longest vid among my favorites, when it gets out, seeing how I think it gets the idea of a 13-minute video right, yet in a different sense than I might have imagined (which is sort of what you descrived).

I think there's really a huge difference in terms of requirements between that particular piece and 'When The Water Breaks', since what we have here is a much heavier and drama-oriented piece. I'm really impressed with how rose got the long cuts to work in his video, but I'm skeptical about them working here, because the music is 1) much busier 2) more shall we say... defined? prominent? tight?

That was actually something that really hit me when I first heard this, because knowing Tony Levin's background (you knew I had to bring King Crimson to my argument eventually :P), I thought LTE would also be really loose and go into weird harmony/rhythm (or no harmony/rhythm) like KC tends to do with their improvs - and these guys instead sounded almost composed, and incredibly melodic. As opposed to KC's improv 'structure in chaos'/'hidden structure', what I'm hearing here is a lot of overt structure on even the smallest levels. It's a good thing, and can do wonders for the impact of the video on a wider public, but I think it'll require a certain amount of well-organized visual structure to match.

Am I making any sense, or perhaps instead stating the all-too obvious? :roll:

***

Anyways, good luck with studying.
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Postby pen-pen2002 » Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:37 pm

You bring up some good points. Yes the peice is a lot tighter. I read somewhere that it was written as a "composed improv." I think your right about the tighter structure. One thing we have going for us is that it is more dramatic than an action oriented song. This will make it easier to make the difrent sections of the visual structure (whatever that turns out to be) very distinct and meaningfull.
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Postby Otohiko » Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:46 pm

Well, structure also means things like, at the most basic, good beat/cut sync. I don't think the fast guitar solos will go too far on long cuts or just mood sync/meaning and whatnot.

I've started experimenting with editing again lately by the way (after taking a 1.5 month break, from another failed experiment at that), and haven't really come up with anything good... I'm trying to get a bit of project-relevant footage, and maybe at least start another AMV with it before getting into the project-editing phase, just so I'm comfortable with the footage and editing approach before getting into this.
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Postby Otohiko » Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:24 pm

Alright, looks like I found a source that will definitely have to be in the project one way or other - Arjuna. I mean, among other things, the show has an episode that deals with the whole question of birth, with er - a couple of scenes of people being born, to boot. And there are a lot of good visuals that will go with anything from slow and ambient to rather fast (guitar solos included).
I'll probably try playing around with the footage on my own a little, see if anything comes up that would be well-associated with specific segments...
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Postby pen-pen2002 » Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:22 am

Arjuna would be a great anime for this project. I haven't actually seen it yet but from the AMV's I've caught it appears to be very symbolic in a straightforward sort of way. Very pretty animation as well.

As far as general anime choices go, A lot is going to depend on the theme but "profound moments" as Jasper put it, and well drawn or even stunning visuals are definitely ideals. We're definitely looking for a higher class of anime here.
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Postby Bakadeshi [AuN Studios] » Fri Oct 15, 2004 7:26 am

pen-pen2002 wrote:Arjuna would be a great anime for this project. I haven't actually seen it yet but from the AMV's I've caught it appears to be very symbolic in a straightforward sort of way. Very pretty animation as well.

As far as general anime choices go, A lot is going to depend on the theme but "profound moments" as Jasper put it, and well drawn or even stunning visuals are definitely ideals. We're definitely looking for a higher class of anime here.


hmm I do have arjuna... or rather my brother does, so I could get my grubby hands on it.... well the first 3 DVDs anyway.
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Postby Shivan003 » Fri Oct 15, 2004 9:34 am

I would like to join this project if that's still a possibility. I already did a little bit of editting to the KK-LL segment using Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust. If you want I can upload it to my studio's server and show you, just msg me on AIM. My sn is: NSX003 Thanks.
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Postby taeli » Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:00 pm

I really like section E, 1:51-2:56. In my head it makes nices images with the scenery of I Can Hear the Sea (Ocean Waves). Which is a chilled out Ghibli reminiscent romance. While some of the characters animation isn't as detailed as some of the other later Ghiblis, the backgrounds are beautifully drawn with lots of wide angle (?) shots and pretty pretty colours! ^_^ There isn't any supernatural in this film either - and all the locations are based on real locations in Japan.

I'd love to be allowed to do this, even if admittedly I lack both the editing skills and dedication of a certain few editors here already - :roll:
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Postby Otohiko » Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:17 pm

To both of you - hey, sure, if you can do something, and have an idea for a segment already, I think that could be good.

Heh, I think the best idea is to wait for pen-pen to start assigning tracks. I'm still up for that one I mentioned from the beginning, but I won't know whether I can get it done like I hoped to until I try...
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Postby pen-pen2002 » Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:55 pm

Sorry this has taken so long. I’ve had some “real life” stuff to deal with that’s left me a bit shaken but without further ado: the plan.

Option 1: Wasteland style abstraction.

For this route we concentrate on representing the music visually and maintaining high levels of variety. Lots of movement and color, very little character and plot elements. Segments will be short and distinctive.

Pros:
Much easier to do, very little planning required. May require less cognitive attention and therefore be easier to watch. Very few limitations on source beyond aesthetic concerns.

Cons:
Would be better with more editors. May seem very long. Less accessible to the average AMV viewer/more artistic.

Compare with:
DDR Project, but less effects based. Reflections of style. Actually the best comparison would probably be The Children Project but without the strong theme. (we could try for a theme, but it might get repetitive.)

Option 2: ProjeKct Life

One of the older names for this project gave me an idea. It is the exact opposite of option 1, instead of visuals driven it is story based and character driven. I thought long and hard about possible plots that could encompass a song this large and I only came up with one. Instead of picking scenes that embody “life” we pick scenes that show a life. We construct a plot from an episodic account of a lifetime.

For example:

Beginning: Infantile happiness.
0:40: childhood trauma
1:03 first crush
1:26 heatbreak
1:52: ????? Slow build up.
2:59: Goal/mission/ideal
4:15 ?????
4:48: Chaos. Upheaval. Doubt.
5:40 Anger, betrayal.
6:29: character 1 (I will elaborate on this later)
7:08: character 2
7:28: character 3
7:49: mediation/character 4
8:20 anything goes, there’s a lot we could put here.
10:08 True Love/major success
12:50 child stolen/anger (the piano breaks could be flashbacks)
etc.

Pros:
More viewable, could end up being something spectacular. Can be done with any number of editors. Several ideas could be used even if the option is scraped, see bold entries.

Cons:
More restrictive, more communication, more planning, might fail outright, less pretty, harder editing, longer sections, etc, etc, etc.

Compare to:
Nothing I’ve ever seen or heard of. (that may be the biggest pro right there.)

What do you guys think?
Last edited by pen-pen2002 on Tue Oct 26, 2004 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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