Evil? At least Tiffany Grant can pronounce German properly.Bardiel13 wrote:For the last time, people! Forget everything you heard in the english dub of EoE! Asuka's final line was "I feel sick." SICK!!! Stop watching the dub, it's EVIL!!!
The End of Evangelion AKA 25 & 26 [Spoilers]
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beedee
- Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 8:54 pm
- Location: Wellington, New Zealand
The world is not spherical today
<a href="http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... =90487">My Second AMV! A Guide on how to spot a Shounen Main Character.</a>
<a href="http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... =90487">My Second AMV! A Guide on how to spot a Shounen Main Character.</a>
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Zalis
- Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:30 am
I just recently watched End of Eva, and to some extent, I really did like the TV episode 25-26 ending better. (Of course, nothing beats the last line of the Eva ReDeath fandub parody, when Asuka says (in a Terminator voice) "Shinji, let's make out" during that same scene 
) The doujinshi To Heart/dating sim-esque scene was pretty funny, especially since it was so out of character to the rest of the show. I've heard "Kimochi warui" in other anime, like in Fruits Basket episode 25:
気持良い (kimochi ii) is often heard when characters get into hot springs or other pleasant situations, translated as "This is great" or "this feels so nice."
So, in sum, though I didn't watch the dub, I'd say "I feel sick" is not a good translation, since Asuka's line is a reaction to what Shinji was doing. If it was "I feel sick," the word "byouki" probably would have been involved.
Also, on that circle diagram/tree of life--it's the same set of circles and names that you can see in Gendou's office and in the opening credits, with names of all the angels.
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) The doujinshi To Heart/dating sim-esque scene was pretty funny, especially since it was so out of character to the rest of the show. I've heard "Kimochi warui" in other anime, like in Fruits Basket episode 25:The kanji in the line, 気持悪い, mean feeling/holding/bad. Most of the time, descriptive words come before what they modify, but in many cases, warui (bad) and ii (good) come after, as in 頭が良い (atama ga ii=head good=smart) and 頭が悪い (atama ga warui=head bad=stupid)When it shows flashbacks of Kyo's reversion as a child to his true form, we hear Akito saying "Kimochi warui", translated as "how disgusting" or something like that
気持良い (kimochi ii) is often heard when characters get into hot springs or other pleasant situations, translated as "This is great" or "this feels so nice."
So, in sum, though I didn't watch the dub, I'd say "I feel sick" is not a good translation, since Asuka's line is a reaction to what Shinji was doing. If it was "I feel sick," the word "byouki" probably would have been involved.
Also, on that circle diagram/tree of life--it's the same set of circles and names that you can see in Gendou's office and in the opening credits, with names of all the angels.
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Digitalex
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 11:37 am
- Location: New Jersey
There seems to be an even distribution of fans for each ending. Even though I am pretty much in the middle as far as which ending I like better, I subscribe to the idea that both endings are complementary. The TV ending is focused more on Shinji and EoE is more global. EoE expands on the TV series (as it should since the TV ending was prodcuced that way for political and financial reasons).Zalis wrote:I just recently watched End of Eva, and to some extent, I really did like the TV episode 25-26 ending better. (Of course, nothing beats the last line of the Eva ReDeath fandub parody, when Asuka says (in a Terminator voice) "Shinji, let's make out" during that same scene
Interesting analysis Zalis! I wish I understood Japanese. The final line's translation has always been debated and I also feel "disgusting" is the more appropriate term. Also, I stated earlier since a pronoun (watashi or some equivalent) was not used, I believe the translation lends itself more to someone being disgusted (with a situation) rather than the person's state of health (although we can see she was still bandaged).I've heard "Kimochi warui" in other anime, like in Fruits Basket episode 25:The kanji in the line, 気持悪い, mean feeling/holding/bad. Most of the time, descriptive words come before what they modify, but in many cases, warui (bad) and ii (good) come after, as in 頭が良い (atama ga ii=head good=smart) and 頭が悪い (atama ga warui=head bad=stupid)When it shows flashbacks of Kyo's reversion as a child to his true form, we hear Akito saying "Kimochi warui", translated as "how disgusting" or something like that
気持良い (kimochi ii) is often heard when characters get into hot springs or other pleasant situations, translated as "This is great" or "this feels so nice."
So, in sum, though I didn't watch the dub, I'd say "I feel sick" is not a good translation, since Asuka's line is a reaction to what Shinji was doing. If it was "I feel sick," the word "byouki" probably would have been involved.
Also, on that circle diagram/tree of life--it's the same set of circles and names that you can see in Gendou's office and in the opening credits, with names of all the angels.
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EmilLang1000
- Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:10 pm
- Location: In yer base, killin' yer dudes!!!
Well, like most languages, a direct translation is nearly impossible. "Disgusting" and "I feel sick" aren't really all that different, though in english for them to have the same connotation is a bit of a stretch.
So let's stick with the original Japanese phrase. First of all, because of its ambiguity in this situation (it can be interperated in either respect in Japanese as well - a double entendre), it can be - and probably does - mean several things all at once.
Taken in the context to mean, "sickness of the self" ('Disgusting,' when refering to herself, as in 'I'm disgusting,' or 'what I feel is disgusting,' i.e., 'I feel sick'), could mean that what she feels, the fact that she's come to terms with her feelings for Shinji, makes her sick. This comes from the idea that either she hates the fact that she realizes she's in love with Shinji, whom she sees as weak, or that she realizes that she relies on him, and hates herself because she's so weak that she relies on someone for support who's weak himself. For almost the entire series, Asuka has hated Shinji for his psychological weakness, envied and dispised him for his skill in piloting 01, and - though perhaps not actually loved him - relied on him as a replacement for placing her affections for when Kaji was not around. Asuka believes herself to be able to stand alone, needing no one's moral support, and having shut out all other people accept Kaji, hates to finally admit that she does, like everyone, actually needs support form someone, even someone so frail as Shinji.
Perhaps one other scenario, stemming from this idea, is that she feels disgusted by herself because she feels a need to be with Shinji, despite the fact that he just threatened her life - or, if she were totally conscious during the opening scene, Shinji's pseudo-rape of her. Her disgust may come from her identification herself with her mother in that momen; Her father left her mother, hurting her more than anyone else, and yet for all that he hurt her, she loved him unequivically and unyieldingly. She sees her mother's own weakness in her - the need to be with someone, no matter how much that person hurts you - and so hates herself.
A final interpretation of "Disgusting," the conotation of "that is disgusting," is more obvious: as she views Shinji crying, she finds the idea of a man crying repulsive. This seems, perhaps, a little more in line with Asuka's mentallity. Asuka, while believing herself more in tune with the world than either Rei or Shinji, actually is more blind to reality than either; she believes the world exists in blacks and whites, especially that men should be strong, and never cry or be frail. It never occurs to her that Shinji has good reasons for crying: his father and surrogate mother are dead, the only person with whom he identified (Rei) is gone, his best friends are gone, and the only person who openly showed affection for him died by his own hands.
Or perhaps, it is a combination. Komichi Warui could, perhaps - and knowing Anno this is very possible - be meant as "This is disgusting," "this" being all things - the entire situation; thus, a feeling of all-around disgust. A feeling of disgust for herself and her own weakness in her need to rely on a weakling, a disgust for her similarity to her mother in that she has an unending reliance on someone whom has hurt her conitually, her disgust for Shinji's reaction, and her disgust for the situation as a whole.
Perhaps "Disgusting" is more accurate for Komichi Warui in this use, because although "I feel sick" may be appropriate for how Asuka physically feels, "Disgusting" fits more in the mood and meaning behind her final words; it is not so much a feeling of physical nausea as a feeling of disgust for several things, all occuring at once. It seems more probable that Evangelion's writers, whom up until then had used double entendres several times, would find it much more artistic and appropriate to use Komichi Warui to describe the situation as a whole from her perspective, one final literary backflip, perhaps, to make the audience think about its meaning.
So let's stick with the original Japanese phrase. First of all, because of its ambiguity in this situation (it can be interperated in either respect in Japanese as well - a double entendre), it can be - and probably does - mean several things all at once.
Taken in the context to mean, "sickness of the self" ('Disgusting,' when refering to herself, as in 'I'm disgusting,' or 'what I feel is disgusting,' i.e., 'I feel sick'), could mean that what she feels, the fact that she's come to terms with her feelings for Shinji, makes her sick. This comes from the idea that either she hates the fact that she realizes she's in love with Shinji, whom she sees as weak, or that she realizes that she relies on him, and hates herself because she's so weak that she relies on someone for support who's weak himself. For almost the entire series, Asuka has hated Shinji for his psychological weakness, envied and dispised him for his skill in piloting 01, and - though perhaps not actually loved him - relied on him as a replacement for placing her affections for when Kaji was not around. Asuka believes herself to be able to stand alone, needing no one's moral support, and having shut out all other people accept Kaji, hates to finally admit that she does, like everyone, actually needs support form someone, even someone so frail as Shinji.
Perhaps one other scenario, stemming from this idea, is that she feels disgusted by herself because she feels a need to be with Shinji, despite the fact that he just threatened her life - or, if she were totally conscious during the opening scene, Shinji's pseudo-rape of her. Her disgust may come from her identification herself with her mother in that momen; Her father left her mother, hurting her more than anyone else, and yet for all that he hurt her, she loved him unequivically and unyieldingly. She sees her mother's own weakness in her - the need to be with someone, no matter how much that person hurts you - and so hates herself.
A final interpretation of "Disgusting," the conotation of "that is disgusting," is more obvious: as she views Shinji crying, she finds the idea of a man crying repulsive. This seems, perhaps, a little more in line with Asuka's mentallity. Asuka, while believing herself more in tune with the world than either Rei or Shinji, actually is more blind to reality than either; she believes the world exists in blacks and whites, especially that men should be strong, and never cry or be frail. It never occurs to her that Shinji has good reasons for crying: his father and surrogate mother are dead, the only person with whom he identified (Rei) is gone, his best friends are gone, and the only person who openly showed affection for him died by his own hands.
Or perhaps, it is a combination. Komichi Warui could, perhaps - and knowing Anno this is very possible - be meant as "This is disgusting," "this" being all things - the entire situation; thus, a feeling of all-around disgust. A feeling of disgust for herself and her own weakness in her need to rely on a weakling, a disgust for her similarity to her mother in that she has an unending reliance on someone whom has hurt her conitually, her disgust for Shinji's reaction, and her disgust for the situation as a whole.
Perhaps "Disgusting" is more accurate for Komichi Warui in this use, because although "I feel sick" may be appropriate for how Asuka physically feels, "Disgusting" fits more in the mood and meaning behind her final words; it is not so much a feeling of physical nausea as a feeling of disgust for several things, all occuring at once. It seems more probable that Evangelion's writers, whom up until then had used double entendres several times, would find it much more artistic and appropriate to use Komichi Warui to describe the situation as a whole from her perspective, one final literary backflip, perhaps, to make the audience think about its meaning.
You know what they say: "when life gives you a T-Rex, go ninja-kick it in the head." - Rayne Summers, Least I Could Do
Proud to be a Jenova's Witness - WWSD (What Would Sephiroth Do?)
Proud to be a Jenova's Witness - WWSD (What Would Sephiroth Do?)
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Digitalex
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 11:37 am
- Location: New Jersey
Nice breakdown of the possibilities.
I definitely feel "disgusting" is the more appropriate term. The interesting things are the debates on it's absolute meaning and how we will never really know. However, it's very likely that "disgusting" was meant to encompass multiple events that occurred throughout the series although there are hints about which meaning it leans towards more.
I definitely feel "disgusting" is the more appropriate term. The interesting things are the debates on it's absolute meaning and how we will never really know. However, it's very likely that "disgusting" was meant to encompass multiple events that occurred throughout the series although there are hints about which meaning it leans towards more.
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*pUfFpUfF*mAgIcDrAgOn
- Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:28 pm
- Location: Tacoma, WA
personally i found this show too confusing for my liking. The ending was really deep and the main character, Shinji, was waay to emo. 
dicks like pussies, but pussies dont like dicks cuz pussies get fucked by dicks. Then theres assholes, nobody likes assholes cuz they get shit everywhere. ***MAAATTT DAAAAMONN***
