Neon Genesis Evangelion - Episode 19 ("Introjection&quo

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Neon Genesis Evangelion - Episode 19 ("Introjection&quo

Postby GloryQuestor » Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:50 am

In this episode, we see Shinji finally stand up for himself against his father, and it does bring up an interesting question:

How many people think that Shinji was right in what he did? (I put a spoiler below if you haven't seen this episode.)

Spoiler:
After Eva Unit 01 kills the 13th Angel (Eva Unit 03) and crushes the entry plug that contains the Fourth Child (Toji Suzahara, one of Shinji's best friends), he stays in Unit 01 and threatens to destroy NERV.

His father activated the dummy plug system that automated his Eva and caused the injury of his best friend, and Shinji felt as if it were his hands that did it (the synchronizaton units were still active).

In retribution of his son's "petulant child" actions, he forces Shinji out of the entry plug.

Since then, he sounded much more sure of himself. He finally realized he truly hates his father, and decides to turn his back on NERV. His father accuses him of "running away again" and that they will "most likely never meet again". Shinji tells him "That's fine with me."
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Postby supersayian313 » Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:32 pm

i have a question, why in the end of evangelion movie did shinji choke aska? didnt get that part. :twisted:
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Postby Otohiko » Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:40 pm

I thought he was right, BUT:
We really don't know whether there was a 'nicer' way to stop the angel in this case.
If there was, Shinji was most certainly right. If there wasn't... perhaps it was for the best, I mean the guy did at least survive.

The "what ifs" aren't really a good approach to anything though. We can speculate, but that's about it.

Granted, I don't resent his reaction at all. Add to that, I always thought of Gendo as a villain of sorts in the story.
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Postby GloryQuestor » Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:37 pm

supersayian313 wrote:i have a question, why in the end of evangelion movie did shinji choke aska? didnt get that part. :twisted:


To pose a theory to your question (even though it's OT with the thread):

Right now, we are in Shinji's mind. This is where the whole thing has been taking place -- all of it was just his mind creating an alternate universe (the "dream"), with the later scenes filmed in real Japan as "reality". Keep that in mind when you read the following theory.

Asuka represents facing a part of his own self -- all three women (Asuka, Misato, and Rei) really were pieces of the same person. He shouts out for someone, anyone, to help him, to care about him, and comfort him. Asuka, as a part of his own voice, says "no". All the hate, the rage, everything that he felt towards himself, he acts out by choking Asuka. It becomes the key to his acceptance of the dream and leads to his return to reality.


Again, the above is only a theory. What it "officially" means is still up for interpretation, and the commentary wasn't very helpful in explaining this particular moment, IIRC.

Still, this is the reason that makes sense when compared to the intent of the director and the writer (and in comparison with the original ending of the series).
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Postby supersayian313 » Sun Feb 20, 2005 1:26 am

i guess that makes sense.
i think im going to watch the whole series again. :twisted:
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Postby Chloe_666 » Sun Feb 20, 2005 4:32 am

Well back to the topic

I think Gendo has a point in what he was doing...
In my opinion the angel had to be stoped, because if not, the whole world world have been destroyed.
So with Asuka and Rei down and Shinji unable to fight there was only this way left.
On the other side it was good that Shinji finaly confronted his father and accepted the hate he felt for him :roll:


BTW: Did Toshi realy survive? I'm not realy sure ...:?
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Postby GloryQuestor » Sun Feb 20, 2005 11:05 am

Chloe_666 wrote:BTW: Did Toshi realy survive? I'm not realy sure ...:?


Spoiler:
Toji's in the hospital bed in Episode 19, next to Shinji, who was put into unconsciousness in order to force him out of the entry plug. Toji is missing an arm and a leg from the crushing of the Eva Unit 03 entry plug, but he is still alive.


If you want a good continuation of Toji's story, you might want to check out the fan-fiction EVA-R (Click here to view the EVA-R website).
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Postby Chloe_666 » Sun Feb 20, 2005 11:50 am

ah thank you :D

I was a little confused, because its a bit ago that I watched the series the last time :wink:
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Postby DTJB » Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:28 pm

This is a good question to think about. In a way, it does show that Shinji is making his own decisions and going against what others want from him, but after reading the manga version, something else comes to mind.

In the manga version, Gendo brings up an idea that could have been further brought out in the anime version as well. Why then, didn't Shinji at least defend himself and not fight altogether? If he had, maybe the events that played out wouldn't have happened, and Toji wouldn't have ended up the way he did.
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Postby GloryQuestor » Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:20 pm

Another thing about this episode is that this one and Episode 20 create a very big production flub.

At the end of Episode 19, remember that Shinji was fighting the 14th Angel in his regular clothes. That makes sense, after all -- he didn't have a lot of time to change after all.

Guess what? A camera shot into Eva Unit 01 in Episode 20 reveals that Shinji is now missing -- and only his plug suit remains!

Where did that come from? He was wearing normal clothes, and wasn't a part of NERV, so wouldn't have worn it underneath.

Also, where did his normal clothes go?
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Postby bobbarker31 » Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:02 am

If Shinji had fought the Angel instead of the dummy plug, Toji may not have been hurt as bad as he was. For crying out loud, the angel had its neck broken and face smashed in and the entry plug was not damaged. It took Unit 1 crushing Toji in his plug to cause the injuries that he received. If Shinji would have done his job, the angel would have been destroyed and Toji would be walking and able to use both hands.

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Postby Zotto » Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:33 am

I just think that according to Gendo, Toji's life was meaningless, he just wanted to test the dummy plug system, that's the only reason that came in my mind which can explain Gendo didn't stop the dummy system when the 01 smashed the angel's head and threw his arms apart...

Or maybe gainax just needed a good reason to make Shinji's hate grow..

Answering to why "he choosed asuka", I think that is just because, as Shinji consider in Evangelion, she was the only one left, he didn't want to see Rei after what he discovered about her, and he felt that he was just a child to Misato, and there was not he could do at all for here, that's why the only one left is Asuka...

It's just my opinion.
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Postby Zotto » Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:35 am

sry second post.

I meant "he could do nothing for her" (I am talking about how she felt after what happened kaji, with no possibilities for shinji to comfort her).
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Postby the Black Monarch » Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:35 pm

To be honest... Unit 03 could have been stopped very easily without harming Toji in the slightest. Shinji was being a dumbass pussy again, and Gendo did what was necessary to ensure the survival of the species. Shinji's anger and "guilt" were completely irrational.

However, Gendo should have stopped Unit 01 after 03 had been thoroughly ripped apart.
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Postby GloryQuestor » Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:54 pm

the Black Monarch wrote:To be honest... Unit 03 could have been stopped very easily without harming Toji in the slightest. Shinji was being a dumbass pussy again, and Gendo did what was necessary to ensure the survival of the species. Shinji's anger and "guilt" were completely irrational.

However, Gendo should have stopped Unit 01 after 03 had been thoroughly ripped apart.


I've been going over it, and I found Shinji's logic:

If Shinji kills Unit 03, he knows that he'd be killing another person -- the person inside Unit 03. Remember, when they are synchronized with their Evas, the Eva's pain becomes their pain. Shinji knows this part first-hand -- that's why he's understandably serious about not causing damage to Unit 03.

Ironic, isn't it? It was because Toji smacked him around for injuring his sister that Shinji first understood about the guilt for injuring people. His father, however, had no such scruples about taking human life, for reasons that became quite obvious in the later episodes...
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