Hellsing: Order 13.

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Postby Tsunami Jones » Sat May 15, 2004 11:56 pm

HeartbreakerByZep wrote:Anyway... I don't know what else I can say. I also recall someone saying that Dracula didn't die in the book, which definetly isn't true


That would be me. I decided to go and read the last couple chapters while really sleepy (bad move). But anways, thanks for the right info, it's appreciated.
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Postby HeartbreakerByZep » Sun May 16, 2004 1:15 pm

Tsunami Jones wrote:
HeartbreakerByZep wrote:Anyway... I don't know what else I can say. I also recall someone saying that Dracula didn't die in the book, which definetly isn't true


That would be me. I decided to go and read the last couple chapters while really sleepy (bad move). But anways, thanks for the right info, it's appreciated.


Oh, that's cool. I guess he could have reformed himself, maybe if you try to kill Dracula in the night he can reform. But that was clearly not Bram Stoker's intention, and we all know what happens when you go against Bram Stoker's intentions (You get Mina in love with Dracula!! AARRG WHY!!!????)

The thing that I'm still confused about is the Van Helsing killing Dracula thing. I'm sure that I remember a lot of peopling mentioning how Van Helsing is the name of the person that defeated Dracula, on multiple occasions and in multiple places. Maybe I'm just insane and I made it all up.

Darn it - I can't find he qoute that I wanted to use here. Van Hesling said something like "I wonder if we have all lost our minds and will soon awake to find ourselves in a strait waistcoat in a padded room." Or something.... it was a good qoute, I wish I knew where to find it.

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Postby Tsunami Jones » Sun May 16, 2004 4:09 pm

HeartbreakerByZep wrote:
Tsunami Jones wrote:
HeartbreakerByZep wrote:Anyway... I don't know what else I can say. I also recall someone saying that Dracula didn't die in the book, which definetly isn't true


That would be me. I decided to go and read the last couple chapters while really sleepy (bad move). But anways, thanks for the right info, it's appreciated.


Oh, that's cool. I guess he could have reformed himself, maybe if you try to kill Dracula in the night he can reform. But that was clearly not Bram Stoker's intention, and we all know what happens when you go against Bram Stoker's intentions (You get Mina in love with Dracula!! AARRG WHY!!!????)

The thing that I'm still confused about is the Van Helsing killing Dracula thing. I'm sure that I remember a lot of peopling mentioning how Van Helsing is the name of the person that defeated Dracula, on multiple occasions and in multiple places. Maybe I'm just insane and I made it all up.

Darn it - I can't find he qoute that I wanted to use here. Van Helsing said something like "I wonder if we have all lost our minds and will soon awake to find ourselves in a strait waistcoat in a padded room." Or something.... it was a good qoute, I wish I knew where to find it.

Peace :D



From what I can tell, Helsing killing Dracula seems to be a large misconception . . . I was looking around on the web for info and found several pages that have stuff like that on it. So you're not insane :wink:
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Postby HeartbreakerByZep » Sun May 16, 2004 4:48 pm

Oh, good! (Now I feel like Jonathan Harker when Van Helsing told him he wasn't insane!)

Now on to the next mystery.... where did this misconception arise from? I can't imagine people just sitting up one day and thinking "Hmmm, I've nver read Dracula, but I bet Van Helsing kills Dracula." I can't imagine the rumor came out of people who had read the book, Jonathan was intended to be the killer of Dracula anyway. Van Helsing did kill the vampire women, and he did have all the plans on how specifically you can kill a vampire, but that doesn't mean he killed Dracula.

Is there a movie perhaps that has the Van Helsing character kill Dracula? Or is it just another one of those crazy rumors that is easily proven false by facts but somehow manages to get spread and beleived by a large group of people?
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Postby Tsunami Jones » Sun May 16, 2004 5:56 pm

HeartbreakerByZep wrote:Now on to the next mystery.... where did this misconception arise from?


I have no idea. When I was first told of the character of Van Helsing, I was simply told, "He was a vampire hunter that went after Dracula." Not a very big description, and if one has never read Dracula, I suppose that it'd be kinda easy to jump to conclusions based on that description that he killed him. But you may be right, that there could be a different movie or perhaps work of fiction in which Helsing confronts and kills Dracula himself.
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Postby ninja007 » Sun May 16, 2004 8:07 pm

it looks like i'm the only one here who hasn't read dracula, but anyway this idea of van helsing killing dracula is either from the new movie "Van Helsing" cuz i think dracula gets killed by van helsing there, or it could be from me a few posts back.

anyway, this is probably what most people think. if you ask anyone who hasn't read the book but have heard about the newer movie, they will jump to conclusions and say that van helsing kills dracula. you can't really blame someone for saying that because the main good guy almost always kills the main bad guy.

is van helsing a strong vampire killing guy, or is he a good scientist? what i mean is:

could van helsing (from the book) kill alucard?

it looks like van helsing is a normal guy that knows how to kill vampires, am i correct in thinking that he's a super human that can kill anyone? cuz i have no idea who van helsing is anymore
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Postby Tsunami Jones » Sun May 16, 2004 10:32 pm

ninja007 wrote:
is van helsing a strong vampire killing guy, or is he a good scientist? what i mean is:

could van helsing (from the book) kill alucard?

it looks like van helsing is a normal guy that knows how to kill vampires, am i correct in thinking that he's a super human that can kill anyone? cuz i have no idea who van helsing is anymore



Yes, from what I got from the last few chapters of the book was just that Dr. Abraham Van Helsing just knows how to kill vampires along with some other stuff (If this is wrong, let us know HeartBreaker), and no, he probably wouldn't stand much of a chance in a direct confrontation with Alucard. But the key word there is "direct." And no, he's not superhuman. The Van Helsing in the movie pretty much is, but he's actually not the same character as the one in the book. In the movie it's Gabriel Van Helsing, and he's not a doctor.
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Postby ninja007 » Mon May 17, 2004 6:10 pm

okay, so who is the "van helsing" in the movie? is he some kind of relative? or is he some spin-off from the original, that has no historic importance?
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Postby HeartbreakerByZep » Mon May 17, 2004 7:38 pm

Dr. Van Helsing is a wonderful character... but that aside, he would stand no chance against Alucard. While Van Helsing has widsom and courage, in his day (or rather, his fictional universe) vampires are confined to the night, and contained by the goodness of God. Since Alucard is well beyond these Vampiric limitations (and ALL limitations, basically) Van Helsing wouldn't be able to win against Alucard. Van Helsing is in fact a very old man, a world renowned scientist, doctor, teacher, and philosopher (he also I think pioneered in understanding of the workings of the human brain, according to Stoker) he is very brilliant, open minded, strong-willed and wise, but very physically weak and while he could win in a confrontation with Dracula if he where restrained by the light of day, but even with his Vampire fighting knowledge and relics, he wouldn't be able to win against Dracula during the night time, or rather he may by using his relics and understanding, but he could never win in a direct battle against Dracula.

As for the Van Helsing in the movie - I haven't seen the movie so I don't know, but I've heard that this Van Helsing is actually the angel Gabriel that is killing monsters. (Interestingly enough, the first thing I thought of when my friend told me that this Van Helsing has lived for ages was that he's a vampire, and Dr. Van Helsing in the book makes a very interesting comment about if a being with the immense powers that Dracula had had come from God and not the Devil, that it could do so much good. So maybe this movie is actually based on this idea from the book! I admit that would be quite cool, and it would justify the movie's namesake, even though I hear it isn't the most substance based movie.) Anyway back to the movie, if it's not a refference to Van Helsing's comment in the book, then I think they just used that name because he was a hunter of the evil beings that plague Earth. But I'd have to see the movie to know, I heard that Dracula's story involves him being defeated and then begging the devil for a second chance? Well he'd have to have been defeated by someone, and if it was indeed the group containing Van Helsing that killed Dracula, that could send us some clues. But now I'm just rambling incoherently since I haven't even seen the movie.

One thing that I doubt is true but would be excellently cool is if this powerful vampire hunter simply took on the name of Van Helsing as a refference/homage/tribute/symbol/honor to the ancient Van Helsing who helped to end Dracula.

About the misconception about Van Helsing killing Dracula, I think it definetly precedes the Van Helsing movie, because I recall it being brought up in discussions about Hellsing's name.

I definetly agree that the misconception most likely came from "Van Helsing is a vampire hunter that goes after Dracula." and similar statements. I think people (myself included) jump to conclusions when they hear that Van Helsing goes after Dracula and assume that Dracula was killed by Van Helsing.
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Postby Tsunami Jones » Mon May 17, 2004 11:21 pm

HeartbreakerByZep wrote:.

As for the Van Helsing in the movie - I haven't seen the movie so I don't know, but I've heard that this Van Helsing is actually the angel Gabriel that is killing monsters.


That's basically what my friends and I gathered from watching the movie. There's a few references, and the fact that he's apparently been alive for a thousand years or so . . . but in the movie he's lost his memory and can't piece anything together. But anyways:


ninja007 wrote:okay, so who is the "van helsing" in the movie? is he some kind of relative? or is he some spin-off from the original, that has no historic importance?


Your second guess would be right. The only real thing the Van Helsing in the movie and in "Dracula" share in common is the name. So as you say, he's pretty much a spin off that has no past importance.
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Postby generalhs » Tue May 18, 2004 9:45 am

HeartbreakerByZep wrote: Since Alucard is well beyond these Vampiric limitations (and ALL limitations, basically)


Hmm, but what if Alucard was given these powers by Van Helsing or one of his descendants? Or perhaps Alucard has simply gained strength over the years and was much weaker when Hellsing caught him?

I actually believe that perhaps Van Helsing DID wound Alucard greatly and this impressed the vampire. So much that he decided to serve the Helsing family. He seems to hold a lot of respect for them after all and he's bound by an indescrible loyalty to Integra for some reason. Alucard doesn't HAVE to follow her orders, he choses to.
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Postby Kaimi-chan » Tue May 18, 2004 12:40 pm

Man, how this topic is popular now. All the Bram Stroken's Dracula discution is really amazing, talking about the movie: Van Helsing, it seems to be a good movie, I didn't watch that yet, but I hope there's something to do with the book.
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Postby Tsunami Jones » Tue May 18, 2004 1:11 pm

Kaimi-chan wrote:Van Helsing, it seems to be a good movie, I didn't watch that yet, but I hope there's something to do with the book.


I thought that it was a pretty good action film. But no, it really has nothing at all to do with the book (like it has Dr. Frakenstein and his monster in it, along with Dr. Jekyl/Mr. Hyde).
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Postby ninja007 » Wed May 19, 2004 9:21 am

it sounds a lot like tha Sean Connery movie
"League of Extrordinary Gentlemen" but i don't think many people liked that one.
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Postby HeartbreakerByZep » Wed May 19, 2004 7:42 pm

generalhs wrote:
HeartbreakerByZep wrote: Since Alucard is well beyond these Vampiric limitations (and ALL limitations, basically)


Hmm, but what if Alucard was given these powers by Van Helsing or one of his descendants? Or perhaps Alucard has simply gained strength over the years and was much weaker when Hellsing caught him?

I actually believe that perhaps Van Helsing DID wound Alucard greatly and this impressed the vampire. So much that he decided to serve the Helsing family. He seems to hold a lot of respect for them after all and he's bound by an indescrible loyalty to Integra for some reason. Alucard doesn't HAVE to follow her orders, he choses to.


I don't deny the possibility that Dracula was weaker than Alucard when he was caught. But if my beloved Van Helsing, as far as the book Dracula goes, were to go up against Alucard in his current state, he would have no chance.

As for the stuff that happened in Alucard's past, based on some things that are said, it seems likely that Alucard had had somethings done to him to enhance or change him. But as far as Alucard originally being as (comparitively) weak as Dracula in the book, I can't see Van Helsing not killing Dracula if he had the chance - I sought to explain Dracula's survival with the vampire-power statement. But it's equally possible that Van Helsing decided to harvest (well, capture) Dracula. Van Helsing mentions in the book that vampires have been noted across all parts of the world, and obviously since Count Dracula stayed in his Transylvanian castle for nearly all of his life (making a short romp in London and possibly venturing breifly in other places) there are obviously an abundance of vampires across the world, so it would make sense that Van Helsing might decide to take Dracula with hopes of using him against the others, which would highly make sense in the context of the Hellsing Organization, which presumably he set up.

The intense vagueity of what actually went on makes it hard for me to put two and two together, because there are multiple possibilites with little hardcore evidence backing any of it. Unless there is a more in-depth explination of what went on somewhere in the manga (i'd love it if there was) I don't think we're really ment to think about what has happened in the age of Dracula. We do have Integra mentioning something of the great ordeal that the first generation Hellsing family went through, I wonder what that was... and I wonder what was done to Dracula - what was done to his mind? Was his power already there, or was it changed? I don't know, maybe I'll ask Kohta (I really should be doing my work now! But nah!)
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Don't disturb me now, I can see the answers
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