Evangelion Episode 23 Director's Cut proves the following...

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Postby Tab. » Thu Feb 26, 2004 11:27 pm

AlanClontz: pwned :|
Tab is on AIM: :|
Tab is on AIM: then how the hell did they get him?
AlanClontz: they could return?
Tab is on AIM: besides
Tab is on AIM: he did the blowing up himself
Tab is on AIM: it wasn't the scientists
AlanClontz: how are you so sure :O
AlanClontz: it just shows big ol claws coming up
AlanClontz: well
AlanClontz: wings
Tab is on AIM: cause they were all freaking out and his arms and wings were going all over the place
Tab is on AIM: :|
Tab is on AIM: and they were like whoa shit he's walking
AlanClontz: and so theyr like
AlanClontz: lets reduce this bitch
AlanClontz: :|
Tab is on AIM: hmm :|
Tab is on AIM: nope cause
Tab is on AIM: the wings were still there after he blew up
Tab is on AIM: er
Tab is on AIM: wait :|
AlanClontz: wait
AlanClontz: lol
Tab is on AIM: I guess he blew up twice then
AlanClontz: wtf?
Tab is on AIM: cause one explosion knocked misato into the sea
Tab is on AIM: but there was still stuff there
AlanClontz: an explosion *knocked* her out to sea?
Tab is on AIM: yeah, remember?
AlanClontz: i thought her dad sent her off :|
Tab is on AIM: her dad closed the hatch and fell onto it
Tab is on AIM: nope
AlanClontz: well
Tab is on AIM: he layed down on it and then there was this explosion
AlanClontz: there was like
AlanClontz: big explody electronics :|
Tab is on AIM: I dunno :|
Tab is on AIM: hmm
Tab is on AIM: maybe
Tab is on AIM: well lets email anno
Tab is on AIM: and then we'll tell him we're gonna kill him
AlanClontz: ok
AlanClontz: hmmm
AlanClontz: i wonder if we could like pay him, to get him to come to a convention in america
AlanClontz: then kidnap him
Tab is on AIM: lol
AlanClontz: and force him to reveal everything
Tab is on AIM: seriously though, I guess it makes sense that that's when they reduced him
Tab is on AIM: but then
Tab is on AIM: what are the odds of finding a random fetus in the ocean?
AlanClontz: hmm
Tab is on AIM: and why wouldn't the tides have carried it to some coast in south america by the time they got back? :|
AlanClontz: maybe they had something like the Dragon Radar
Tab is on AIM: and why wouldnt he have grown back by then
Tab is on AIM: BESIDES
Tab is on AIM: HA
Tab is on AIM: well
Tab is on AIM: they couldve gone to antarctica before the first time they were shown in antarctica, but that seems like something that would have been shown in the DC or something
Tab is on AIM: kinda
Tab is on AIM: pivotal :|
Tab is on AIM: so
Tab is on AIM: but the first time they were there
Tab is on AIM: they had already been producing unit 00
Tab is on AIM: several failures, at that
AlanClontz: this seems like something
AlanClontz: that i will need to search the eva mailing list archives for


yeah... so...
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Postby Daio Kaji » Thu Feb 26, 2004 11:41 pm

Tab. wrote:As I've already said, I'm 99% sure that Gendo's team took Adam's DNA with on the trip back from Antarctica one day before Second Impact.
Zarxrax wrote:Nah, it was reducing Adam to an embryonic form that caused second impact :|

Red Cross Book says so :| :roll:

:roll: ur both right, lol, adam's DNA was taken by Gendo's team (don't ask me how, maybe they picked straws to who would inject the giant needle into Adam's arse :lol: )
and then the real adam blew up/exploded/released a shit load of energy when he was reduced to an embryonic form, but the down side was the people that reduced adam got vaporized :lol:
so they later found adam as a fetus trying to recover in the ocean, although the odds are slim to none, think about it, they didn't find the damn embryo til like 14 years later, so i think that's enough time to scan an ocean that has been cleansed off all over life forms

and of course the DNA was passed from Gendo's Nerv facility to start work on unit 00, the prototype, and with the test type (unit 01) already completed with the introduction of Yui's soul, they didn't need Adam's DNA further, so they passed it to Germany's facility in order to start work on the production model, unit 02

as for the rest of the countries, i think it's safe to assume that the DNA made it's way there too, no reason not to, with Gendo in possesion of the original being itself, the rest of the world could do as they wish with the sample DNA imo
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Postby the Black Monarch » Sat Feb 28, 2004 7:21 pm

Tab. wrote:Here's the quote you've all been waiting for:

"We can't conclude our findings for our investigation lightly either. A completely localized change to the atmospheric elements. The thorough extermination of all life, including microorganisms. The traces of an enormous cavern directly below the blast center. And this giant of light. This incident is full of mysteries."


Checked and found. Thanks.

Cyanna wrote:The promised time has come. With the Lance of Longinus now lost, complementation using Lilith is impossible. Our only hope is to proceed with EVA-01, Lilith's sole clone.


Ah, the peculiarities of translations... the word so often translated as "clone" does not actually mean that. "Bunshin" can be a clone, yes, but it can also be offspring, a facsimile, a spinoff, or one's "other self". It does not refer specifically to clones. Unit 01 was more a copy of Lillith than the other Evas were, but there is nothing to suggest a physical relationship (aside, of course, from one blurry image that can only barely be made out, but that everyone insists shows Unit 01).

Kracus wrote:what part of the series are you getting that from or are you just pulling that from your ass?


I'm getting it from the fact that it's logical and true. Where are you getting the idea that she was insane?

Kracus wrote:example, I provided a definition, you have provided nothing


You provided a definition for a word that had previously not been mentioned and was completely irrelevant to our discussion.

Kracus wrote:I didn't post the dialogue I was watching to discredit yours, just provide another very close and similar translation from the Death part of Death & Rebirth. I have the uncut version and I know what it says


You posted a less accurate translation. How would a less accurate translation help?

Kracus wrote:first notice the 'what if' I added. Yes Gendo says Giant of Light because that is what he saw.


But Gendo did NOT see the Giant of Light, since he was in Japan when 2I occurred.

Kracus wrote:Because at that time he was lit up. But Rei and Lilith do the same thing. So Adam is not the only one who can be considered the Giant of Light


So what if Rei and Lillith glow? There is only one entity that is ever called a Giant of Light, and that is Adam.

Kracus wrote:I was saying that to throw away what you said but to add to what you said for those who didn't accept what you said


Similarly, I was only adding to what YOU said.

Kracus wrote:Again, where in the series did you see that? You need proof. I'm not advocating that Rei has died three times but you need actual proof or you can't go around saying everyone else is wrong


I already provided proof on Page 1. Aside from that, ask any medical professional if it's possible to commit suicide by holding your breath.

Kracus wrote:here is something else rei says.
Rei: No Problem. Let me go. I don't mind, even if I die--- there is another.


There are other pilots.

Kracus wrote:Gendo was working for Seele and left the day before Kasuragi's team died in the SI.


Which has SQUAT to do with when Adam was retrieved from Antarctica.

Zarxrax wrote:Alright peeps, time to pull out the big guns.

the red cross book wrote:*a bunch of stuff that is unsubstantiated by the series, written by Viz, approved by people at gainax who hadn't watched the whole series, and so often vague that the authors must be wild-ass guessing at everything they say*


My my, wasn't that helpful?

Zarxrax wrote:
UncleMilo wrote:It was established that the EVAs had computer brains that were the same "model" as the MAGI computers. That the computer brains had human imprints to function. Blah blah blah, the sky is orange, blah blah blah, my mom is Oprah, blah blah blah


Do you have any proof for ANY of this?


I was thinking the same thing...

Daio Kaji wrote:Rei's origins most logically to me seem to be that she was created AFTER Yui died, Rei's entire purpose is a tool to re-unite Gendo with Yui, so there is NO reason for her to even exist if Yui is still alive


Rei's purpose was to cause Third Impact. The Yui part came later.

Daio Kaji wrote:at one point in the series, rei tells shinji "well... that's good for you." and it OBVIOUSLY is one of the few memories that shinji has of his mother, therefore part of Rei IS Yui


Of course, somewhere in Yui's genetic code there was the phrase "that's good for you," so Rei must have the same gene :lol:

Daio Kaji wrote:2- because the evas are made from an angel (lillith), Rei is able to syncronize with the evas successfully for the same reason kaworu could, because they are made of the same material


Umm... Unit 01 was the only Eva to be made based on Lillith... all the others were based on Adam.

Daio Kaji wrote:from what i've seen and read (including interviews), it [2I] happened in 2000


The series itself says so. Interviews are not necessary...

Daio Kaji wrote:what we (humans) did was use the only instrument capable of killing a god to stop adam from continuing his killing spree


Yes, I'm sure Adam's bloody rampage across Antarctica had to be stopped immediately :)

Daio Kaji wrote:and so people know Dummy Plugs do not equal clones
what shinji had with him in his entry plug against eva unit 03 was NOT clone, there was no physical body, it was a badly imitated digital equivalent of a soul/personality


Prove to me that the mysterious box with "Rei" written on it did not have a Rei clone inside, and I'll believe you.

Daio Kaji wrote: they didn't find the damn embryo til like 14 years later


There's no evidence for that. Adam could have been found the very next day for all we know.
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Postby Daio Kaji » Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:42 pm

the Black Monarch wrote:
Daio Kaji wrote:Rei's origins most logically to me seem to be that she was created AFTER Yui died, Rei's entire purpose is a tool to re-unite Gendo with Yui, so there is NO reason for her to even exist if Yui is still alive


Rei's purpose was to cause Third Impact. The Yui part came later.

the two roles are concurrent, she was created for the purpose of joining gendo with yui through death.. i guess.. Seele had no mention of using the first child to initiate third impact, the plan was for use of Lillith, not Rei
the Black Monarch wrote:
Daio Kaji wrote:at one point in the series, rei tells shinji "well... that's good for you." and it OBVIOUSLY is one of the few memories that shinji has of his mother, therefore part of Rei IS Yui


Of course, somewhere in Yui's genetic code there was the phrase "that's good for you," so Rei must have the same gene :lol:
okay, okay, lol, yes that sounds very coincidental, but IT'S ANIME, nothing that happens is coincidental, she says this line to shinji, and shinji has a memory come back to him, so it's slapping the viewer in the face and telling him/her to realize, THERE'S A CONNECTION!
the Black Monarch wrote:
Daio Kaji wrote:2- because the evas are made from an angel (lillith), Rei is able to syncronize with the evas successfully for the same reason kaworu could, because they are made of the same material


Umm... Unit 01 was the only Eva to be made based on Lillith... all the others were based on Adam.
... and this is different from what i said how? they were still made from angels none-the-less
the Black Monarch wrote:
Daio Kaji wrote:from what i've seen and read (including interviews), it [2I] happened in 2000


The series itself says so. Interviews are not necessary...
true enough
the Black Monarch wrote:
Daio Kaji wrote:what we (humans) did was use the only instrument capable of killing a god to stop adam from continuing his killing spree


Yes, I'm sure Adam's bloody rampage across Antarctica had to be stopped immediately :)
my lack of logic was already pointed out, and just for people to know, i WASN'T presenting that as FACT, i was saying that that was MY perception of what happened based on what i've learned, not that that was what happened because i know there is little information for everyone to have a clear concept
the Black Monarch wrote:
Daio Kaji wrote:and so people know Dummy Plugs do not equal clones
what shinji had with him in his entry plug against eva unit 03 was NOT clone, there was no physical body, it was a badly imitated digital equivalent of a soul/personality


Prove to me that the mysterious box with "Rei" written on it did not have a Rei clone inside, and I'll believe you.
..sorry no, YOU prove to ME that it DID have a physical clone inside and then I'LL believe YOU, you can't say something is there if you can't see it, but you can assume that it is not if you can't see it, so i think ur the one that has some explaining to do
the Black Monarch wrote:
Daio Kaji wrote: they didn't find the damn embryo til like 14 years later


There's no evidence for that. Adam could have been found the very next day for all we know.
true, but no one knows, so we can assume anything we want in this case, it really doesn't make a lick of difference in the end, the point is they found him right? :wink:
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Postby Kalium » Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:43 pm

This thread has definitively proved one thing: Eva, with or without the Director's Cut, is confusing. Chances are, it will forever remain that way.
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Postby Daio Kaji » Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:59 pm

but there will always be the select few who try and try to understand it until they convince themselves that they know enough to be able to drop it all together and leave the next generation to ponder those mind-testing questions

don't give up, just give in to the chaotic order that is evangelion 8)
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Postby Tab. » Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:29 pm

But Gendo did NOT see the Giant of Light, since he was in Japan when 2I occurred.


He only left a day before, the chances are astronomical that he saw the thing. It's not hard to miss :|
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Postby Daio Kaji » Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:34 pm

Tab. wrote:
But Gendo did NOT see the Giant of Light, since he was in Japan when 2I occurred.


He only left a day before, the chances are astronomical that he saw the thing. It's not hard to miss :|

okay, i think ur going too far with this, i know evangelion although fictional, it echos life, but it's still anime, if someone is not present for the actual incident, chances are that they did not see the incident unless it is overwise specified

and who's to say? maybe it takes less than a day to get from antarctica to japan in NGE, we don't know the capacities of Nerv's ships, and regardless of what their boat LOOKS like it can do, you should never assume

and btw, if 2nd Impact was so un-missable, i think there would have been a lot more witnesses than just Misato, the series states and no one else has ever debated that Misato Katsuragi was not the sole witness and survivor of 2nd impact, so i don't think we can just throw gendo into it, if he did, we would know, there is no reason for us not to know, gendo gains nothing from keeping it a secret if he had been there
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Postby SS5_Majin_Bebi » Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:41 am

Daio Kaji wrote:
Tab. wrote:
But Gendo did NOT see the Giant of Light, since he was in Japan when 2I occurred.


He only left a day before, the chances are astronomical that he saw the thing. It's not hard to miss :|

okay, i think ur going too far with this, i know evangelion although fictional, it echos life, but it's still anime, if someone is not present for the actual incident, chances are that they did not see the incident unless it is overwise specified

and who's to say? maybe it takes less than a day to get from antarctica to japan in NGE, we don't know the capacities of Nerv's ships, and regardless of what their boat LOOKS like it can do, you should never assume

and btw, if 2nd Impact was so un-missable, i think there would have been a lot more witnesses than just Misato, the series states and no one else has ever debated that Misato Katsuragi was not the sole witness and survivor of 2nd impact, so i don't think we can just throw gendo into it, if he did, we would know, there is no reason for us not to know, gendo gains nothing from keeping it a secret if he had been there


He left on a ship the day before. Theres an incredible strong chance he saw the giant of light from the ship. Considering adam was FUCKING HUGE and you could see his wings FROM THE MOON!! Being on a ship on the ocean a few miles away compared to being on the moon is like just being up the road. He wouldve seen it. And people in other places may have noticed as well. But considering 50% of the earths population karked it after 2I, I doubt anyone would be around to speculate afterwards. And who's saying SEELE didnt do a little "cleanup" to supress the evidence? The definetly have the power to.
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Postby Tab. » Tue Mar 02, 2004 2:00 pm

I'm not saying Gendo saw Second Impact, but Adam was there before he blew up. It's not like Adam just suddenly appeared and was like "WHOA SECOND IMPACT *BOOM*". Gendo "brought back all the team's findings", meaning they had something to find before the actual event of Second Impact. I thought that was a given :|
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Postby HeartbreakerByZep » Tue Mar 02, 2004 7:05 pm

Kalium wrote:This thread has definitively proved one thing: Eva, with or without the Director's Cut, is confusing. Chances are, it will forever remain that way.


Oh of course, I don't think people usually need a thread to realize that, just watching the series is enough. It's interesting how Evangelion is a somewhat like a microcasm of the Scientific world, dealing with hypotheses and such, the only problem is that no real tests can be done, we only can go on the data that is the series.
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Postby the Black Monarch » Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:28 am

Daio Kaji wrote:the two roles are concurrent, she was created for the purpose of joining gendo with yui through death.. i guess.. Seele had no mention of using the first child to initiate third impact, the plan was for use of Lillith, not Rei


Except that if Rei as born circa 2000/2001, that would be when Yui was still alive. Unless Gendo really did plan his wife's demise... or maybe he was just planning FOR it... hmm...

Daio Kaji wrote:okay, okay, lol, yes that sounds very coincidental, but IT'S ANIME, nothing that happens is coincidental, she says this line to shinji, and shinji has a memory come back to him, so it's slapping the viewer in the face and telling him/her to realize, THERE'S A CONNECTION!


Or maybe Anno's just trying to f*ck with us :)

Daio Kaji wrote:and this is different from what i said how? they were still made from angels none-the-less


Yeah, but you got the specific Angel wrong :)

Daio Kaji wrote:my lack of logic was already pointed out, and just for people to know, i WASN'T presenting that as FACT, i was saying that that was MY perception of what happened based on what i've learned, not that that was what happened because i know there is little information for everyone to have a clear concept


Yeah yeah, I know, I was just making a wee joke.

Daio Kaji wrote:sorry no, YOU prove to ME that it DID have a physical clone inside and then I'LL believe YOU, you can't say something is there if you can't see it, but you can assume that it is not if you can't see it, so i think ur the one that has some explaining to do


Go back to the very first post on Page 1. Ritsuko says that the clones are the cores of the dummy plugs.

the Black Monarch wrote:true, but no one knows, so we can assume anything we want in this case, it really doesn't make a lick of difference in the end, the point is they found him right? :wink:


The point is that you assumed something that there was no evidence for without having any reason to assume it, and when trying to figure out what's going on in Evangelion, that's generally a very bad thing...

Tab. wrote:He only left a day before, the chances are astronomical that he saw the thing. It's not hard to miss :|


Well he probably saw Adam, but not when Adam was doing his whole giant-of-light showy deal.

HeartbreakerByZep wrote: It's interesting how Evangelion is a somewhat like a microcasm of the Scientific world, dealing with hypotheses and such, the only problem is that no real tests can be done, we only can go on the data that is the series.


Ooh.. you're all, like, profound and stuff...
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Postby Tab. » Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:34 am

I just kind of figured he was always that glowie except in embryo form :|
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Postby the Black Monarch » Thu Mar 04, 2004 1:04 am

Hmm... that's a possibility that I hadn't considered... mostly because his relatives (Lillith, the Evas, Rei, etc.) only glow on special occasions... but maybe Adam is special and he glows all the time. And all the Angels want to reunite with him so they can glow all the time too. OMG it all makes sense now!
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Postby Tab. » Thu Mar 04, 2004 1:11 am

Arael and Armisael glow all the time :|
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