Evangelion Episode 23 Director's Cut proves the following...

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Evangelion Episode 23 Director's Cut proves the following...

Postby the Black Monarch » Wed Jan 21, 2004 6:49 pm

I just watched the Director's Cuts of episodes 21-23. The new translation is supposedly the most accurate so far. A highlight from Episode 23:

Misato: So, this is the source of the dummy plugs?
Ritsuko: I will show you the truth
*she pushes the pretty button to reveal lots of clones of Rei*
Shinji: Ayanami Rei!
Misato: You're not saying the Evas' dummy plugs are...
Ritsuko: That's right, the part that becomes the core of the dummy system, and this is the manufacturing plant for it.
Misato: This is?
Ritsuko: These are just dummies. And nothing more than parts for Rei.

While I admit that Ritsuko is an abundant source of questionable information, this particular translation (accompanied by the numbers on her handheld control thingie and the fact that Units 00 and 01 both had dummy systems) would seem more than ever to confirm what I've been saying all along: that of the three or four Reis that have been taken out of the tanks (depending on whether or not there was a "Rei 000"), at least two got put into dummy plugs, meaning that Rei could not have died and been replaced more than once - and if we assume that one of those clones had to be cannibalized for "parts" (as may have happened in the fight against Unit 03 when Unit 00 got its arm blown off), then that leaves zero possible replacements for Rei, in further accordance with Ritsuko's "nothing more than parts" statement.

Does this qualify as absolute proof that Rei never truly died? Not quite. But considering how impossible it is to truly prove anything in Eva, and how clearly this information is spelled out for us, I think it's closer to proof than what 90% of arguments ever get.
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Postby Zarxrax » Wed Jan 21, 2004 10:00 pm

I'm not quite sure I follow you. Actually I'm not quite sure that you're saying anything that I didn't already know many years ago :|
But the rei clones aren't used for parts for the evas... that wouldn't even make sense. Rei is so damn small :O Besides, the eva's regenerate themselves.
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Postby the Black Monarch » Wed Jan 21, 2004 11:11 pm

Zarxrax wrote: I'm not quite sure I follow you. Actually I'm not quite sure that you're saying anything that I didn't already know many years ago :|


Most people think Rei died twice; the first time being when Naoko Akagi strangled her, and the second time being when Unit 00 blew up; meaning that there were 3 Reis walking around the halls of NERV. I'm just pointing out that with 14 or 15 Reis total, eleven in the tank, two in the plugs, and maybe one chopped up for parts, there could only have ever been one Rei walking around the halls of NERV.

Zarxrax wrote:But the rei clones aren't used for parts for the evas... that wouldn't even make sense. Rei is so damn small :O Besides, the eva's regenerate themselves.


Yeah... which is why they're used as replacement parts for Rei, and not as replacement parts for the Evas (note: sometimes damage that is suffered by the evas is inflicted upon the pilots as well, so Rei may have lost an arm when Unit 00 did).
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Postby squall1986 » Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:19 am

The clones of Rei are not put into the dummy plugs, the mind of Rei is copied onto the hardware of the dummy plugs. Besides, how could Rei not have died in the blast of 00?
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Postby Zarxrax » Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:22 am

the Black Monarch wrote:Most people think Rei died twice; the first time being when Naoko Akagi strangled her, and the second time being when Unit 00 blew up; meaning that there were 3 Reis walking around the halls of NERV. I'm just pointing out that with 14 or 15 Reis total, eleven in the tank, two in the plugs, and maybe one chopped up for parts, there could only have ever been one Rei walking around the halls of NERV.

I'm still not quite sure I follow you. Are you saying maybe she didn't die, but her body was messed up and they fixed her from the replacement parts?


the Black Monarch wrote:Yeah... which is why they're used as replacement parts for Rei, and not as replacement parts for the Evas (note: sometimes damage that is suffered by the evas is inflicted upon the pilots as well, so Rei may have lost an arm when Unit 00 did).

Ok, I get you now. But I believe the damage that is inflicted upon the pilot is related to the sync ratio that the pilot has with the eva. Unless its insanely high, like asuka was in the movie, the child shouldnt take any real bad damage. A good example is when Unit-01 was fighting Zeruel (is that name right?) and the arm was chopped off, it hardly phased shinji. And Rei was never really noted for having a terribly good sync ratio.
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Postby Zarxrax » Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:25 am

squall1986 wrote:The clones of Rei are not put into the dummy plugs, the mind of Rei is copied onto the hardware of the dummy plugs. Besides, how could Rei not have died in the blast of 00?

What makes you so sure about that? I would think that the plug would need a physical body in place in order to function.
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Postby AtomicWeezleman » Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:38 am

spoilers!!! cant be arsed with tags. dont know how to use them .......

erm well, in the final attack against nerv, the production models dummy plugs all have Kawaro (sp????) written on them, now, he currently mashed up against the sides of eva 1 hands. so. that would lead us to believe that the mind is printed to the dummy plug to fool the eva into thinking theres a soul within it. also when shinji derstroyed unit 03, he was inside the eva. not a rei clone. unless she was in the boot of the plug . just like in a car all trussed up....... :twisted:


Also black monarch erm.. rei quite possibly died repeatedly, but they transfered her soul to a new 'shell', so in one way she died, but in another she didnt.......... depends on your definition of death. also, those lines were in the original edition...........

One last thing, when ritsuko is showing Gendo the dummy plug for the first time, they talk about it. something along the lines of it not having a soul, just an imitation. enought to fools the evas......

this doesnt really clear anything up but meh who cares
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Postby Nestorath69 » Thu Jan 22, 2004 2:53 pm

I always figured like in-depth brainwaves and maybe a VR style simulation of all predicted responses to any given situation...
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Postby the Black Monarch » Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:46 pm

squall1986 wrote:how could Rei not have died in the blast of 00?


Depending on the translation, the line was either "The entry plug was definitely not ejected in time" or "we don't have a clue whether or not the plug was ejected".

Either way, LCL makes a pretty good shock-dampening medium, and the plug wasn't in too terrible a condition when it was found. I'm guessing Rei at least lost an arm and an eye, which were replaced with clone parts and re-integrated quickly thanks to her part-Angel heritage, which seems to be manifesting itself more and more as the series goes on.

Ritsuko, who obviously harbors no great love of Rei, wasn't exactly thrilled to see what was inside the entry plug. I wouldn't be surprised if her line "Retrieve the plug and destroy everything else" was basically an order to kill Rei. It would help explain why the guys in the apesuits were carrying guns. Of course, this would mean that Fuyutsuki or Gendo found out about the order and countermanded it in time.

Zarxrax wrote:the damage that is inflicted upon the pilot is related to the sync ratio that the pilot has with the eva. Unless its insanely high, like asuka was in the movie, the child shouldnt take any real bad damage. A good example is when Unit-01 was fighting Zeruel (is that name right?) and the arm was chopped off, it hardly phased shinji. And Rei was never really noted for having a terribly good sync ratio


Correct you are. But it sure as hell hurt :)

Anyway... that's why I said "MAY have happened"

AtomicWeezleman wrote:erm well, in the final attack against nerv, the production models dummy plugs all have Kawaro (sp????) written on them, now, he currently mashed up against the sides of eva 1 hands.


'xactly. With no Kaworu left at the end of episode 24, how could they copy his brain? Unless they copied his brain before sending him to NERV. Either way, if you could just copy someone's brain without needing clones in the plugs, then what would be the point of all those clones?

AtomicWeezleman wrote:also when shinji derstroyed unit 03, he was inside the eva. not a rei clone. unless she was in the boot of the plug . just like in a car all trussed up


She was in the boot of the plug.

AtomicWeezleman wrote:One last thing, when ritsuko is showing Gendo the dummy plug for the first time, they talk about it. something along the lines of it not having a soul, just an imitation. enought to fools the evas


Which meshes perfectly with the clones not having any souls.
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Postby Zarxrax » Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:47 pm

As far as the dummy plugs, I always took it that they were basically just regular entry plugs, with the rei clone inside, but are inserted in a different location than the standard entry plug.

Anyways, regarding the blast where Unit-00 was destroyed. There's NO WAY that Rei survived. They make it very clear in the series that she dies and is replaced. She even says something herself along the lines of "I'm the 3rd one".
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Postby the Black Monarch » Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:29 am

Correction: she says "I think I'm probably the third one"

If you watch Episode 18, you see that a dummy system and a pilot can coexist in one plug. Not too tricky. And the ones that only have dummy systems inside are still put into the same hole as the regular plugs.
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Postby AtomicWeezleman » Fri Jan 23, 2004 8:31 am

so on this note, did they clone Kaworu?? that be interesting. i guess they did, but im not sure..................

yeah, erm, where else would they inser the plug???? :twisted: I leave it up to your sick and twisted minds.
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Postby Cyanna » Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:42 pm

AtomicWeezleman wrote:so on this note, did they clone Kaworu?? that be interesting. i guess they did, but im not sure..................


I believe they did.

Most people attribute Rei's red eyes and pale skin to albinism, which was a result of the cloning process. Kaworu also has pale skin and red eyes (albino as a result of cloning). But I can't say whether or not that is official.

However SEELE had their own dummy plug factory obviously (and Kaworu HAD to play a part in it since the plugs all bear his name). I'm not a big reader of manga but I do know there is a scene in Vol.......7? (help me out here) where Kaworu is nekked in a tank....very similar to Rei in her tank. If SEELE had the same facilities as NERV for creating dummy plugs then I think it's safe to assume that there were soulless Kaworu copies hanging around.
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Postby the Black Monarch » Fri Jan 23, 2004 6:58 pm

Yup. Since the nine Mass-Produced Evas have the name "KAWORU" stenciled on their entry plugs, it makes sense that there's a tank full of Kaworu clones somewhere.
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Postby Cherubim » Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:38 am

Could it be, that the big thing over the glass-tube is the reproduction of a human brain...?
Like a backup-machine for Rei...
Ritsuko said the human soul can't be copied or digitized...
And Rei said in Ep25 about Gendo that he don't let her go...

It's a silly idea, but could it be that the true soul of Rei is captured down there in the huge brain...?
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