Evangelion Episode 23 Director's Cut proves the following...

Zarxrax · Post by **Zarxrax** » Sat Jan 24, 2004 4:00 pm

It's gernerally accepted that that machine makes backups of Rei's memory, but the idea of it holding her soul as well just doesnt work out.
For one thing, a soul can't be copied. This is proven by the fact that only 1 Rei at a time has a soul. Since it can't be copied, then that means it can be at only one place at a time. If its inside rei, then that means it couldn't be inside the machine. And as ritusuko said that the soul couldn't be digitized or copied, that completely rules out the fact that the machine could be used. The question remains of how exactly they could move rei's soul into a new body then. I like to think maybe they had a way of converting her remains into LCL, and then using that with a new body somehow.

the Black Monarch · Post by **the Black Monarch** » Sat Jan 24, 2004 4:18 pm

Except that enough of the bodies have been accounted for to virtually exclude that possibility.

Also, the fact that the machinery looks like a human brain is probably just symblolic and not functional, since we've seen that NERV uses real human brains where appropriate (the MAGI).

Scintilla · Post by **Scintilla** » Sat Jan 24, 2004 7:45 pm

the Black Monarch wrote:Also, the fact that the machinery looks like a human brain is probably just symblolic and not functional, since we've seen that NERV uses real human brains where appropriate (the MAGI).

You know, I was always under the impression that that thingy in Casper that looked like a brain was also machinery, and the MAGI merely contain Naoko's personality in digitized form... because wasn't she the one who built them in the first place?

the Black Monarch · Post by **the Black Monarch** » Sat Jan 24, 2004 11:58 pm

Yes she was, but those copied personalities seem to need organic brains to work. If I remember correctly, they make quite the lovely squishy sound when you stick needles in them

squall1986 · Post by **squall1986** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 8:01 pm

Ok, first of all, the dummy plugs do NOT contain any bodies. I have no concrete evidence of this, but they only contain a facsimily of the pilot's mind. The idea that Rei was in the "boot" of the plug when it took over Shinji's Eva is just ridiculous to me.

Also, Rei's soul is not transfered from one body to the next. They have their individual "souls." This can be seen in the Episode named Rei III (or something like that) when she says that she knows she is experiencing things for the first time, yet they seem familiar to her. Only Rei's memories are transfered from one shell to another. Each copy has its own slightly varied personality and soul. And I know I either read that somewhere or it was in the series, or the director's cut or something.

(Sorry, it's been about 7 months since I've seen the series)

Zarxrax · Post by **Zarxrax** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 8:37 pm

Someone didn't pay enough attention during the series

squall1986 wrote:Ok, first of all, the dummy plugs do NOT contain any bodies. I have no concrete evidence of this, but they only contain a facsimily of the pilot's mind. The idea that Rei was in the "boot" of the plug when it took over Shinji's Eva is just ridiculous to me.

Ritsuko states that the Rei clones are the heart of the dummy system, or something.

squall1986 wrote:Also, Rei's soul is not transfered from one body to the next. They have their individual "souls." This can be seen in the Episode named Rei III (or something like that) when she says that she knows she is experiencing things for the first time, yet they seem familiar to her. Only Rei's memories are transfered from one shell to another. Each copy has its own slightly varied personality and soul. And I know I either read that somewhere or it was in the series, or the director's cut or something.

(Sorry, it's been about 7 months since I've seen the series)

Ritsuko also states that the clones have no souls. Thus the only way for them to come to life would be for the old soul to be transfered into them. Rei said things seemed familiar to her, because her soul had experienced them. She didn't know why she was crying when she held Gendo's glasses. She had no memory of it, but the impression from the experience was left in her soul.

squall1986 · Post by **squall1986** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:50 pm

I payed attention, but I still think that's wrong.

Besides, when you say that they copy her soul from one shell to another, you're condtradicting when they said that a soul could not be digitized or copied.

I don't know, I really don't believe that there is a physical body in those plugs, nor do I believe that Rei's soul transfers bodies. Besides who ever said that she had a soul? I mean if they're all clones, how could they have made a soul? You know?

Cyanna · Post by **Cyanna** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:08 pm

squall1986 wrote:I payed attention, but I still think that's wrong.

Besides, when you say that they copy her soul from one shell to another, you're condtradicting when they said that a soul could not be digitized or copied.

I don't know, I really don't believe that there is a physical body in those plugs, nor do I believe that Rei's soul transfers bodies. Besides who ever said that she had a soul? I mean if they're all clones, how could they have made a soul? You know?

Spoiler...

One belief out there is that Rei's soul is actually the soul of Lilith, the 2nd Angel, which is the one hanging on the cross in Terminal Dogma.

It is known that Rei is a clone of Yui Ikari. However we also know that her merging with Lillith helped contribute to Third Impact. Why? Was Rei an angel? Doubt it if she was made with Yui's genes (we don't know if Kaworu was a clone of someone).

And it had to be Rei....Gendo wanted to merge with Lilith himself but he had to merge with Rei first. Why? Because this was the task Rei was ultimately made to do. Some people say that this is because Rei's soul is actually that of Lilith's and once Lilith's soul is reunited with her body.....

Now yes. A soul can't be copied...but it seems that it could be transferred.

Zarxrax · Post by **Zarxrax** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:15 pm

squall1986 wrote:I payed attention, but I still think that's wrong.

You think things that the anime itself states are wrong?

squall1986 wrote:Besides, when you say that they copy her soul from one shell to another, you're condtradicting when they said that a soul could not be digitized or copied.

I didn't say copy, I said transfer. While no light is ever shed on how it would be done, it apparently isn't done digitally.

squall1986 wrote:I don't know, I really don't believe that there is a physical body in those plugs, nor do I believe that Rei's soul transfers bodies. Besides who ever said that she had a soul? I mean if they're all clones, how could they have made a soul? You know?

They aren't all clones. There had to be an original at some point--the Rei which was killed by Ritsuko's mother most likely. Being an original, it would come equipped with it's own soul.

But consider this. Shinji's mother's soul is in Unit-01. I believe everyone accepts that as fact. It got like that during an accident where her body lost its form and turned to LCL. Now when the same thing happened to Shinji, they got his body to reform, but they ALSO got his soul back inside the body. If they are capable of this, then it could mean they are also capable of transfering Rei's soul to a new body.

Zarxrax · Post by **Zarxrax** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:17 pm

Cyanna wrote:
One belief out there is that Rei's soul is actually the soul of Lilith, the 2nd Angel, which is the one hanging on the cross in Terminal Dogma.

It is known that Rei is a clone of Yui Ikari. However we also know that her merging with Lillith helped contribute to Third Impact. Why? Was Rei an angel? Doubt it if she was made with Yui's genes (we don't know if Kaworu was a clone of someone).

And it had to be Rei....Gendo wanted to merge with Lilith himself but he had to merge with Rei first. Why? Because this was the task Rei was ultimately made to do. Some people say that this is because Rei's soul is actually that of Lilith's and once Lilith's soul is reunited with her body.....

Now yes. A soul can't be copied...but it seems that it could be transferred.

Whoops, I forgot all about Rei being a clone of Yui, and her soul being Lilith's. Haven't watched the show in a couple years