Commenting system outdatted?

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Re: Commenting system outdatted?

Postby Kai Stromler » Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:35 pm

Knowname wrote:there are a TON more users there who think they can spit a video out in a couple hours and be done with it! I just don't see how we can take the place of YT when many of their users are coming over here. We must make it clear to them that we are NOT YTT, we DO NOT want and CAN NOT have the attention and legal issues that YT gets. I do NOT want this new stream of users to bring us down


The first point is true. To the extent that the second is true, what we would be seeing is a reversion to the state of things in the period 2003-2006, when we had local and YouTube didn't exist. We would only be getting AMV ediors and viewers, not idiots who rebroadcast fansubs/streams/official releases. Somehow, we survived back then, and while we had legal issues, they were resolved without lawsuits.

Knowname wrote:Your gonna wait till Phade gets fined 3 million dollars (and Piratebay got off cheap if you ask me) for copyright infringement and abating a crime then your gonna sit at home and think 'well maybe if we did this...'


Where are you getting this from? The concern about "50 users with 100+ local uploads" is in relation to this being a technical problem, not a legal one. The legal problem is there with one AMV on local or a hundred thousand. Should another 40 users, in addition to the 8 alluded to by doki, the one dude already mentioned by name, and myself, within the next year go over 100 locally-hosted videos, I and likely the admin team will admit that this influx that you're hyperventilating about is actually happening, and may be something to become concerned about.

It's not going to happen, though.

Knowname wrote:if left unabated stunts such as these won't be very kind to our servers to say the least. As I said, the org has always had a reputation of being for the 'elite' right now ppl are still struggling with avis, we've been using mp4s for 2, 3 years now. The norm, in fact the EXPECTED media of uploads has been mp4s for a while now, how many of this girls' amvs are mp4s? none, out of like 20 uploaded. If that is what we can expect multiplied by the dozens of immigrators we get from YT then get ready for those HDs to fill in HALF the time due to the inferior encodes alone! And you don't expect to only get 4000 uploads next year IF a bunch of Yootubers add on do you? Never mind the original users we'll have at LEAST 4000 plus maybe... 1500 BADLY ENCODED videos next year? Double that second number since their badly encoded and you get 7000 nearly twice as much. Something too worry about? maybe not, maybe. But it won't last us no 10 years. Things like these tend to propigate not wait till we're ready for them.


Should the following things be true, we might have a problem:
1) A historically unprecedented number of people make a historically unprecedented number of videos in a short time.
2) A significant number of these people eschew the speed and simplicity of the YouTube upload process to take the relatively more complex and time-consuming step of publishing their work on the .org, and actually follow through with publishing all of it.
3) Too few of them donate relative to their uploaded throw weight to allow for an upgrade path.

Only the third is likely in any realistic sense. The most likely case is that, absent another significant dislocation, equivalent to YouTube effectively ceasing to exist for AMV purposes, current trends will continue. Uploads per year will continue to drop, along with downloads per week. Take a look at any random week on the star scale this year and see how many videos had at least 80 stars that week. Then take a look at the same week from 2006 and marvel at the difference. I agree that complacency is death to any DIY endeavor, but things may not really be as black as they get painted sometimes.

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Re: Commenting system outdatted?

Postby Knowname » Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:02 am

Kai Stromler wrote:
Knowname wrote:Your gonna wait till Phade gets fined 3 million dollars (and Piratebay got off cheap if you ask me) for copyright infringement and abating a crime then your gonna sit at home and think 'well maybe if we did this...'


Where are you getting this from? The concern about "50 users with 100+ local uploads" is in relation to this being a technical problem, not a legal one. The legal problem is there with one AMV on local or a hundred thousand. Should another 40 users, in addition to the 8 alluded to by doki, the one dude already mentioned by name, and myself, within the next year go over 100 locally-hosted videos, I and likely the admin team will admit that this influx that you're hyperventilating about is actually happening, and may be something to become concerned about.

It's not going to happen, though.

What? Do you not believe the tech site I linked to? Sure their not CNN but TechRepublic or whatever site I linked isn't a tabloid place, tons of stories have been broken there. I can also link you to a dozen or more sites covering this story! Where am I getting this from?? The internet you heard of it?? :).

And then you repeat yourself from the last post saying you won't do anything until AFTER the fact. Grow some balls Sally.

Kai Stromler wrote:
Knowname wrote:if left unabated stunts such as these won't be very kind to our servers to say the least. As I said, the org has always had a reputation of being for the 'elite' right now ppl are still struggling with avis, we've been using mp4s for 2, 3 years now. The norm, in fact the EXPECTED media of uploads has been mp4s for a while now, how many of this girls' amvs are mp4s? none, out of like 20 uploaded. If that is what we can expect multiplied by the dozens of immigrators we get from YT then get ready for those HDs to fill in HALF the time due to the inferior encodes alone! And you don't expect to only get 4000 uploads next year IF a bunch of Yootubers add on do you? Never mind the original users we'll have at LEAST 4000 plus maybe... 1500 BADLY ENCODED videos next year? Double that second number since their badly encoded and you get 7000 nearly twice as much. Something too worry about? maybe not, maybe. But it won't last us no 10 years. Things like these tend to propigate not wait till we're ready for them.


Should the following things be true, we might have a problem:
1) A historically unprecedented number of people make a historically unprecedented number of videos in a short time.
2) A significant number of these people eschew the speed and simplicity of the YouTube upload process to take the relatively more complex and time-consuming step of publishing their work on the .org, and actually follow through with publishing all of it.
3) Too few of them donate relative to their uploaded throw weight to allow for an upgrade path.

Only the third is likely in any realistic sense. The most likely case is that, absent another significant dislocation, equivalent to YouTube effectively ceasing to exist for AMV purposes, current trends will continue. Uploads per year will continue to drop, along with downloads per week. Take a look at any random week on the star scale this year and see how many videos had at least 80 stars that week. Then take a look at the same week from 2006 and marvel at the difference. I agree that complacency is death to any DIY endeavor, but things may not really be as black as they get painted sometimes.

A good point that Sally brought up here... but I never understood HOW is the org's process of uploading a video so much worse than YTs? Is it the FTP or is it the announcing process? If a video is not announced does it then not exist? (hypothetical question) I don't think you know what your talking about Sally! You say no way the coarts will come after us when I provide a link to where obviously they can. You compare the now to 2005?? C'MON!! Where am I seeing that we have CLOSE to the same membership of 2005, and more important where am I seeing the QUALITY of ppl as that time. Nowhere, face it, the help forums is dead, the guide is in the grave and less and less mods are needed cuz the HOBBY (as we know it) IS DYING. We have almost NO leadership, those who are providing have been around for years I don't see the wonderful glitzy future that we saw in 2005. So, Kionon advanced, how is this 2005??
You don't believe there's any reason to worry. apparently your not one to worry about anything in the first place! I'm not predicting the end of the world, go ahead, do your thing. I did say the hobby will survive (if not in this thread in another one just like it) and that's pretty much all your concerned with.
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Re: Commenting system outdatted?

Postby Kai Stromler » Sat Dec 19, 2009 5:52 am

I'm beginning to think you're continuing this exclusively to hear yourself talk, but for the sake of any peanut gallery I'm willing to give this one more go.

Knowname wrote:
Kai Stromler wrote:The concern about "50 users with 100+ local uploads" is in relation to this being a technical problem, not a legal one.

What? Do you not believe the tech site I linked to?


We are talking past one another. The risk of legal action is in no way related to the number of new videos added. This is an extant problem whether, as noted previously, there is one video on local or a hundred thousand. If this is a problem, it is new viewers that are the problem, regardless of how many videos they make.

Knowname wrote: I never understood HOW is the org's process of uploading a video so much worse than YTs? Is it the FTP or is it the announcing process? If a video is not announced does it then not exist? (hypothetical question)


This has nothing to do with announcements. The simple fact is that the .org requires you to go through a total of six pages (add new video->video info->music->anime->request upload->page with the upload info), several of which require you to add content in a sensical way, before your catalog entry is complete and you can start putting the video up. On Youtube, you're uploading the video while you fill out the metadata, should you want to fill out the metadata at all.

Knowname wrote:the HOBBY (as we know it) IS DYING. We have almost NO leadership, those who are providing have been around for years I don't see the wonderful glitzy future that we saw in 2005. So, Kionon advanced, how is this 2005??
You don't believe there's any reason to worry. apparently your not one to worry about anything in the first place!


1) We can't have new people coming in! Somebody might report us to the feds!
2) Ohnoes teh hobby is dying because people are quitting at natural rates of attrition and there's no new blood!

:roll:

This sort of hyperventilation is why I was reluctant to reply again, because this makes this entire argument a pisstake (unless you're actually serious :shock: ). As I said in my last post, .org use is declining rather than increasing, and is likely to continue to do so absent some kind of dislocation equivalent to the Tube ceasing to exist. This is not 2005, and because the combination of circumstances that might lead to a reversion to the conditions from then that matter (no YouTube and an influx of people wanting to use local without donating their weight) are so completely nebulous, it's not worth getting worked up about. Sure, keep a weather eye on it, but srsly, now is not the time to panic.

As a last point, you're right, I don't worry. Risk is everywhere. When I go to work in the morning, I run a significant risk of getting spun out by some idiot and crushed into a beer can by a semi. I still make my commute twice a day. When I go out to shows, I run a significant risk of getting mugged en route or falling down and landing on a broken beer glass in the pit. I still go see live music. When I donate to the .org, I do so fully aware that I might have to answer to exactly those charges pointed out earlier, should things go colossally sideways, but I mail the check in anyways. Life is too short to let the fear of unlikely outcomes affect how you live it.

(ok, tl;dr over, not going to respond again unless someone raises an actual serious concern)

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Re: Commenting system outdatted?

Postby Athena » Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:15 am

Uhm... Can someone explain what that sentence with my name it means? Because honestly, I have no idea what I advanced, and I wasn't very active in 2005, it was a dead year for me.
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Re: Commenting system outdatted?

Postby Knowname » Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:37 pm

Kai Stromler wrote:I'm beginning to think you're continuing this exclusively to hear yourself talk.


Yeah, the peanut gallery needs no more help :o I'm pretty much done ^_^ that last post was a brain fart. No use arguing with a wall.

Kionon wrote:Uhm... Can someone explain what that sentence with my name it means? Because honestly, I have no idea what I advanced, and I wasn't very active in 2005, it was a dead year for me.


Because your stuck in 1989 and he's obviously stuck in 2005 :P.
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Re: Commenting system outdatted?

Postby Phantasmagoriat » Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:53 pm

I didn't read this whole thread,
but I would support having a blog style quick comment system (with options of course), like:

-allow comments
----public
----private
-disable comments completely

I thought moderating might be an issue,
but then I though people should have the opportunity to solve
their own problems, while still having a button to report to the mods

I still don't know how I feel about options like:
-report as Spam
-Blocking specific Users
-Removing specific comments

...because then people could just remove whatever they don't like,
and that kinda defeats the purpose of allowing comments in the first place
[since allowing comments means you are willing to accept both the good and the bad]
...although it would certainly addresses the issue of moderating if that became an issue.

so anyways, I'm fine with the current system because it's different
but I would support a change as well.

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Re: Commenting system outdatted?

Postby Ileia » Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:28 pm

Kionon wrote:Uhm... Can someone explain what that sentence with my name it means? Because honestly, I have no idea what I advanced, and I wasn't very active in 2005, it was a dead year for me.


I'm pretty sure that Knowname is just a random sentence generator. Probably some offshoot of Stirspeare.
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Re: Commenting system outdatted?

Postby Knowname » Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:26 pm

The fish goes with the tartar sauce for tonight's dinner.
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Re: Commenting system outdatted?

Postby Athena » Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:49 am

Phantasmagoriat wrote:I didn't read this whole thread,
but I would support having a blog style quick comment system (with options of course), like:

-allow comments
----public
----private
-disable comments completely


I approve of this idea. As long as I get to disable comments on my videos, I am good with a system like this.

However, that being said, that would require a lot of coding, and the admins have made it quite clear there will be no new coding for the foreseeable future, which makes this conversation (beat that dead horse, YEAH, beat it AGAIN!) entirely moot.
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Re: Commenting system outdatted?

Postby Panky » Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:12 pm

Kionon wrote:
Phantasmagoriat wrote:I didn't read this whole thread,
but I would support having a blog style quick comment system (with options of course), like:

-allow comments
----public
----private
-disable comments completely


I approve of this idea. As long as I get to disable comments on my videos, I am good with a system like this.

However, that being said, that would require a lot of coding, and the admins have made it quite clear there will be no new coding for the foreseeable future, which makes this conversation (beat that dead horse, YEAH, beat it AGAIN!) entirely moot.


You could add a private tag for each video entered in the database. If the user allows them publically in that specific video, then they would show for everyone(I'm not quite sure how it's all coded, but I guess there is an entry for video in the DB). However, what should be watched over liked he said is the moderating of the comments. Letting the owner of the video delete each comment, would be just fine, but it might be looked as censure by some people.
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Re: Commenting system outdatted?

Postby Scintilla » Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:45 pm

Knowname wrote:ANYWAY my only point here is, our space (as a PRIVATE venture, not a PUBLIC COMPANY) here is MANY TIMES more finite than Yewtoob's, we can afford a few jokers, a few mishaps and badly encoded videos, but until recently the org has been ruled by the 'elite' and 'stuck up' crowd, pretty much all uploads were mp4s and encoded at least decently... who's the one with the 'did you forget to encode you audio?' link in their sig? Scintilla? Zarxrax? lol I snicker at that every time I see it :/ not only is that a non-issue now but it's also basically obsolete with all the mp4s out! Well anyway, such a waste of space :|

You say that, but even now in 2010, I keep seeing New Vids on the Block that are encoded XviD/PCM. :?
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