Simplicity vs. Frills: What makes good editing?

This forum is for the general discussion of Anime Music Videos.

Simplicity vs. Frills: What makes good editing?

Postby BishounenStalker » Tue Dec 31, 2002 7:31 pm

What makes better editing in your opinion? Good timing or use of special effects?

I personally prefer good timing/beat-matching over effects. Sure, effects can look really good and they're difficult as all hell to edit, but to me they tend to be distracting (especially lens flares and borders).

Anyone else?
User avatar
BishounenStalker
 
Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Location: 10th Circle of Hell

Postby ErMaC » Tue Dec 31, 2002 7:39 pm

That's like asking which is better, chocolate or vanilla?

The best combination is them together, both done well.

Anyone can do decent timing, and anyone can do decent sfx, but a great video is when you get just the right mix of both, done well.
User avatar
ErMaC
The Man who puts the "E" in READFAG
 
Joined: 24 Feb 2001
Location: Irvine, CA

Postby BMXRIDERSI » Tue Dec 31, 2002 7:48 pm

Nowadays people are coming out with new fancy effects that draw their attention. In most cases an effect can be very persuading, so much that the viewer ends up focusing on the effect rather than whats going on. Some times i see videos that are so technical i have to watch it over like 5 times to understand why this and that is moving. Effects are kewl to have, just bad when used to much, because i think the feeling when anime and music are put together with a perfect sync and feeling it makes the viewer want to watch it again to experience the same mood. Same goes for effects only they might wanna watch it again to see how the effect was done, or so more than they did the first time. You'll know what to do, just look for that feeling and you'll know how much effects to put. Just try not to rush or over do anything :wink:
BMXRIDERSI
 
Joined: 18 Mar 2002

Postby trythil » Tue Dec 31, 2002 7:54 pm

ErMaC wrote:That's like asking which is better, chocolate or vanilla?


That is a hard question...both are aphrodisiacs :D

Back on topic:

Frills are neat, but what's really neat, to me, is when an editor can make a complex effect look simple. For example -- and at the risk of sounding arrogant -- I've been told that this animation sequence doesn't look like it was retouched, but it was actually the result of a lot of airbrushing and compositing.

Of course, even complex effects and compositing can't hide bad timing. If the editing sucks, then the video will suck.

In conclusion, I think I just wrote a longer, more conceited version of what ErMaC opined. It's the combination of both that really make a good video.
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 512 character limit.
trythil
is
 
Joined: 23 Jul 2002
Location: Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch

Postby ShonenDizzyCow » Tue Dec 31, 2002 10:21 pm

Hmmm. Aren't we forgetting one more critial ingredient that is so often neglected in favor of atomic precision timing or hyper flashy effects.

Footage selection.

Choosing the best footage there is for each edit I feel is even more critical in making a video better and is the core of good editing. Of couse this is not to say timing and effects aren't important, but they seem secondary to being able to choose the best scenes there is during editing.
User avatar
ShonenDizzyCow
 
Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Location: The Other Side of the Planet

Postby mexicanjunior » Tue Dec 31, 2002 10:25 pm

ShonenDizzyCow wrote:Hmmm. Aren't we forgetting one more critial ingredient that is so often neglected in favor of atomic precision timing or hyper flashy effects.

Footage selection.

Choosing the best footage there is for each edit I feel is even more critical in making a video better and is the core of good editing. Of couse this is not to say timing and effects aren't important, but they seem secondary to being able to choose the best scenes there is during editing.


And don't forget the shameless lyric synch. :wink:
User avatar
mexicanjunior
 
Joined: 27 Jun 2001
Location: Dallas, TX
Status: It's a process...

Postby Vlad G Pohnert » Tue Dec 31, 2002 10:35 pm

Both can be just as important (no preference for either way) as long as they are used right and it all depends on the porject!

timing/beat-matching can be screwed up and done badly just like a special effect.

Why only use a wrench when you have a whole tool box to choose from!

Vlad
User avatar
Vlad G Pohnert
 
Joined: 02 Jan 2001
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Postby jbone » Tue Dec 31, 2002 11:10 pm

mexicanjunior wrote:
ShonenDizzyCow wrote:Hmmm. Aren't we forgetting one more critial ingredient that is so often neglected in favor of atomic precision timing or hyper flashy effects.

Footage selection.

Choosing the best footage there is for each edit I feel is even more critical in making a video better and is the core of good editing. Of couse this is not to say timing and effects aren't important, but they seem secondary to being able to choose the best scenes there is during editing.

And don't forget the shameless lyric synch. :wink:

Who needs lyric synch when you've got a solid concept? :wink:
"If someone feels the need to 'express' himself or herself with a huge graphical 'singature' that has nothing to do with anything, that person should reevaluate his or her reasons for needing said form of expression, possibly with the help of a licensed mental health practitioner."
User avatar
jbone
 
Joined: 12 Jan 2002
Location: DC, USA
Status: Single. (Lllladies.)

Postby Fluxmeister » Wed Jan 01, 2003 2:54 am

mexicanjunior wrote:And don't forget the shameless lyric synch. :wink:


Who needs lyrics? :P (been a while since one of my videos has even
had lyrics...)

If special effects aren't timed at all... well then what's the point? So
overall, timing wins.

Lens Flares are funny... just funny... kind of like radial blur/zoom... or
other drag and drop effects (invert being my #1 fav :P x 5000). If an
effect seems to fit naturally with the video... it's a good thing... if it looks
forced or is excessively used... it's worthless.
I have sinned. I made a video I wanted to make that was music + anime + sync + action + effects/transitions. Oh lordy. :roll:
NHMK Anime Reviews
User avatar
Fluxmeister
 
Joined: 07 Feb 2001
Location: Seattle, WA

Postby NME » Wed Jan 01, 2003 5:45 am

Vanilla owns. Period.
nil per os
NME
 
Joined: 13 Jul 2001
Location: Far Country
Status: nauseating bliss

Postby Paul Kievits » Wed Jan 01, 2003 10:03 am

jbone wrote:Who needs lyric synch when you've got a solid concept? :wink:


*Bang* Jbone hit the nail on the head. What are effects and timing? Honestly, who gives a fuck? Sure they add to your general enjoyment of the video but if you don't have a concept your video just ends up being meaningless middle-of-the-road crap. The good videos, and I mean the really great ones all stand out. Is it because of heaps of special effects or great timing? No. They stand out because they come up with great innovative scenes that make you not only look at something in a different way then usual not like "oh it's this anime and he used this scene" but like something that's totally new and original. Concept comes first all other things are important but not critical.

Just my $0.02
Get my 5th video "Mass Murderer": here
User avatar
Paul Kievits
 
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Location: Vlaardingen, The Netherlands

Postby OmniStrata » Wed Jan 01, 2003 1:30 pm

Symbolism, sex, passion, drama, timing...

[oh wait]

this is amvs, not movies... ^_^

Well, some would say "special fx" and the frills and such...
My vote is in the effects and complexity.

Does that make me "simple". [lemming ^_^]

FALSE! As an editor, I feel learning effects is important [just an opinion]

However, I'd like to mention that simple editing [fades at most] can make spectacular results for a video.
[TaranT's Sakura comes to mind. I HIGHLY suggest grabbing it]

I'm for good effects. [well timed, on the beat, tough to duplicate effects]
NOT canned effects [drag and drop stupidity. However, well timed keyframed drag and drop effects aren't bad...]

So, I'm leaning [in my videos] to effects, but in terms of "all" anime videos, you need BOTH...

What good is a recipe when you have only 1/2 the ingredients? You need timing, some synch or symbolism of some sort, GOOD effects [or none at all, NOT bad effects], a concept, and to "fake" it, SEVERAL cuts within the entire song itself. "Needle in my Hand" comes to mind. I'm unsure of its concept but in terms of action timing to the beat, it's DAMN good.
"Strength lies in action. Let the weak react to me..." - Kamahl, Pit Fighter from Magic: the Gathering
"That is a mistake many of my enemies make. They think before they act. I act before I think!" - Vortigern from Merlin ('98)
"I AM REBORN!" - Dark Schneider Bastard!! OAV
User avatar
OmniStrata
 
Joined: 01 Aug 2001
Location: Chicago
Status: Wealthy

Postby Nightowl » Wed Jan 01, 2003 6:28 pm

Effects have nothing to do with editing. In the end, an effect placed on a frame is just another piece of footage to cut. When one makes a video, there will be editing, regardless; this does not guarantee effects. The only reason one should use effects is to enhance the concept at hand, simple as that. If effects aren't necessary to get your point across, why bother?

-N
User avatar
Nightowl
 
Joined: 29 May 2001

Postby Vlad G Pohnert » Wed Jan 01, 2003 6:34 pm

Nightowl wrote:Effects have nothing to do with editing. In the end, an effect placed on a frame is just another piece of footage to cut. When one makes a video, there will be editing, regardless; this does not guarantee effects. The only reason one should use effects is to enhance the concept at hand, simple as that. If effects aren't necessary to get your point across, why bother?

-N


Quite right!

As with timming, there must be some sort of timming in a video but special effects are optional. Hence the point of this thread of comparing the two comes back to ErMaC's statement that is really is pointless to ask which is better since one is a requirement the other isn't..

Vlad
User avatar
Vlad G Pohnert
 
Joined: 02 Jan 2001
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Postby Flint the Dwarf » Wed Jan 01, 2003 9:36 pm

Yeah out of timing and special effects, I'd have to say... concept. It really is the primary factor, and those two, timing and special effects, should be used to complement it. Not to create it. Concept is tough enough to deal with as it is.

But, to ignore other factors... I'd say timing. Pace and rhythm for a video is more important, I believe, than how it looks on the surface. Even if the effects are done very well and have no flaws, timing is what makes the video. Besides concept. :wink:

That's my opinion at least. Which is... alll mine!
Kusoyaro: We don't need a leader. We need to SHUT UP. Make what you want to make, don't make you what you don't want to make. If neither of those applies to you, then you need to SHUT UP MORE.
User avatar
Flint the Dwarf
 
Joined: 16 Jan 2002
Location: Ashland, WI

Next

Return to General AMV

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests