Ek leaving... and maybe me too

This forum is for the general discussion of Anime Music Videos.

Postby MaboroshiStudio » Tue Jul 02, 2002 11:38 pm

Zarxrax wrote:Joe, let's sit back for a second here and take a look at the situation. I just went back and read your original post again. Basically you say that this community is quite pointless merely because people write pointless reviews that are merely pointless praise. Now on account of this, you don't think you want to be a part of the site.
Do I have this correct?

Now let's take a further step back. What is the purpose of this site? For people to get in-depth reviews? Hell no! The whole point of the site is to help create a database of every AMV known to man. Now are you saying that you, one of the most influential people in the AMV community, would totally screw Phade's site over by refusing to add in your videos, simply because people don't write detailed enough reviews for you??? Come on now! If you don't like the reviews your getting, no one is making you read them! Rather than getting all huffy and leaving, wouldn't it be more mature to simply ignore all your reviews, but still input your info for the good of the database?


I am not going to repost everything I have said, but you really have missed the point totally... that or you are ignoring what I have typed and taking a very simplistic negative approach with this post. I never said a lot of what you have fabricated in your post. It is like you are trying to make it look as if I said these things which I didn't and I don't appreciate this at all.

I never said the community was pointless... I NEVER talked about not liking the reviews I have gotten or demanding detailed reviews to which I question if you can read or just make stuff up as you go. I was talking about worship perfect 10 reviews and how they devalue the current system and maybe a way of recommending a video thus giving it praise this way would be better. Is this so wrong trying to talk about an alternative method for people who just want to give a video praise vs leaving a so-called perfect 10 review with nothing but "great video"? I honestly don't have problems with the reviews I get. I enjoy the review process and wish it was more robust so you could ask questions of the reviewer vs hope they will re-review their comments on your video. So your comments about ignoring my reviews where did you come up with this crap since I never said I had a problem with them? I never said I was leaving either... only that I have considered it and it was due to personal reasons just as much if not more.

I am very disappointed with your post seeing how you make wild assumptions which are mostly negative taking personal shots at me while telling me to be mature. Maybe you missed what I was going after which I have tried to make clear in my following posts. I assume you only looked at my original post and made all of your conclusions from that one post... I don't see how you could have made this post otherwise.
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Postby SailorDeath » Wed Jul 03, 2002 12:02 am

I still remember the good old days of AMV's before it's popularity exploded, back before there was even an Animemusicvideos.org. I wish we could go back to those days. Recently I find myself surrounded by a whole lot of creators who take that "Holier-Than-Thou" additude. Makes me want to vomit sometimes. I've never really done much when it comes to the AMV community myself. Which is why I like opinions but not the scoring, because the opinion actually tells me something about the video.
Gimme a minute, I'll make a cool one....
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Postby jbone » Wed Jul 03, 2002 12:54 am

SailorDeath wrote:Recently I find myself surrounded by a whole lot of creators who take that "Holier-Than-Thou" additude.


I prefer to not be the one filled with holes. *Whips out a chaingun*
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Re: The Golden Age of AMV's is over.

Postby Sub0 » Wed Jul 03, 2002 1:28 am

MaboroshiStudio wrote:and my point is that the lack of objective reviews DEVALUE this system so imho it is already tainted / ruined... with a lot of these so-called reviews which are just praise imho. These reviews skew what is considered to be good and creates a bad stereo-type of the ideal video. You can love a video, but that doesn't mean look beyond the faults of that video which I feel a good percentage of reviews do. I understand your point, but you are talking in regards to a perfect world... where all reviews are insightful, objective, and unbiased. Simply put that isn't the reality of a-m-v.org and why we feel that it is currently hurting the amv community in our honest humble opinions.


maybe that's why nobody reviews my videos... yeah.... everybody LOVES them ;-p
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Re: The Golden Age of AMV's is over.

Postby NPC3000 » Wed Jul 03, 2002 1:30 am

MaboroshiStudio wrote:
Maybe I wasn't clean enough... I meant the rating / number system and the top 10. I have no probs with the reviews and think they are good to have, but when the review system is used as a popularity contest for people's fav videos then the rating NUMBERS devalue the system.


*sigh of relief* Good! it's nice to know that you as well as others are not totally against reviewing on this site because I think it's one of the best things a-m-v.org has to offer, in spite of its flaws. As for the number system, I'm fairly neutral about it for reasons I'll get into only if you really want me to.

My point was that reviews are valuable to the a-m-v.org community and removing them completely, I think, would greatly devalue the place...but I already explained all that before so I'll be quiet now.
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aah get over it...

Postby Sub0 » Wed Jul 03, 2002 1:44 am

I currently do my reviews based on WHY I gave them that score... A thumbs up/ down leaves too much too the immagination, it's as good as 'I liek your vdo, it r0xx0rz!!'
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Postby silver_moon » Wed Jul 03, 2002 2:27 am

I've pretty much stayed away from posting on this but I feel I have to say something.....

People.... think of the person who worked so hard to get you this awesome site that gives you almost everything you ever wanted for your AMV: a voice for your video in a colossal catalog of AMV's, guides to help you make your AMVs better, a forum where people can discuss their creations and how to make them better, and a review system that also allows you to make your videos better, and in the hopeful future a place to host your videos (hail the Golden Donut!)

One thing that I couldn't help but notice is what it says in the "about us" section of the website:

This is Kris (aka. Phade) and I would like to welcome you to www.AnimeMusicVideos.org. My goal with this web site is to create a place where people who enjoy and create anime music videos can get together, share ideas, learn from one another, and ultimately have everyone creating better videos.

I want to point out the last part: "and ultimately have everyone creating better videos". I believe this was the purpose of the entire review system, to have people learning from others and making better videos. I know that almost every one of my reviews has been helpful, at least nine out of ten of them. Except for I think a total of maybe one or two exceptions, they were ALL helpful, useful and thoughtful to me.

Before I found this site, I knew nothing about AMV's. Now, I know a lot. I learned from people. I know what makes a good video. I found good videos that I thoroughly enjoy watching. And most of all, my videos improved TREMENDOUSLY, mainly because people gave me in-depth reviews that I thought about what they're trying to tell me. I think about why people give me the numbers they do too, because I'm sure they put thought into grading those too. They gave those marks for a reason, and I learned from them.
I incorporated this new learning into my latest video, along with my own personal ideas to come up with something new in my latest video, which has yet to be released.

THANK YOU to everyone who helped me achieve this, everyone who has given me such useful reviews (which is 95% of you); you made wonderful use of the review system.

And THANK YOU PHADE for this site. You tried your very hardest to bring us this awesome site, and you created the reviews section in the way you thought it should be. I like the review system. It helped me with my main goal: make better videos that I enjoy creating and watching.

This should be good enough for any of us, unless you're into the popularity tests. But that's not what it's supposed to be about. We're doing this because it's a fun hobby. It's not like we make more money if our videos are marked higher in a review. We have to think of our priorities, and why we want other people to see them in the first place.

To everyone: make the best videos you can and have the most fun making them you know how.... then spread the joy and love for what you do to other people so they can enjoy your work too.

WORK FOR THE FUTURE AND PROSPERITY OF THIS AWESOME SITE! If Phade can work that hard, we can all take the time to contibute to making this site an even better place.

and....

LOVE AND PEACE!!!
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Postby fellowhoodlum » Wed Jul 03, 2002 2:37 am

Hear, hear. o.o v
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Postby StudioKZ » Wed Jul 03, 2002 3:08 am

I haven't been to any yet, Doki, but I've seen Acen, AZ and Jacon(Thanks to Quu), and heard about A-kon and Katsu (And seen the Ballot)
...IT'S <gasp>

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Postby punistation » Wed Jul 03, 2002 3:35 am

"There's pretty much only one forum I actively watch and that is the convention contest one." - OUTLAWED

..."I don't see anything new or any compelling reason for me to stay." - STUDIOKZ

"I'm just going to disappear back into the shadows... until I feel it necessary to make my presence known here again... - KHAND... something



Why is it so many people keep posting here to tell us why they DON'T post here? Do they want us to feel bad about not being graced with their presence? If you don't want to post here, don't post here. Stop trying to convince us that we should feel bad because we post here. We're all having fun in our treehouse; so stop bursting in, rant about how you don't want in anyway, then stomp out feeling superior. It only serves to reassure us we are better off without you.



"The Golden Age of AMV's online was..."


The first priority of a whinger is to complain how things were always better "back when...". The rest of us, however, prefer to spend our time enjoying the Age we're in, in spite of you.



"Where's that kind of spirit here?"


The first priority of the contemptable is to go to internet message boards, complain how another place at another time was better, while at the same time doing absolutely nothing to create that same spirit here. Such a creature prefers to leave such action, and the effort required to do so, to others... all the while doing nothing themselves. After getting tired of waiting, they post a long rant about why they're leaving, and rest the blame solely on everyone's laziness to keep him/her interested enough to stay.

Allow me to repeat myself from my first post on the subject, wa~aaaaay back in the beginning.

*a-hem*


If you don't wanna' be here... Image




"...have you seen any of the videos from this year, so far? There's maybe FIVE memorable ones..." - STUDIOKZ



If you ask me (which you did. I heard you!), the reason people think AMV's aren't as good as they used to be is because they convinced themselves the oldies were greater then they were, only because there was so few around.

AMV's were rare way back when, and have since boomed in popularity, in addition becoming more accessable. With so much more people creating music video's, we can start having standards by which to judge them. We can start sayin "this one is better than that one", instead of being glad one exists at all.

This thesis has stark similarities to the question of "Why today's computer games suck", debated at PENNY ARCADE a year ago. "Sure the old games of yesteryear had crappy graphics, horrid sound, and next to no power... but they had soul! They were art! Todays excessive glut of games are merely shallow and hollow, masked by high-res video & sound, partnered with needless FMV"


Ditto' with AMV's.

"Sure, the old AMV's of yesteryear had pirate-copy VHS video, static audio, and next to no effects... but they had soul! They were art! Today's excessive glut of AMV's are merely shallow and hollow, masked by DVD-quality video & direct-from-CD audio, partnered with needless Premiere Effects"

No, AMV's haven't gotten worse. YOU have just seen too many, for too long. You've become a connaisseur, constantly demanding bigger and better, while always comparing today's crop as incomparable to that which you grew up with.



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Postby Professional 666 » Wed Jul 03, 2002 3:46 am

I like the old phorum better. Less visual distractions.
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Postby phantom_112 » Wed Jul 03, 2002 4:02 am

Since I have only been a member of the org for about a year now, I have no reason to fade out of its existance yet. But as I learn more about cons and why people make AMV's in the first place, I find it a paradox that most of them want to make good videos to win at cons, I myself would much rather make a video for the fun of it, the only recent AMV that I have seen that was made mostly for FUN was AbsoluteDestiny's Shameless Rock Video.

Sure this video didn't make the finals list for AX but it is a fun video to watch. Sure there is nothing wrong with making an AMV for a con but it should also be fun to make, theres no need to pour all your time and sweat into something that may or may not win.

I first got into AMV's because I thought it was something cool to do, and have progressed from that to it being FUN to do.

It is not the making of "The Org" that has made amv's more competetive, it has been the cons, such as AX, JACON, etc that have... Sure it would be cool to win an award, but just getting my video shown on the "big screen" would satisfy be enough.

I say stop worring about the Cons and just do an AMV for the fun of it, do them for your own sake, not because they might win at a con.


And lastly, have fun with creating videos.
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phant112: what else do you make fists with?

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Postby Garylisk » Wed Jul 03, 2002 11:07 am

Professional 666 wrote:I like the old phorum better. Less visual distractions.


Wrong forum, wrong thread, wrong everything. Go to a website forum to b*tch about your attention deficit disorder and how graphics make you unable to read.
Get a life? I'm a gamer! I have lots of lives!
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Postby StudioKZ » Wed Jul 03, 2002 12:00 pm

Why is it so many people keep posting here to tell us why they DON'T post here?


Actually, because phpboard has this cool new feature that sends me email when somebody replies to me, I came back, directly back to this thread. :P

Quote:
"...have you seen any of the videos from this year, so far? There's maybe FIVE memorable ones..." - STUDIOKZ


If you ask me (which you did. I heard you!), the reason people think AMV's aren't as good as they used to be is because they convinced themselves the oldies were greater then they were, only because there was so few around.


There was no shortage of AMVs dating back farther than 1994-1995 (When I first saw AMVs and full on AMV contests), when you could just lay down a few scenes to music and call it a video, there weren't so few around, but those that were were either by people who already knew what they were doing or had some original and INTERESTING idea or concept they were trying to get across. (For the most part, obviously there were some bad ones even then)

AMV's were rare way back when, and have since boomed in popularity, in addition becoming more accessable. With so much more people creating music video's, we can start having standards by which to judge them. We can start sayin "this one is better than that one", instead of being glad one exists at all.


Again, they were rare when? Most people are talking about last year, the year before, and the year before dating back to 1998, *maybe*. The technology boom started in 1998 when suddenly it was feasible to edit video on your desktop machine, but yet, contests that I attended between 1995 and 1999 were always Packed houses and loaded with Videos. (Hell, Engle was what, 1998, 1999? That's still one of the most popular videos with people). You're alone in your thinking of yesteryear, it was *TEN* years ago that people were happy Videos existed at all and thus didn't judge them, those of us who are bothered by the current state of Fandom are bothered only by the last year and a half or so. That ain't Yesteryear that we're longing for.

<snip.. Don't bring Penny Arcade into this argument>

"Sure, the old AMV's of yesteryear had pirate-copy VHS video, static audio, and next to no effects... but they had soul! They were art! Today's excessive glut of AMV's are merely shallow and hollow, masked by DVD-quality video & direct-from-CD audio, partnered with needless Premiere Effects"


Again, you're alone in your definition of Yesteryear.
Have you seen the videos lately? I'm not saying new videos in general as though I were an old fart, I'm talking about videos from just this year.

No, AMV's haven't gotten worse. YOU have just seen too many, for too long. You've become a connaisseur, constantly demanding bigger and better, while always comparing today's crop as incomparable to that which you grew up with.


O.o This is wrong on so many levels. We're not talking about Music here, we're not talking about the sorry-ass New Metal Rap-Rock that's gracing our radios, we're talking about Anime fans and Music Videos. Nobody is demanding bigger and better, people are demanding good. People want to see videos that were made for the fun of making them and not for the sake of being considered cool at a convention or as a tool to become a sort of con celebrity. AMVs may or may not be Art, but nobody is asking for videos with 'soul', they're asking for videos that are FUN. As I said, FIVE fun and memorable videos. (although I miscounted as I was counting them up again last night, there are more like Eight or Nine, but I can't for the life of me remember the ninth one. Of those, one of them isn't even *especially* well made(It was well made enough), but it's *FUN* and *ORIGINAL* and that's the important part (UY - 'It wasn't me' by Shaggy).).

Matt Murray (if you even know who he is) said once (and I paraphrase)that 'Especially with today's technology, hitting the beats on time is so easy that anybody can do it. There has to be something else to a video that compels you to want to watch it.'

That's the problem with videos today, they're technically fine, but uncompelling, because well, everybody is spreading their wings and testing out this new $200 video capture hardware and their pirate copy of Premiere, because it's absolutely vital that *ALL* new creators use Premiere, because it's what everybody else uses!!!(Incidentally, it's not.)

Also, incidentally, You are incorrect. This is why I don't DOWNLOAD Videos that I haven't seen before, because there are so many out there, I don't want to deal with sorting through them. The good ones usually end up at Conventions (Although I pointed out to somebody that perhaps the reason this year is suffering is that the older creators don't want to deal with the competition or the pettyness surrounding it ("What?! My Video didn't get in?! But it was so popular at <insert con here>!! You suck! Your Con Sucks! All of this list of creators who did get in SUCK!"), while new creators who might be decent will never find out because they visit the Org or the ML or AMV panels and discussions at Cons and decide that they don't stand a chance of even getting shown at a con because of all of the blowhards arguing over petty stuff.)

I'm not a Connaisseur and I'm not overloaded with Music Videos as such, I watch only what shows up at cons and so far this year is pretty weak in comparison to the last two years.

That's my only point.
...IT'S <gasp>

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Postby jbone » Wed Jul 03, 2002 12:15 pm

Garylisk wrote:Go to a website forum to b*tch about your attention deficit disorder and how graphics make you unable to read.


This, coming from someone whose avatar directly breaks the site's rule? :-D
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