Copy-Protection DVDs??

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Copy-Protection DVDs??

Postby rubyeye » Sat Nov 09, 2002 1:33 pm

This little thread posted by TaranT in the music section about the eventual copy-protection of all CDs in the furture had me thinking:

http://www.animemusicvideos.org/phpBB/v ... php?t=5971


*** would DVDs ever become "copy-protected" or should I say Un-rippable? I know there's the Macrovision thing but would there come a time when we see an official declaration of somebody announcing the creation of new DVD technology that's copy-protected, as the music industry is recently attempting to standardize?

Personally I don't think it's time for us, specifically AMV editors, to start looking for a new hobby, since it's almost a guarantee that even if such an innovation becomes a reality, somebody, somewhere will "crack the code" as it were and teach the rest of us how to outsmart those corporate fuckers. (my apologies to any CEOs out there).

I've cited on that thead my argument for the un-marketable developement of copy-protected CDs and how MP3 technology would seemingly reach an evolutionary dead-end. But what kind of argument could there be for DVDs, other than censorship, if that even applies??
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Postby iserlohn » Sat Nov 09, 2002 1:40 pm

I just bought my first DVD-Audio last night (Blue Man Group: Audio) and my PC can't read the audio sector for playback. I didn't bother trying to rip it, though, and with all the watermarking I doubt it would be easy to recompress it easily anyhow.

That being said, BMG rocked my world anyhow and on the flip side provided a 5.1DD and 5.1 DTS edition of the album (full bitrate for both IIRC) in DVD-Video (with some fun stills) format. This, of course, rips fine and can be downconverted to 2.0 for MP3 or CD burning easily.

With that in mind, I'm tempted to buy the CD version anyways - the tracks are different lengths and in a different order and the mix really does have a different sound to it. Damn them for coming up with this really neat marketing ploy...and I know the CD's not copy protected because I've got the MP3s and they sound ripped, not like an analog pass.

Where's all this ranting going? Simple. Virgin didn't need to copy protect "Audio" to get me to buy it. They put out a sleek, sexy DVD edition with about 15-20 min. of QUALITY video extras, liner notes on the funky instruments, and a fun sticker as a physical extra. All this made it worth my $18. If none of this was around, copy protection wouldn't matter - I wouldn't bother to pay for it new...and possibly even used if I weren't using it in a project.

The best way to copy protect your goods is to make them appealing enough to buy. Pity the record companies haven't figured that out yet.
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Postby Hakura » Sat Nov 09, 2002 2:12 pm

Even if the time comes where DVD becomes unripabble, there is always capturing from the tv.

Lose a bit of quality but you can still do what you love ^^
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Postby Rozard » Sat Nov 09, 2002 2:16 pm

Or like I said in the previous, some smart person will come along and crack it. :)
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Postby RadicalEd0 » Sat Nov 09, 2002 2:25 pm

DVDs already are copy protected, with CSS encryption. In fact ripping a DVD has been declared illegal because circumventing CSS is breaking trade secrets (fancy term for undoing the copy protection).
The way DVD players read DVDs is by using a specific key to unlock the CSS.
DVDs would be un-rippable if it werent for Xing, who released a software DVD player but forgot to encrypt that key within the software. Some guy stole the code and implemented it into the first ripper called DeCSS.
Its essentially this code that all major dvd rippers are based on.

Its said that HD-DVD will have a much stronger encryption but as Rozard mentioned as long as there is encryption there will always be a way to circumvent it.
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Postby Mechaman » Sat Nov 09, 2002 3:05 pm

In fact ripping a DVD has been declared illegal because circumventing CSS is breaking trade secrets

Actually, it falls under the DMCA. Just another friendly reminder to Americans to vote, and keep abreast of politics.

What's sad is that CSS is a pathetically mickey-mouse encryption method. It's like chaining your bicycle with one of those vinyl-coated light chains, and then hiding a skeleton key for the lock in a pouch on the bike.
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Postby Mechaman » Sat Nov 09, 2002 3:34 pm

But of course, you don't need to take my word for it. Remember kids, weak encryption is just as bad as no encryption at all.
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Postby The Wired Knight » Sat Nov 09, 2002 5:49 pm

DVDs like to stick with macrovsion and the encodings therof and technically they are copyright protected. Does that stop us? Hell no.
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Postby Chaos Angel » Sat Nov 09, 2002 6:16 pm

Of course, as long as there is someone to argue for the consumer's right to make back-up copies of what they buy in the event that the original is accidentally destroyed or lost, anti-ripping technology will continue to be suppressed.

And, of course, there is also what has been said about there always being someone who will crack the code, so I fail to see how it will be much of an issue. Worst case scenario, we rely entirely on capture cards.
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Postby RadicalEd0 » Sat Nov 09, 2002 6:36 pm

the quote was actually originally from the military department in charge of keeping hackers out of government files, and I'm sure their encryption is much more secure than whatever hddvd would use
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Postby alternatefutures » Sat Nov 09, 2002 10:03 pm

iserlohn: DVD-Audio is not the same as a DVD, it just uses the same disc, but the encoding is totally different. This is why you need a specific DVD-Audio player to read it, not because of some copy-portection scheme. Besides, SACD is better ^^

And here's the rule. If you can view it, you can copy it. This is why the most effective copy protection schemes actually prevent legimate viewing and have consumers ticked off.
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Postby iserlohn » Sat Nov 09, 2002 10:56 pm

Alternate: I was aware of that. There's not a DVD-A ripper out yet either that I'm aware of...ah well, like DTS or DD 5.1 is SUCH a loss =)
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It won't happen

Postby Chao » Tue Nov 12, 2002 10:15 am

They keep saying that they are working on unbreakable copy protection but it is an impossible idea. If something can be read it can be copied. DVDs seemed uncopyable before DeCSS but now ripping a DVD is easy. Currently they are working on technologies that interfere with output such as Macrovision but these often have unwanted side effects (such as a new CD copy protection that renders the disc unreadable in PCs and actually damaged the firmware of some Mac cd drives). The only way is to include this "unbreakable" protection into the format and not try and tag it on afterwards. But even then people will create bypass chips and custom hardware to get round it.
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Postby The Wired Knight » Tue Nov 12, 2002 11:20 am

Not to mention there are things like the Sima color correcter that are designed to not read nor recognize these inhibitors and thus serve as a medium to bypass the technology. I've always felt that the reason companies say that they have an unbreakable one in the works is to try and scare potential rippers from working on things to beat it or even try because it is "unbreakable." A ridiculous and idealistic notion but I believe that is what the companies are thinking.
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Postby Vlad G Pohnert » Wed Nov 13, 2002 1:11 am

Actually, the industry has a VERY powerful copy protection tool available to them that defers copying more than anything else! They just got to start using it even more... What is this weapon?

Simple.... Low prices for DVDs!

Hec, make them cheap enough and it still makes the money since more will buy them and less will feel it's worth going through the hassle of copying... Sure there are those who still will, but like anything, you can't eliminate it completely.....

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