A newbie's thought's on anime music videos in general

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Postby Otohiko » Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:54 pm

Malificus wrote:
arzuro wrote:True, but a person with no talent can not even scratch at the heights a talented person can rise to.


I disagree. Everyone has some talents, and they are usually effective in oother areas if you use them right.


I think the very definition of "talent" is based on some kind of abstract "average" that doesn't exist. Talent isn't a +/- parameter, and there isn't really a standard person we can all look to and say "this person is not talented and also not below-average in any way - so everyone who can potentially do something better than this person is talented".

The whole debate on what "talent" implies in terms of ability is interesting: is it a "floor" or a "ceiling"?
I think what your (arzuro) view is here is that talent is something that gives a person a higher potential "ceiling". In sport, this is probably very true.

In art... things are more complicated, because we can't objectively define where that "ceiling" is. So for me, it makes a lot more sense to say that a person with talent starts out with much better possibilities and can get to "higher levels" (whatever they are) much quicker, but it's not true that a person without talent can't get to the exact same place as well - just with a lot more hard work, or perhaps with better-directed hard work.

Until we establish a ceiling for the "non-talented" person, if such a thing exists, we can't really speak of someone "talented" getting above that. Nor is there any height of achievement, in AMVs or otherwise, that everyone can agree on as the universal best. Just go to the music section and see some of the discussions on "best [whatever]" - and there'll be a million answers, and not one except my own has any relevance to what I see as the "top". So perhaps it's not a "top" at all - an upsetting thought given how much effort and attention I spent and continue to spend in finding it, but one which I'll have to accept.

[phew]
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Postby arzuro » Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:56 pm

Well all the people who reached extreme levels of skill were always said to be not only talented but gifted, that's my observation.
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Postby Otohiko » Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:12 pm

arzuro wrote:Well all the people who reached extreme levels of skill were always said to be not only talented but gifted, that's my observation.


Exactly, your observation.

I might want to agree, but my experience proves otherwise. My favorite musician, for instance, claims to have been born without any actual talent - and knowing his stylistic and philosophical approach very closely, I'm inclined to believe that. An expert on music in my family generally confirms that view.

That's the problem with these arguments - once you run into something where people's experiences show otherwise, you end up in the "woods/firewood" situation again.

Ah well :roll:
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Postby arzuro » Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:17 pm

If I was an awesome musician I'd claim I had no talent too, it would make me seem so much greater. Although I wouldn't place any bids on this, it might as well be true. It's just not the thing I'm inclined to believe. Making slow progress does not necessarily correspond to lack of talent, also talents will often lie dormant until they are discovered. I tend to see trees. Forests as a whole aren't awfully interesting when it comes to building stuff and heating my appartment, but then again, if my father had been a hunter and not a carpenter, things might have turned out differently for me.
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Postby JaddziaDax » Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:31 pm

semantics are fun... is the dead horse beaten yet??

lol either way people can cultivate talants and can gain talants, and someone who started out in the mud can work their way out, and people who started in the sky can easily fall.
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Postby arzuro » Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:36 pm

And people who swim far can drown all the easier, but the higher the climb, the deeper the fall, and you if don't ask, you get no no, although finders keepers and in the end eleven still is more than ten, but less than twelve.
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Postby JaddziaDax » Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:38 pm

see? this is why if I am competitive I only compete with myself lol... that way I only have to worry about doing what I feel is my best
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Postby arzuro » Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:41 pm

Well personally I can't get off my ass if there's noone I can try to beat. I need competition. Of course not too much, or else it becomes discouraging. I find it best when I have one prime adversary who is above the rest of the crowd by some distance, that really gives you something to swing at. Although none of this applies to amv in my case. Also I don't personally feel myself capable of actually besting anyone except in one very specific field. It's still good to have a north star.
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Postby live2direct » Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:45 pm

Otohiko wrote:- if I thought AMVs were [neccesarily] mere fanworks and [neccesarily] inferior to other forms of music videos, I wouldn't be here


AMVs ARE fanworks!
*smile*
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Postby Otohiko » Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:46 pm

live2direct wrote:
Otohiko wrote:- if I thought AMVs were [neccesarily] mere fanworks and [neccesarily] inferior to other forms of music videos, I wouldn't be here


AMVs ARE fanworks!


1) Of what?

2) Neccesarily?

I beg to differ on #2.
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Postby arzuro » Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:48 pm

Yeah but what I think he means to say that AMV's must not be limited to be "just fanworks" but can much rather aspire to be almost original work in their own right, and sometimes do reach that goal.
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Postby Otohiko » Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:52 pm

True enough.

I mean, for one, I've known many editors who've made AMVs of series they hated in general but liked how they looked and how they suited a certain song.

Oh, for the record... my AMVs actually ARE fanworks exclusively, but not for anime. They're fanworks for the music (or "music") of my choice :)
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Postby live2direct » Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:52 pm

staces wrote:As AMVs being inferior to other types of music videos, anyone with half a brain could film random shots of bands playing and splice it with scantily clad chicks in bikinis. Hell, I can do that by cranking my stereo, muting the TV and channel flipping. Personally, I see AMVs as the superior music video form. ^^


Well I can just put in one of my anime DVDs and crank up my stereo, and skip through chapters and theirs your average amv.
*smile*
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Postby arzuro » Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:53 pm

Heh making an AMV using an anime that one hates and music one doesn't like is truly a creepy prospect.
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Postby jubjub2 » Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:55 pm

arzuro wrote:Making slow progress does not necessarily correspond to lack of talent, also talents will often lie dormant until they are discovered.


Fortunately, talents are usually not discovered but developed. I can have the natural talent of being able to draw, but if I don't do anything to develop and enhance that talent, it goes nowhere.

My father is someone who has always strived to learn new things, and develop new talents. Over the years, he has taught himself to play the guitar, banjo, dobro (steel guitar) and piano. He has also taught himself how to knit, paint, draw and much more. None of these things came easily to him, but he worked at developing those skills within himself and for himself. The fact that others benefitted from his developed talents was just a nice side effect of his desire to better himself.

His only talents that came 'naturally' are his wonderful singing voice (which he doesn't use in public) and his analytical skills (he's an engineer with a resume that would make your head spin).

I think that applies to all of us, no matter our situation in life. Some people are able to make friends quickly (that is a talent), while others struggle. Public speaking is easy for some, and developed in others.

What would our lives be like if DaVinci stuck with drawing and hadn't delved into the realms of astronomy, anatomy, aeronautics and the such? If the Wright brothers had stuck to fixing bicycles? Hard work developed their talents. It wasn't discovered.

Same thing goes for this hobby. Not to put it on a level of DaVinci, but the talents developed while working on projects for this site aren't limited to editing.

You also mentioned that people probably wouldn't create AMVs if there wasn't an outlet for them, and you are woefully wrong there. I have been creating music videos in my head as long as I can remember. Long trips with nothing but the radio and my siblings for entertainment made me imagine that I was watching the scenery out the window of the car with a soundtrack. I'd imagine what would be a good image for certain parts of the song that was playing.

And that was before MTV. I think we had an 8-track still, and the only thing my parents listened to was Roger Miller and Johnny Cash or the radio. I still like Johnny Cash.

Luckily technology has caught up to my childhood daydreaming.

Here is one of my favorite little stories, and I'll stop:

A man was in the audience at a piano concert. The music was beautiful and overwhelming, so he decided to thank the pianist for the beautiful music. Approaching the artist, the man extended his hand and quipped, "I would give my life to be able to play the piano like that."

The pianist replied, "I have."
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