Stop the LIP FLAP!

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Postby Corran » Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:40 pm

Here is a couple lyrics from a song I'm listening to:

"When you touched my face
When you call my name
I'm burned with desire
But you left me in the rain"

Everytime I imagine editing to that section I see lip flap on the "When you call my name". While it isn't lip sync at all I would try my best to find a scene where it looks like the person is calling out to someone. I think this would be a good example of when lip flap is not always a bad thing.
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Postby Pwolf » Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:44 pm

Corran wrote:Here is a couple lyrics from a song I'm listening to:

"When you touched my face
When you call my name
I'm burned with desire
But you left me in the rain"

Everytime I imagine editing to that section I see lip flap on the "When you call my name". While it isn't lip sync at all I would try my best to find a scene where it looks like the person is calling out to someone. I think this would be a good example of when lip flap is not always a bad thing.


i agree... i used some lip flap for EBYT in one scene cause it made sense, but if i had kept lip flap in my other videos like ATWCD, it would ruin everything, so i edited my footage :P

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Postby JaddziaDax » Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:15 am

I think if its kept to a minimum then its all good... I dont mind a few here and there, but when people let scenes drag on for too long and let them just yap away, it can get boring quick...
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Postby Keeper of Hellfire » Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:22 am

Stop making stupid threads!

I hate people which only think "Black and White". Let me tell you something. Not only that there exists an infinite number of grey between them, an infinite number of colors exists too.

While it may be lazyness by the majority of editors to leave lip flap in, there exists many reasons beside lip synch to keep the lip flap or to intentionally put it in. In my last vid it cost me more effort to keep lip flap in one scene because I did rotoscoping and it meant I had to edit more frames to keep it, since the mouth was the only moving part.
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Re: Stop the LIP FLAP!

Postby FoxJones » Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:15 am

Adv1sor wrote:It's not that hard to edit around lip flap!

But I chose not to. I have talked about this one before and it seems I need to do that again.

The reason why people nowadays see lip flapping a problem is the amount of lip syncing done. Some people... they see good lip sync here and there and they automatically assume every AMV needs to have lip sync. It doesn't matter to them if it actually makes the anime less fitting the music/lyrics.. It just has to be there. Even with instrumental AMVs it's "See! His lip moved! AND IT WAS NOT SYNCED!".
When the lip sync/lip flap is needed/should-be-cut-out depends on the AMV. I agree there are times when lip flap is bad, and lip sync is good. But going on like "STOP THE LIP FLAP ZMG TRNNT IT'SREI!" is wrong. There are times when seeing a character not talking feels more stupid than a "lip flap". "so why not lip sync it?", some may ask.. There might be several reasons why not. Female singing, male character talking.. Singing is intensive and lyric based, following the quiet and moody scene.. Like eg. character confessing her/his love to the another character when the music is reaching its' peak, creating a turning point in the AMV's story. And so on...

Some examples from my own AMVs. (this is not pimpage.. I just know my own work best :3) I tend to leave the lip flap in because of the extra movement it creates. Best example being my latest School Rumble AMV (others interested in what I rant here should check it out for reference.. Adv1sor: STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM IT! It has lip flap..you were warned). It's based on retelling the SR ep22 where they have the kibasen-fight. Music is just something epic I picked for spice.. I chose Duel of the Fates for storytelling purposes. There's major lip flapping going on. Students talking to each other.. on and off "horse"back. What they say is up to the viewer's imagination. That is the whole point. Viewer may decide to follow the original episode's lines, or just go with the flow with his/her own imagination. The storyline is also altered a little for this reason too. Now if you have seen it, try to imagine the same thing with all the lip flapping removed. I personally think that that would suck (even more). It's either the people don't see this, they are unable to use their imagination, they are spoiled/ruined by lip sync AMVs or I just plainly fail at AMVing.
Other good example is my Otaku Paradise AMV. Most of what is just said also applies to this one. In Otaku Paradise there's one very long scene with maids in the courtyard are listening one of the maids telling a story while Genshiken clips are crossimaged behind her. It's one of my favourite scenes in that AMV, and it's also the one people complain about most. Makes me go "eh" :? I admit that Otaku Paradise has few lip flaps that I should have left out and they bother even me a bit. Like the scene where Tarou is in hid bed. But then again OP isn't my best AMV ;)
So.. There is also times when I DO remove the lip flap. Yes, there are occasions when even I feel the lip flap shouldn't be there. For example something like what's mentioned before in this thread.. "zooming into character's eyes". Problem with these edits is that when they are not visible, they aren't appreciated. It's very rare that the AMV-viewer notices that "hey.. I thought that in this scene the character talked.. wow, he removed the lip flap". I actually do a lot of editing and finetuning in my AMVs. I even alter the images a lot sometimes. There are times when I have done so and I get opinion like "I didn't see any effects so I didn't give any score in that". This is what makes me feel really good =^_^=

Adv1sor.. the long story short:
Lip flap as a problem is case sensitive. While there are bad lip flap AMVs out there, lip flap as itself is not a problem. It's inside your head.. deal with it or stop whining about to completely stop doing it. Beauty of this .org is that you may dislike or like AMVs as you choose and then delete the ones you didn't like.
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Postby devilmaykickass » Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:40 am

If it only last for like a second, I don't see it as a big deal...it's when the scene is sitting there...and sitting there...and sitting there...and the character's mouth is flapping away the whole time. It drives me even more crazy when there's a ton of mouth flapping and then when you go to give an opinion the person puts that there's lip syncing...which then makes me wonder "Are they trying to call mouth flappage lip sync? Or is there actually some really bad lip syncing in there with it?", which makes it to where I'm not sure whether to select "N/A" or give them a 1 for lip sync.

I've always tried to avoid it though, because it is annoying and just doesn't look right at all. Even in my last video there was a scene where the guy was talking, but I wanted the scene, so I went through and edited out the mouth movement...it's really not that difficult and anyone can do it (as Arigatomina has proven, seeing as she uses WMM2) so there's no excuse.

And when there's no excuse, it sickens me.
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Postby Adv1sor » Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:36 am

I agree that, in some cases, lip flap may help the AMV. But I suggest that those are few and far between.

A little lip flap is Ok. A LITTLE!

Lip flap when the character is moving is usually Ok. If the character is yelling out in pain, and this fits the music at the time, then of course you expect to see their mouth moving.

Of course there are exceptions to every rule. But it seems to me that more and more of the new AMVs including needless and distracting lip flap.
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Postby bum » Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:45 am

I used lip flap for all 7 or so seconds of my 7 rights amv. Then again I spent 5 minutes on it, half of which was remembering how to do a few things in combustion.
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Postby staces » Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:23 am

I mostly see it as a problem when people mix lip synching with lip flapping. The lip synch can be like totally perfect, then there'll be random scenes of flapping and it's like "auurrrrrrggggh!" ><

But for the most part I'm against lip flapping in gerneral. I'm okay with like characters screaming and stuff (because it's emotional and not distracting), but unless the lyrics mention talking I really don't like the flap.
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Postby Kusoyaro » Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:26 am

Lip flap doesn't bother me so much. What does bother me is when someone obviously doesn't know what to do with a particular section of the song, and just has a character sitting there lip synching it for no reason other than to fill up space.
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Postby BishounenStalker » Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:50 am

Am I the only one who isn't bothered by lip-flap at all if the actual timing is really, really good?
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Postby celibi87 » Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:58 am

BishounenStalker wrote:Am I the only one who isn't bothered by lip-flap at all if the actual timing is really, really good?

ummmm i think if its really realy good then yeah im not bothered by it.
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Postby Castor Troy » Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:19 pm

Kusoyaro wrote:Lip flap doesn't bother me so much. What does bother me is when someone obviously doesn't know what to do with a particular section of the song, and just has a character sitting there lip synching it for no reason other than to fill up space.


That's how I filled in time for my old videos. :P
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Postby Rozard » Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:00 pm

Castor Troy wrote:
Kusoyaro wrote:Lip flap doesn't bother me so much. What does bother me is when someone obviously doesn't know what to do with a particular section of the song, and just has a character sitting there lip synching it for no reason other than to fill up space.


That's how I filled in time for my old videos. :P

x2 :P That, and subtle movements
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Postby x_rex30 » Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:14 pm

Kusoyaro wrote:Lip flap doesn't bother me so much. What does bother me is when someone obviously doesn't know what to do with a particular section of the song, and just has a character sitting there lip synching it for no reason other than to fill up space.
x2, and when the video gets a lot of people raving about the lip synch when it's lip synching to easy to lip sync scenes with basic mouth movements(like 2 or 3 frames). And when non of the scenes match either it's even more odd to me when people start thinking the video is the shit because the lip synch is right on. :?
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