Oversynching: Is it possible?

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Oversynching: Is it possible?

Postby inthesto » Sun Jul 17, 2005 10:10 pm

Rather than write a bulky paragraph to depict my exact meaning in relation to how it stands with the video I'm am currently editing, I'll just pose a quick topic question and retire for the night to see what discussion gets generated:

Is it possible for an AMV to action/lyric/beat/whatever synch to the point where it detracts from the video?

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to read these printed words about some kid who has a lightning bolt scar on his forehead.
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Postby Castor Troy » Sun Jul 17, 2005 10:14 pm

I've seen a few videos like that..... won't mention names.
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Postby Beowulf » Sun Jul 17, 2005 10:46 pm

It is absolutely possible. Thats pretty much the only definitive statment that can be made about the subject however, because everything else is depends on about a bajillion variables.

Tsukin's "Trigun/Hellsing X" would be a good example of over synching but over synching is the entire theme of the video, so it works perfectly. Most of Tsukin's work is like that and his vidoes rock, so there you go.

In my opinion, beat hits should be a combination of the following:

1. The foundation of your video. See: Fluxmeister

2. Not present in the video at all. See: Dannychang

3. Spinkled heavily in place of need. Example: When a new instriment is introduced such as a high-hat during a bridge of a song.

A great example of over synching would be Vic Bond's "Cowboy Bebop 007" video. When your looking at your timeline asking yourself how you can add more beat hits too it, you're over synching.
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Postby Scintilla » Sun Jul 17, 2005 11:30 pm

Yes.
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Postby AquaSky » Sun Jul 17, 2005 11:40 pm

I'd classify oversynching as being past the point where flow and continuity are sacrificed for more extensive beat-sync. Of course, there are videos catered to such a style that end up turning out quite well. In the case of these, however, there is a good video beyond the sync. To the issue at hand - if you're at the point where you feel you need to question whether or not you're overdoing the sync, you may very well be.
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Postby dwchang » Sun Jul 17, 2005 11:45 pm

Beowulf wrote:2. Not present in the video at all. See: Dannychang


Flow > Beats ;)
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Postby FoxJones » Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:14 am

dwchang wrote:Flow > Beats ;)

x2

Syncing with using cuts is usually a good sureshot way to sync, but it's not the best. Example: http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... hp?v=36320



Too many fast cuts and you'll make your AMV harder to follow. Sure it looks damn good (if you pick the right scenes), but in the end it's just a image fest.
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Postby Keeper of Hellfire » Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:36 am

Last week I've watched a vid which was definitly oversynched. Not only that the most of the time the cuts had been that fast that the next clip was on screen before you could spot what's going on in the actual clip. In addition there had been effects applied to really everything in the music, and the most distracted from the onscreen action instead to support it. In the most cases oversynching shows the lack of originality, the lack of an idea that goes farther than "putting random clips to music".
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Postby godix » Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:43 am

Yeah, oversyncing is quite possible. Take a look at <a href="http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members/members_videoinfo.php?v=365">JUMP!</a> for example. The cuts are always synced therefore they're predicatable and boring. The guy went with straight lyric sync through most of it so there's no depth to the video other than 'oh look, he found some scenes where people jump around'. Also as a result of the lyric sync there's no point to most of the scenes. They don't flow together, they don't enhance each other, and in several cases they stop the videos flow dead as you sit there wondering 'what type of moron would use that scene?'. So yes it is possible to sync to much and the video I linked to is the posterchild for that. You might want to study it closely to figure out how not to make your AMV.
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Postby Sammy » Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:52 am

Yeah, oversyncing is quite possible. Take a look at JUMP! for example. The cuts are always synced therefore they're predicatable and boring. The guy went with straight lyric sync through most of it so there's no depth to the video other than 'oh look, he found some scenes where people jump around'. Also as a result of the lyric sync there's no point to most of the scenes. They don't flow together, they don't enhance each other, and in several cases they stop the videos flow dead as you sit there wondering 'what type of moron would use that scene?'. So yes it is possible to sync to much and the video I linked to is the posterchild for that. You might want to study it closely to figure out how not to make your AMV.


Thanks godix. I always thought there was something rotten about that video. I'm glad you took the time in this thread to point out its flaws.
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Postby godix » Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:21 am

Sammy wrote:Thanks godix. I always thought there was something rotten about that video. I'm glad you took the time in this thread to point out its flaws.

You're quite welcome but really we should be thanking you for all the fine negative examples you've produced over the years.
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Postby Sammy » Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:51 am

godix wrote:
Sammy wrote:Thanks godix. I always thought there was something rotten about that video. I'm glad you took the time in this thread to point out its flaws.

You're quite welcome but really we should be thanking you for all the fine negative examples you've produced over the years.


:( Excuse me, I have something in my eye...
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Postby jasper-isis » Mon Jul 18, 2005 8:08 am

I think the problem comes from the misconception that beats are the only things you can synch to in music when in fact you have tons of other elements like:

jasper-isis wrote:- glissandos
- dynamics
- repeating patterns, especially ones that get gradually higher or lower
- legato vs. staccato notes
- any high-pitched "pings," since those are usually more noticeable than notes from the lower extreme.
- changes in tempo
- changes from major to minor or vice versa

downwithpants wrote:specific musical or sound-specific elements you could synch to:

loudness:
crescendos, diminuendos
accented notes
pauses (of silence) (example: The Wasteland)

tempo:
accelerandos, ritards
rubatos, cadenzas

rhythm:
meter, beats, notes
downbeats vs. upbeats
syncopated notes
polyrhythms

timbre:
instrumentation, percussion, synthesized sounds, sound effects, or other sound imitation
instrument production (plucking vs. bowing, dampening, muting)
articulation, amplitude modulation, frequency modulation (vibrato)

pitch contour:
ascending vs. descending, step motion vs. skip motion, neigboring motion vs. passing motion
arpeggios, glissandos, turns, trills

tonal structures:
repeating motives (or riffs), phrases
motive variation, phrase variation
cadences
melody vs. harmony

chords, keys:
dissonant vs. consonant chords, major vs. minor chords
key changes
scale changes

sound processing:
reverb
stereo (binaural disparities)

performance cues:
number of instruments playing
solos
improvisation
note onset asynchronies


... and more. Those were quoted from an instrumentals-specific thread, but I think that a lot of it applies to all music in general.

However, I don't think that most action videos lend themselves to oversynching, simply because beat synch is in the nature of action videos. Now, if you have an action video with solid white flashes on all the beats - well, that's not oversynching, that's just plain uncreative.
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Postby LCY84 » Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:59 am

FoxJones wrote:
dwchang wrote:Flow > Beats ;)

x2

Syncing with using cuts is usually a good sureshot way to sync, but it's not the best. Example: http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... hp?v=36320



Too many fast cuts and you'll make your AMV harder to follow. Sure it looks damn good (if you pick the right scenes), but in the end it's just a image fest.


His direct link does not work :cry:
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Postby x_rex30 » Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:56 pm

LCY84 wrote:
FoxJones wrote:
dwchang wrote:Flow > Beats ;)

x2

Syncing with using cuts is usually a good sureshot way to sync, but it's not the best. Example: http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... hp?v=36320



Too many fast cuts and you'll make your AMV harder to follow. Sure it looks damn good (if you pick the right scenes), but in the end it's just a image fest.


His direct link does not work :cry:

Here you go. :wink:

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