The "Good" AMVs on this website

This forum is for the general discussion of Anime Music Videos.

Postby Knowname » Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:59 pm

OtakuMan22 wrote:
As for the music, it doesn't bother me as much. But it's always the same Linkin Park, Evanescense (sorry folks, but that's NOT real Goth Rock), some psuedo-metal, etc. Looks like some people need to get out of the house more.


There was another thread about this, and I have to agree that AMV makers need a more diverse range of music. I see it as a two-part problem:

1) The AMV maker is very well schooled in anime and decides to make an AMV using an anime that's good, but not often watched or seen. They think it's good, and it is good too. BUT THEY KNOW SQUAT ABOUT MUSIC! They take their MTV (the supposed "source" for good music) stuff and try and put it together to a vid. Since the music is so overdone, the vid comes out bad!

2) The musically talented person may know music history by heart, and can list albums and the songs on them without batting an eye. They want to express their love of music and anime by meshing the two into an AMV. BUT THEY DON'T KNOW MANY ANIME! They take their Cartoon Network and Adult Swim sources, and mesh them together into a vid that can come out good, but because the show is so overdone, it often gets ignored because it's just "another DBZ vid", even if it's the best vid ever with DBZ!


The real skill is to have a knowledge and mastery of both music AND anime to create the really great vids. I remember Kevin Caldwell (considered one of the greatest AMV makers of all time) did the William Tell Overture to Child's Toy. Child's Toy was not released in the US, so it would have been considered rare at the time, and the music was CLASSICAL MUSIC! Practically NOBODY had used classical music before!

But he put them together, edited them, and it WORKED! It worked so well, that even non-members of the org can watch it because it is considered a PRIME example of good AMV making.


So how to stop the influx of new and bad videos?

1) Be helpful on the forums. Answer people's questions and give advice. As long as your nice, some people will actually listen and you'll walk away feeling happy that you helped someone.

2) Leave an opinion for a vid, ESPECIALLY if it has less than 10 opinions. Even if the vid is bad, constructive crticism helps. You might get a reply back from the AMV creator thanking you for your criticism and promises to make a better vid next time, or re-do the vid they made (always allowed!)

3) Share! Always share your knowledge, your wisdom, advice, and especially links to OTHER sources of information. It will help people out greatly.

I've been here for a while now, and I've seen some people from here and abroad thank me for some of the things I've said. Granted it's not all the time, but when it happens, it gives me a sense of satisfaction for staying here on the boards. Makes it all worthwhile, ya' know?

It has even inspired me to try and publish in a weblog or through an online magazine some of my discoveries and advice so that it can be more widely read and recognized and useful.

You never know who might thank you!

~Otaku-Man


What bugs me is that the better amv makers seem to be stuck on the more mediocre music artists like Frau Frau (or even Weird Al). I mean seriously folks.... THEIR NOT ON THE RADIO FOR A REASON! It's one thing to use a song becase you DO really think it's a great tune, but so many ppl put down pop and rap and mainstream rock before even listening to them?? No idea why... probly because their popular... maybe cuz they've heard the song slaughtered a million times in Jimmey Fallon sketches. NO people! These songs are ACTUALLY good, if you want your vid to be good, why purposeley use a mediocre song?! Not trying to spur a pop revolution but sometimes Micheal Jackson can make good songs you know... I mean seriously... it just seems we disregard the radio or mtv when putting it down! In an unbiased world it wouldn't be that way you see.
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Postby SuperFusion » Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:05 pm

i like NSync's "Pop" song :oops:
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Postby Scintilla » Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:11 pm

Knowname wrote:What bugs me is that the better amv makers seem to be stuck on the more mediocre music artists like Frau Frau (or even Weird Al).

That, sir, is a matter of taste. And stuck on Frou Frou? How many Frou Frou videos are there out there anyway?

Knowname wrote:I mean seriously folks.... THEIR NOT ON THE RADIO FOR A REASON! It's one thing to use a song becase you DO really think it's a great tune, but so many ppl put down pop and rap and mainstream rock before even listening to them??

Do you <i>really</i> think that some people here use the music they do just for the sake of being obscure? And do you <i>really</i> think that people dismiss what's on the radio without actually listening to it first?
Neither of these makes sense to me.

Personally, I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of the videos here use the songs they do because either (1) the creators really DIDN'T think they were "mediocre", or (2) they had really good ideas for the song/anime combo that had nothing to do with how good the songs were.
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Postby dokool » Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:13 pm

Knowname wrote:What bugs me is that the better amv makers seem to be stuck on the more mediocre music artists like Frau Frau (or even Weird Al). I mean seriously folks.... THEIR NOT ON THE RADIO FOR A REASON!


Considering that the majority of radio is owned by one corporation (Clear Channel), what plays on the radio is in no way indicative of what's actually good.

What if Frou Frou got airplay on a lot of college stations (which it probably did)? Does that make it better or worse than the latest pop-punk-rock band getting airplay on the regional Top 40 station? I listen to Industrial, and the only time I've heard it on the radio is when my friend spun at his university's station. Airplay is no indication of actual talent.

And Weird Al is a <i>god</i> compared to what gets played on MTV most of the time.

[Corran: Flames removed]
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oh well

Postby didrox » Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:21 pm

first of off i totaly agree with this guy: OtakuMan22. the "GOOD" AMV makers should help the noobs .this way better AMVs will rise from both noobs and "GOOD" AMV makers , due to better competition .

Also as far as popular and un-popular animes goes. Some animes are widespread :DBZ, Pokemon, Yu-gi-oh, etc . these animes people heard of so naturaly there will be more AMVs consisting of those anime . Now , rare unheard-of animes like those mentioned by Earl6282 and other members , i never heard of. and i bet very few members heard about it as well . So its simple to see the real problem , not many people go searching for something when they dont know what their looking far (as far as AMVs go at least) so if you want to see those animes made into AMVs you got to advertise for them yourself. like someone said the more popular the anime the more AMVs on them.

And as far as a AMV beeing crappy or something . this chick J. ALANA or something like that broght up a good point in one of our conversation . even if you know its crappy there is at least one person out there who will think its awesome ( law of probability )

Im sure that as soon as CN or some other popular station starts airing some unread-of-anime more AMVs will arise from those animes. like when MTV aired that show on the android with the litle guy in the future with the personality and his nake was like j 90210 or something like that. even i wanted to do an AMV on that.

Also some vids are very good . they are just unhead of . like : harvey danger- flagpole sita (or something like that) on bebop . and blink 182- reckless abandon and so on.how many members actualy stumble to a awesome vid and go around making posts about it ? if the vid was unbelivable-breathtaking-life-chaging im sure it would get noticed the problem is that i find it imposible for a vid to be that way . its like looking to lose wight on the big mac diet .

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Postby OtakuMan22 » Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:29 pm

You know, I don't know how many people here get MTV2, but if you ever come across a show called "Video Mods", watch it!

Not because it's a good video, but because there are some truly GOD AWFUL attempts to mesh video games with music. What kind? The mediocre popular music.

From what I gather from Knowname, you got TWO kinds of popular music:

1) The music that's popular, but sucks and is ridiculed on multiple sketches or "Sold out" in one way or another. (I still have issues with Evanescense that I can't put my finger on).

2) The music that's popular because it's GOOD!

Now while video mods seems to use nothing but popular songs, they DO however mix in GOOD songs along with the mediocre ones.

Franz Ferdinand's "Take Me Out", while sold out to PSP for use in their commercials, is STILL a good song. There's also Black Eyes Peas and their "Let's Get It Started" which sold out to the NBA Finals 2004.

Now in video mods, they took these songs, which are good STAND ALONG songs, and made videos for them using video game characters. The funny thing is that the companies that made the games helped make these "professional" grade music videos, but I can't help but get over the feeling that this IS THE EXACT SAME THING THAT AMV MAKERS DO, BUT WITH GAMES!

Okay, maybe not exactly since they can actually TAILOR the graphical footage to the song, but you can CLEARLY see that some of these videos are boring as HELL! The direction is just terrible in some of these, or the song just DOES NOT match the game, or other things which are THE SAME PROBLEMS AMV MAKERS ARE FACED WITH!

Now I cited "Take Me Out" and "Let's Get It Started" for two main reasons. They, for the most part, are GOOD VGMV's (we have a new type of video, people! :) ).

Seeing Anakin Skywalker singing "Take Me Out" with an army of dancing Storm Troopers is just fun to watch and fits the groove, and even edited the vidoe so it had a theme that Anakin was "Taken Out" by Darth Vader. Before that vid was made, there was another one for "Let's Get It Started" which featured several game characters moving around and singing, but here's the thing:

The choreography, mood, and theme made for a good FUN video! It was VERY well done! I watch it again just when I feel like getting funky!


Now some of you may think that these songs are mediocre. Black Eyed Peas and Franz Ferdinand's songs may seem mediocre to you. But the blend of editing techniques and DIRECTION made for some kick-ass vids!

The AMV maker has an even GREATER challenge as a director to take already made, NOT customized footage, and put it together in a video.

You CAN in fact take a mediocre song and put it to good use using good editing, but as Knowname says, it's even better if you use a GOOD song! Believe me, I would love to see some AMVs with the Grateful Dead, Janis Joplin (not a single one of her songs has been used in an AMV! Not ONE! Not even Bobby McGee!), The Doors, The Who, Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin... oh man does the list go on. Hey, even some Rush and songs by Styx OTHER than Mr. Robotto! (Why has no one used "Blue Collar Man" before?!)

There's lots of good music out there, and most of the current stuff is mediocre at best.

Weird Al is good, but you can only use his stuff so many times and still be original. The best one I've seen so far is TECHNICALLY an AMV, but not entirely. Watch it and you'll see what I mean:

http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... hp?v=50439

I nearly peed myself when I found this vid because this has been one of my favorite Weird Al songs of all time, and it's VERY under appreciated!

So we got the music and the anime. You need to have:

1) A good video idea
2) A good song that is directly related with the idea.
3) An anime based from the song AND the idea, that works well
4) A good eye for editing

That's about it for my rant now, but one more thing I wanted to chip in:

OtakuMan22 wrote:

I'm trying to say that by making it public, you are inviting anyone and everyone to criticize and comment on your vid, whether it be good or bad. If you really don't care what people say, then why put it out there where people will know it exists and most likely comment on it?


Sharing.


Okay, I'll buy that, but if you're going to do that, USE A FREAKING FILE SHARING PROGRAM! I REALLY don't want to see people using the org to submit AMVs that they only want 2 or 3 people to watch seriously. For CRIPES SAKE, EVERYONE is going to see your video and it will take up space because you didn't care if it was really good, and only wanted your friends to see it. If that's the case, DON'T MAKE IT PUBLIC!

GEEZ!

I mean it too, if you just want 2 to 3 close friends to see the video, JUST SEND IT TO THEM! Even AIM or Yahoo Messenger can do that for you!

If you really want to make good vids and are working hard at it, AND are willing to put up with ANY criticism that comes your way, then the org is for you. But if you're just going around doing the same ole thing on your own just to brag to your friends, DON'T PUT IT HERE!

Man, the thought just makes me so ANGRY! I better go watch Nature Bears From Hell now.

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Postby Corran » Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:37 pm

You don't own the server so why do you even care how much space a video takes up. If it were an issue it would have been addressed already by the org's owner, Phade.
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Postby Knowname » Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:37 pm

trythil wrote:If your thinking is confined to "publicity = judgment", and if you think that creators need to listen to that judgment, then yes, it is rather strange.

However this site can be viewed as simply offering a convenient way to share videos. People can offer feedback, and people can choose to listen to that feedback or reject it.

There's no contradictions in the logic when you view it that way.


I just hate when ppl get bitchy about it like typical reply from mega-bitch:
'I make AMVs for ME! If I wanted your opinion I would have asked for it!!'

Seriously, I got that reply before (beware of Resk). Truley, because of the layout, if it is on here you ARE asking for opinions. As I told Resk, if you don't want opinions, dont announce it! You still might get opinions though, announcing it is a sure sign that 'I'm making this for you.' Maybe we should have an option to omit opinions from certain videos... not just 1 opinion that pisses you off I mean the entire portion ;p.

Some ppl's logic drive just... doesn't work.
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Postby trythil » Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:38 pm

Okay, I'll buy that, but if you're going to do that, USE A FREAKING FILE SHARING PROGRAM! I REALLY don't want to see people using the org to submit AMVs that they only want 2 or 3 people to watch seriously. For CRIPES SAKE, EVERYONE is going to see your video and it will take up space because you didn't care if it was really good, and only wanted your friends to see it. If that's the case, DON'T MAKE IT PUBLIC!


Why not?

Are you concerned that my piddling 30-40 MB videos are that much of a cancer upon Nago and Kero's terabyte-quantity storage space? That all those downloads I'm getting is slowly draining away at the power grid and causing wear and tear on all those poor optical cables? That I'm accelerating the usage of the 2 billion or so unique positive integer identifiers that we have to identify all this? That I'm stealing bits and therefore costing the .org money in royalties to Microsoft? Are you just angry at this heretical mindset I'm advancing? What is it?

If you really want to make good vids and are working hard at it, AND are willing to put up with ANY criticism that comes your way, then the org is for you.


First: I think you need to read my posts. You continuously insinuate things about me that I never wrote, like being unable to put up with criticism. I can handle it just fine; I just choose to ignore most of it.

Second: Who designated you the arbiter of this site? Let's look at the site statement again:

The main page wrote:Welcome to AnimeMusicVideos.org. This community is dedicated to the creation, discussion, and general enjoyment of fan-made anime music videos.


Hmm. I don't see "you'd better seriously take all criticism and judgment or get out" in there anywhere. Can you tell me where it says that?
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Postby trythil » Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:40 pm

Knowname wrote:
I just hate when ppl get bitchy about it like typical reply from mega-bitch:
'I make AMVs for ME! If I wanted your opinion I would have asked for it!!'

Seriously, I got that reply before (beware of Resk). Truley, because of the layout, if it is on here you ARE asking for opinions. As I told Resk, if you don't want opinions, dont announce it! You still might get opinions though, announcing it is a sure sign that 'I'm making this for you.' Maybe we should have an option to omit opinions from certain videos... not just 1 opinion that pisses you off I mean the entire portion ;p.

Some ppl's logic drive just... doesn't work.


You did not read my post. In fact, I don't think ANYONE who has attempted to rebuke me has read my original post.

Yes, I might get opinions. In fact, I've received 95 such opinions. I know this and I accept this.

That doesn't mean that I have to care about them.
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Postby dj_ultima_the_great » Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:43 pm

OtakuMan22 wrote:1) The AMV maker is very well schooled in anime and decides to make an AMV using an anime that's good, but not often watched or seen. They think it's good, and it is good too. BUT THEY KNOW SQUAT ABOUT MUSIC! They take their MTV (the supposed "source" for good music) stuff and try and put it together to a vid. Since the music is so overdone, the vid comes out bad!

2) The musically talented person may know music history by heart, and can list albums and the songs on them without batting an eye. They want to express their love of music and anime by meshing the two into an AMV. BUT THEY DON'T KNOW MANY ANIME! They take their Cartoon Network and Adult Swim sources, and mesh them together into a vid that can come out good, but because the show is so overdone, it often gets ignored because it's just "another DBZ vid", even if it's the best vid ever with DBZ!


You know, you shouldn't stereotype people that way. Personally, I never listen to the radio, as I don't receive the signal well in my room. I also don't watch TV. It bores me. So, I have a diverse range of music AND a diverse range of anime in my repetoire, because I fall from the mainstream viewing. Sure, I've seen Eva and liked it. Sure, I've heard Linkin Park and liked it. Does that mean I went and made a video combining the two? No. Okay, so I've made a lot of Final Fantasy videos. Why? I don't know how to rip anime or PS2 games yet. Nor do I have a DVD drive to do it. That's why. If I had my way, I'd be making dozens of Silent Hill 1-4 videos. Believe me, when I get that drive, the first thing I'm doing is raiding the guides to figure out how to rip DVDs and PS2 games. Then, I'm making dozens of SH videos. And Devil May Cry videos. And Fatal Frame videos. And a GOOD Chobits video.

There are a lot of other people who are the same way in general. Yes, there are those stereotypes out there, but it's not everyone. So, you should have said that "Some AMV makers are well-versed in anime, but know squat about music, and some musically talented people know music history by heart, but know squat about anime."

Those are my thoughts. I just really get annoyed when people generalize and stereotype. Not everyone is like that. I'm certainly not.


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Postby OtakuMan22 » Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:00 pm

I can give you one VERY good reason why to use a file sharing program over the org when you only want to share your vid with 2 to 3 other people:

SEARCHING

If I want to try and find a video that has a specific song, or anime, or specific genre of vid, then when I do the search, I come across a flood of REALLY bad videos. Since there are no opinions attached to them, I take my curiosity in, watch the vid...

...and get sorely dissapointed. At that point, I'll probably leave a comment/opinion and move on to continue my search for a good video. I find another link, no opinions (unannounced most likely), and go in to check it out.

Once again, I am annoyed and dismayed that the video did not do anything for me. It just seemed like random clips to random music and was just... boring! I try to see what the author was going for, and if I can see the mistakes, I point them out with suggestions. I've actually gotten some good feedback and thanks from people who appreciated my comments! :)

But, Trythil, you are promoting the use of an org as a public sharing space for videos of sub-par quality to be shared with 2 or 3 people who are the ONLY people you care about seeing your vids. You may have a point that your video is inconsequential in the amount of space of the org...

...but what if it's not just you? What if ALL the fanboys and fangirls did this! Then not only would the space in the org fill up, but there would also be a wide number of more bad videos to sift through.

I ran into this problem with Fruits Baskets videos. Too many fan made videos that were mainly intended for friends, and not for general consumption, yet there are over 200 of them on the org! And that's not counting the ones that can't be downloaded! No, that's 200 LOCAL videos, and so far I've only found one, maybe two, good comedy videos.

Yes, COMEDY! I don't even want to know what the number for them is under drama!

Now let's see what DJ Ultima wrote... weird how posts magically appear between the time you enter the thread, and the time you click the "Reply button:

"Some AMV makers are well-versed in anime, but know squat about music, and some musically talented people know music history by heart, but know squat about anime."


My bad! I swear, it's for things like this that I wish there was an Edit button. But yeah, I agree that there are some of each, and that not everyone is like that. If it was true that people only fit in those two catagories, then there would not be unique videos like "Caffeine Enconium". Mistake in my wording... my bad!


But here's a serious question about publishing your videos:

If you only really want your video to be seen by 2 or 3 people, what is the best way going about doing it? Using a file sharing program, or even the file transfer setup of AIM and Yahoo Messenger, or posting to the org without making an announcement?

I think that using a file sharing program is the best choice there, because if you really don't want comments or opinions, then the org REALLY is not the place to put them. It may not take up much space, but it still takes up space, and it creates one more video to search through when trying to find diamonds in the rough. If it's a good video in your opinion and you want to opinions of others, even if the video isn't good, then please post to the org for the feedback if nothing else! It'll help you make changes to future vids and give you incentive to increase your skill.

And what's more of an honor than an award for your vid. You are right that awards are not the largest motivation for vid creation, but it is a good motivator for GOOD vid creation!

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Postby Knowname » Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:05 pm

Scintilla wrote:That, sir, is a matter of taste. And stuck on Frou Frou? How many Frou Frou videos are there out there anyway?


hmm... like.. the last 3 I d/led from Koop??? a few more... AND IT'S SPREADING!!

Scintilla wrote:Do you <i>really</i> think that some people here use the music they do just for the sake of being obscure? And do you <i>really</i> think that people dismiss what's on the radio without actually listening to it first?
Neither of these makes sense to me.

do you really think I don't?? Cuz if you do beleive I don't when I just said I do, then we have a problem lol.

But if you had read on maybe you would have seen that a situation may happen where you download 100 quality videos from known creators and a good 80% or more of those will be from who-knows who from unavailable cd in Abhudhabi.

Again, I can see the 'they like it' arguement... but, really, is it possible that 80%+ of all ppl in here are such dorks that they can't make a single video to a popular song?? I'd rather beleive the former but you can think what you like.

Scintilla wrote:Personally, I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of the videos here use the songs they do because either (1) the creators really DIDN'T think they were "mediocre", or (2) they had really good ideas for the song/anime combo that had nothing to do with how good the songs were.


All fine and good for the occasional breather... but SERIOUSLY!!!

trythil wrote:Yes, I might get opinions. In fact, I've received 95 such opinions. I know this and I accept this.


your not nearly as bad as the offending few, in fact I wasn't even aware of your allegiences in this 'made for me' discussion.

trythil wrote:Are you concerned that my piddling 30-40 MB videos are that much of a cancer upon Nago and Kero's terabyte-quantity storage space? That all those downloads I'm getting is slowly draining away at the power grid and causing wear and tear on all those poor optical cables?


gosh I hope not... I hope nobody has to resort to file-sharing any more, I enjoy many videos from the offending few and you, I just want to understand how somebody could be so SELFISH and uninterested in comments toward how they can improve.
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Postby trythil » Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:09 pm

OtakuMan22 wrote:I can give you one VERY good reason why to use a file sharing program over the org when you only want to share your vid with 2 to 3 other people:

SEARCHING


Then suggest some improvements to the search tool. Or try the suggestion query and/or suggest some improvements to that.

You are a user, and are expected to act as such.

But, Trythil, you are promoting the use of an org as a public sharing space for videos of sub-par quality to be shared with 2 or 3 people who are the ONLY people you care about seeing your vids. You may have a point that your video is inconsequential in the amount of space of the org...

...but what if it's not just you? What if ALL the fanboys and fangirls did this! Then not only would the space in the org fill up, but there would also be a wide number of more bad videos to sift through.


Again, I ask...

So what?

It's not your place nor mine to decide what is "worthy" and what is "unworthy". Perhaps Phade, AbsoluteDestiny, Vlad, dokidoki, or derobert can make those rules if they wish.

As of right now, though, they do not exist. Therefore, yes, I will support people's privileges to upload, so long as they do not break any of the aforementioned rules. "Uploading bad videos" is not an infraction of any rule.

I ran into this problem with Fruits Baskets videos. Too many fan made videos that were mainly intended for friends, and not for general consumption, yet there are over 200 of them on the org! And that's not counting the ones that can't be downloaded! No, that's 200 LOCAL videos, and so far I've only found one, maybe two, good comedy videos.


Again, "good" in your highly subjective view.


If you only really want your video to be seen by 2 or 3 people, what is the best way going about doing it?


Whatever you have access to and can use within the boundaries of whatever rules exist.
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