Seisiga-MAD: Japan enters AMV's

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Postby trythil » Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:57 pm

Scintilla wrote:
angelx03 wrote:You know, not all MADs can be all effects. Hell, Chack'n's videos are considered MADs, and all this person used is straight cuts and fades (almost makes some other "straight cuts and fades" videos look like a joke). :roll:

And that's why his are Douga-MADs, as opposed to Seishiga-MADs... right?


動画 「どうが」, "douga" : moving image (動 = movement; motion, 画 = image)
静止画 「せいしが」, "seishiga" : still image (静止 = stillness)
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Postby Beowulf » Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:18 pm

I can very much appreciate the astounding technical achievement of a good MAD. But thats all it is.

Is anyone really moved by J-POP? To me, that shit is the worst noise humanity has ever created. I really can't articulate into words how awful I think japanese techno is. Everyone has their own tastes, and everyone has different opinions but this is just beyond that. How can you enjoy this music? HOW can ANYONE? It really just baffles me. I'm not just trying to create a debate either, it is truely beyond me how people can enjoy this garbage. It has no soul, you cant understand the lyrics, the tempo's are about 300% faster than your heart beats, the voices could break glass, and its not played by people.

Whats a shame is that the editors obviously have a SUPREME level of technical mastery. The stuff they create is just sometimes out of this world on a creative level. But that doesn't negate the fact that it is complete and utter trash.
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Postby Zarxrax » Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:23 pm

Beowulf wrote:Whats a shame is that the editors obviously have a SUPREME level of technical mastery. The stuff they create is just sometimes out of this world on a creative level. But that doesn't negate the fact that it is complete and utter trash.


By god, you just converted me :shock:
Leave it to Beowulf to set the record straight!
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Postby SnhKnives » Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:33 pm

Zarxrax wrote:
JCD wrote:I have to agree with Zarxrax, though I myself don't think the gap is that wide. I've enjoyed AMVs as much as MADs:
MADs had a huge gap technical editing and degsin compared to AMVs, but in my opinion that gap is almost closed by now. Some recent AMVs had a really impressive amount on technical creativity and it's definitely going into the right direction in my opinion :)
I hope we won't make a difference in the future anymore and refer to both as AMVs :P


While AMVs are certainly getting more and more technical, I'm afraid the gap really isn't closing that much. The types of MADs that blew me away years ago are quite elementry by todays standards. The most technical amvs of today are probably about on the level of MADs from about 3 years ago. The MADs of today often have better motion graphics than stuff than I see on tv commercials.
A few weeks ago there was a big seishiga mad contest. I think about 20 videos were involved. I wouldn't hesitate for even a moment to say that at least half of them utilized better effects and motion graphics than ANY AMV that was released in the past year.

Of course, it's all in the eye of the beholder...


I think that is a bit of an exxageration. I dont think MADs and AMVs are too far apart. The effects are just different but perhaps not more difficult or complex.

I have seen MADs from 2001, and they equal to AMVs made in 2001.

AMVs just took a different direction as far the types of effects used in videos. MAD effects arent necessarily practical or useful for the stories/themes/etc behind many AMVs.
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Postby Scintilla » Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:35 pm

Beowulf wrote:Is anyone really moved by J-POP? To me, that shit is the worst noise humanity has ever created. I really can't articulate into words how awful I think japanese techno is. Everyone has their own tastes, and everyone has different opinions but this is just beyond that. How can you enjoy this music? HOW can ANYONE?

It's FUN, dammit! :x

And oftentimes it just <i>exudes</i> happy (e.g., "You're My Treasure" by I've [Kotoko, Aki, and Rimikka]), and other times it just exudes cute (e.g., "Ren'ai CHU! (ParaPara Mix 2)" by I've [Kotoko and Aki]).

And I like that. I do. I like that. <s>It almost makes me sorry that I have to kill you.</s>
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Postby pen-pen2002 » Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:46 pm

Zarxrax wrote:as far as creativity goes, [MADs] are simply UNMATCHED.
...
As far as creativity, I would like to see the critics even TRY to make decent still-picture MAD.
...
I think this says great deals about the level of creativity required to even make a still picture mad, when seasoned AMV creators can't even make a SINGLE ONE thats decent.


No offence intended, but that is bullshit.

I realize you are trying to argue against a stereotype here, but your focus on creativity is way off the mark.

That's like showing a group of young artists a Michelangelo and saying "bet you can't do this, you know why? Because you're not creative enough. Not only is it false, but it is downright insulting.

Your whole argument is that you tried to make a MAD and couldn't get any ideas. And from that you conclude (essentially) that every single editor in Japan is more creative than every single editor here. As if there could be no other reason that even seasoned AMV editors are hard pressed to produce a decent MAD. It's preposterous.

I can't make a MAD. Is it because I'm not creative enough? HELL NO!

Sorry about the rant, you have every right to defend the creativity of something you enjoy, but please do not do so to the detriment of other forms of expression.

Again, no offence intended, you just got me a bit riled up.
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Postby Zarxrax » Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:50 pm

SnhKnives wrote:I have seen MADs from 2001, and they equal to AMVs made in 2001.


You trying to say that the effects being used in amvs back then could stand up to the likes of Azurewind, Conclude Another Style, Eternal DreamS2, or Winter Planet? (not sure those are all from 2001, but they are somewhere around there)

Unless I'm mistaken, the most complicated thing we had back then was something like Tainted Donuts, which was basically just some basic masking.
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Postby Zarxrax » Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:54 pm

pen-pen2002 wrote:
Zarxrax wrote:as far as creativity goes, [MADs] are simply UNMATCHED.
...
As far as creativity, I would like to see the critics even TRY to make decent still-picture MAD.
...
I think this says great deals about the level of creativity required to even make a still picture mad, when seasoned AMV creators can't even make a SINGLE ONE thats decent.


No offence intended, but that is bullshit.

I realize you are trying to argue against a stereotype here, but your focus on creativity is way off the mark.

That's like showing a group of young artists a Michelangelo and saying "bet you can't do this, you know why? Because you're not creative enough. Not only is it false, but it is downright insulting.

Your whole argument is that you tried to make a MAD and couldn't get any ideas. And from that you conclude (essentially) that every single editor in Japan is more creative than every single editor here. As if there could be no other reason that even seasoned AMV editors are hard pressed to produce a decent MAD. It's preposterous.

I can't make a MAD. Is it because I'm not creative enough? HELL NO!

Sorry about the rant, you have every right to defend the creativity of something you enjoy, but please do not do so to the detriment of other forms of expression.

Again, no offence intended, you just got me a bit riled up.


Sorry, didn't mean for it to come out that way. I don't particularly mean that AMV editors lack creativity (as there is certainly some extraordinarily creative amvs out there), just that for the most part, they aren't confortable with the type of editing thats required for a video based on still images. It's not because we are stupid or anything, we just haven't learned how to do it yet (for the most part). Motion graphics are probably my favorite aspect of editing. They make my giddy. They are almost compeltely absent from AMVs though.
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Postby SnhKnives » Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:01 pm

Zarxrax wrote:
SnhKnives wrote:I have seen MADs from 2001, and they equal to AMVs made in 2001.


You trying to say that the effects being used in amvs back then could stand up to the likes of Azurewind, Conclude Another Style, Eternal DreamS2, or Winter Planet? (not sure those are all from 2001, but they are somewhere around there)

Unless I'm mistaken, the most complicated thing we had back then was something like Tainted Donuts, which was basically just some basic masking.


All the MADs Pianos ha showed me from 2001 (he specifcally said the year in which it was made) had no better effects than believe, and alot of the other popular videos from that time.
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Postby SuperFusion » Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:21 pm

A MAD has anime, music, and is a video. It is an anime music video, but differently edited. Don't know why they're called MADs. =|
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Postby Flint the Dwarf » Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:45 pm

Zarxrax wrote:Of course, it's all in the eye of the beholder...

It doesn't sound like you believe that.

So we AMVers (I don't mean to insult you by including you) haven't made decent still-image music videos. Well, I'm betting the majority of AMVers hadn't seen a still-image music video (or MAD) before they started editing. And how do we come up with the idea of making an AMV? I'd say at least 99% of AMVers had seen a music video prior to their genesis in editing. That means they either saw a music video on MTV or VH1 or the like, or they saw AMVs from around the web. In addition, they also very likely had seen anime and listened to some variety of music common in America (aka not jpop; that would come later). Considering this, what would you expect? I'm betting that 99% of these editors, upon conceiving their first AMV idea, would produce something that was a collection of everything that had influenced them so far. Then, those that continued in the hobby would proceed making similar videos but would hone them until they were perfection in their eyes. Is this not creativity? Each of these editors (the ones that don't plagiarize) are in the act of creating something new and different to them, regardless of whether or not *you* like their videos. And then most of them try to improve on that type of video, while a few try to create something entirely different but might not succeed to your expectations because they are past the influential absorption ages of 8-14 or whatever.

As for the Japanese, they have jpop and manga and doujinshi, and an entirely different cultural upbringing in general. First off, jpop (I'm sure you've noticed) is usually very upbeat, fast, and often wacky. Secondly, manga and doujinshi (I hope you've noticed this) are composed of *gasp* still images! It only stands to reason that at least one person in the history of Japan would take it upon himself to use the creativity and story of a manga/doujinshi and add music. It probably looked rather dull. But then I bet some other people saw that video and thought, "Hey, this is kind of dull, let's make it flashier." And their cultural influences spawned these still-image MADs that some people are so fond of.

Summary: we're in different playing fields. Creativity is always influenced by something and, whether you like it or not, our influences do not make our creations any less creative. Please stop playing to this idea that the Japanese are so immensely talented and exceed American standards in nearly every instance.

Disclaimer - I never said I thought MADs were uncreative; just that I thought they lacked style.
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Postby Flint the Dwarf » Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:52 pm

Also, Zarxrax, that wasn't entirely aimed at you. I know you clarified what you meant earlier.
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Postby Zarxrax » Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:57 pm

Flint the Dwarf wrote:Stuff


I agree 100% with what you said. I was never trying to put down amv creators because they don't make the same kind of stuff, I only mean to praise the mad creators for creating things which are so stunning and entertaining and influential to me.

In my eyes, its like the MAD creators are a PS2, and amv creators are an NES. Theres a lot of damn good NES games. There's also a lot of good PS2 games. PS2 games have a huge advantage over NES games in terms of graphics and such, but NES games work better for the VG3 project :|
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Postby Beowulf » Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:58 pm

Its true. Whenever a video I have doesn't work, I just clean it with a toothbrush and viola.
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Postby SSJVegita0609 » Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:18 pm

I've yet to find a MAD I've ever actually enjoyed. I admire some of their technical prowess, however, I subjectively I can't stand watching them more than once.
The best effects are the ones you don't notice.
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