SACD and Music videos

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SACD and Music videos

Postby Paul Kievits » Thu Aug 22, 2002 3:50 pm

Perhaps some (probably most) of you have heard of the new audio format that's going to whoop the CD's ass in the near future. SACD. I was curious of how music videos were going to adapt to this new phenomenon, since the sound is much sharper files will probably get bigger as not to have too much loss I guess. The most intresting thing will probably be the multi-channeling, instead of two output channels you get five. This will probably make timing a lot harder but could ultimatley add to the videos quality.

So what do you think, when and on what scale and how will AMV's adjust to SACD?
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Postby Vazor » Thu Aug 22, 2002 3:52 pm

Any idea what SACD stands for (it's probably so obvious I'll kill myself for not thinking of it, but I wanna know)?
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Postby FurryCurry » Thu Aug 22, 2002 4:12 pm

Super Audio CD.

I really don't think that its going to make much difference for videos encoded for online distribution, and those are pretty much all using some sort of less-than-CD-quality compression, and I doubt that will change much until we all have fiber into our houses.

I question the need for higher than CD quality anyway. Most typical speakers, and most typical people, for that matter, can't really get much benefit, if any, out of even higher fidelity.

Multichannel audio might be a different story, but I'm going to keep my cash instead of spending it on high priced two channel discs and players I doubt I'll really benefit from.
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Postby Vazor » Thu Aug 22, 2002 4:19 pm

*Vazor kills himself
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Postby DJ_Izumi » Fri Aug 23, 2002 5:19 am

Well now, here comes the major problem. SACD uses are much high resolution (sample rate) then CDA. (Compact Disk Audio, the normal CD). CDA uses 44.1khz, DVD uses 48khz, I think SACD uses 96khz? Anyway, most of our sound cards can't play at sample rate higher then 48khz. Besides, you're ears and mind can't tell that a CDA isn't real sound, SACD is just overkill, play a CDA and a SACD on the same speakers, and with the same mix down, you won't notice the difference. Trust me.
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Postby AbsoluteDestiny » Fri Aug 23, 2002 6:00 am

It's a stupid thing to compare because we dont use uncompressed audio.

All our audio goes through a fourier series compression so instead of having samples you have an equation which tries to mimick the pattern of those samples. So it's pointless talking about 96khz audio unless you are using uncompressed - which would be just HUGE and pointless.

As for multichannel audio, that already exists and in a compressed form. Ogg Vorbis supports multichannel as does AC3 and DTS, all of which we can already use if we want to but we don't because our source isn't multichannel, usually.
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Postby DJ_Izumi » Fri Aug 23, 2002 6:02 am

AD is right. At the most SACD will be a pain to rip. :P
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Postby Paul Kievits » Fri Aug 23, 2002 6:48 am

I agree that it has no practical use for internet distribution, compression is everything on the internet.

BUT... what about DVD's which are sold at conventions and actual convention submissions, now there you can use MPEG2 and you don't necessarily have to compress audio. Wouldn't it be intresting for that kind of use?
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Postby DJ_Izumi » Fri Aug 23, 2002 6:53 am

Of course not. DVD's use 48khz audio, and all DVD players have a compliance requirment. If you add something new, the old DVD players won't support the DVD's with some freakish useless audio format. And thus, a great many DVD players would become useless. Actually -all- existing DVD players, excluding those that can play SACD's currently (And proabbly not all of them even) wouldn't be able to play the disks. They're still working on replacing VHS. DVD's standard is sticking around for a few good many years. You have to remember, these are console devices, you can't download new softwear, and you definatly can't give it media with information that the DAC couldn't even play back. It's a very very bad idea to use it DVD's.

Look. 44.1khz PCM audio is JUST FINE, we don't need new stuff, because it's already beyond our human abilities to know the difference in the first place. It's just the comsumer world wanting you to buy a new music CD player.
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Postby Paul Kievits » Fri Aug 23, 2002 7:31 am

Oops my bad. ^_^

Seems like SACD will have no impact on the AMV scene whatsoever for years to come then...
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Postby DJ_Izumi » Fri Aug 23, 2002 7:32 am

Sorry, didn't mean to sound mean. I just think it's silly with all the hype over something that won't be noticably different.

How about they make BIGGER CD's instead? :\
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Postby Paul Kievits » Fri Aug 23, 2002 7:45 am

Nah, I just forgot to read a part about DVD's above, my bad.

And I thought SACD were supposed to be bigger than CD's, correct me if I'm wrong.
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Postby DJ_Izumi » Fri Aug 23, 2002 7:46 am

Dunno.
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Postby Paul Kievits » Fri Aug 23, 2002 8:35 am

"In addition to exceptional sound quality through the DSD system, the SACD format can accommodate more than four times the information of the current CD format"

This is from sonys site, so basically it's 4 times as large. Not that bands will actually put more songs on the cd...
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Postby Dark Kamui » Fri Aug 23, 2002 9:03 am

The only real way to get a KICK out of any multi-channel format is to have at a least a 4.1 sorround system. 4=speakers 1=subwoofer

If you have a decent set of speakers and a nice soundcard like a Soundblaster LIVE! or better you can notice the difference between uncompressed PCM sound and Mp3 sound easily. For example in hardrock or any soundtrack that has a bunch of diffirent instruments each making unique noises you will notice a slight decrease in FINE sound quality depending on the comrpession you use. So far the BEST Mp3 encoder that I've used is L.A.M.E.

I used 128kbps (STEREO) encoding using Radium Franhoufer codec on my End Of AL vid. The 128kbps version pails in comparion to the original 320kbps source mp3 if you listen to them closely enough. In that particular encode I had to use pure stereo instead of joint or whatever because I was getting a rather odd sound popping defect whenever the sound would "pan" from left to right in the Starry Sky Remix.

But anyways getting back to SACD thing... It'll probably have some new "protection" scheme that will take awhile for "evil hackerz" to "hack" so we can have a reliable SACD to WAV/MP3/Whatever ripper.
Even so what will be the use of multichannels anyways? Most people only have stero speakers and sorround headphones retail over $250. (Yes, they EXIST in case you didn't know.)

Personally I can't wait for a new 5-6 ch. Mp3 format of sorts...
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