DON'T RIP-OFF THE AMVs of OTHERS!

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Postby Petro » Sat Aug 17, 2002 1:14 am

SpPANDA wrote:i've still yet to see this video? are there any links i can follow?


Which video do you mean by "this?" if you mean my video, you can get to that through my profile (It's the one named "Dedicated to Sarah") If you mean the one I was bitching about, it's in the Video anouncements under something like "My love hina vid..."

If you mean ErMac's, ask him ^^
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Postby SpPANDA » Sat Aug 17, 2002 1:17 am

my love hina vid... that'll work. i'll check it out and get back to you in a few.
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Postby SpPANDA » Sat Aug 17, 2002 1:29 am

eh.. it was ok.

but seeing the pieces of your vids... made it hard to watch with a straight face...

it was like watching a kitten's throat being slit open and gutted.
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Postby DiemondDagger » Sat Aug 17, 2002 1:31 am

Nice...comparison.... :cry: :shock:
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Postby SpPANDA » Sat Aug 17, 2002 1:36 am

DiemondDagger wrote:Nice...comparison.... :cry: :shock:

serious.. it was bad.
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Postby Petro » Sat Aug 17, 2002 1:53 am

heh I couldn't watch it with a straight face either - but that wasn't because I was laughing :wink:
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Postby punistation » Sat Aug 17, 2002 9:47 am

I don't really mind people using my AMV's as source footage for their own, as long as they're polite enough to ask me.


As a recent fr'instance, some gal e-mailed me to ask if she could use my LAINstation as a source for her own Lain AMV. This was because she wanted to use some Playstation game footage, and as far as she (or I) know, my AMV is the only thing on the Net that shows it. She asked, and I happily obliged.

Point is, an artist uses what's available to 'em. If all's you got is a charcoal stub and some pavement, that's what you got. Not everybody has the luxury of $$$... of having DVD's, a paid-up Streamload account, or Broadband cable to download hundred's of MB's of anime episodes from KaZaa. Ya works' with what ya got. If all you have is one or two kickbum AMV's, that's all you have.


I know this isn't the popular opinion, but I reckon we should help and share with each other, and not start branding an invisible copyright logo on our 'acts of creation'. I know it's empowering to climb onto that tower alongside your mates and cast righteous judgement over the small defiler/copyright infringer/scum, but you're not really scoring points that are worth flaunting.

Don't approve of what they do? Fine. Feel free to mention it to 'em. Just don't go down the road of the cliche internet teen ganging up n' blasting others as best he can on the good ol' anonymous web to compensate for not being able to do the same in the schoolyard. Disaproval doesn't always require righteousness.


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Postby Declan_Vee » Sat Aug 17, 2002 10:26 am

[quote="punistation"]
As a recent fr'instance, some gal e-mailed me to ask if she could use my LAINstation as a source for her own Lain AMV.

Messing around with LAINstaion... That is one thing that should be done with extreme caution.

In regard to using other videos for source footage... I don't have a problem with people doing it... I don't see how anyone could have a problem with it... This is really childish.
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Postby AbsoluteDestiny » Sat Aug 17, 2002 10:32 am

Declan_Vee wrote:In regard to using other videos for source footage... I don't have a problem with people doing it... I don't see how anyone could have a problem with it... This is really childish.


I'll tell you why I'd have a problem with it.

There's a section on the last full video I made where I had to actually draw characters myself because there weren't scenes with appropriate shots of the characters.

Now if someone used that footage in their own amv without asking, I'd be very annoyed. Some scenes I had to animate myself frame by frame, it's not like they are using footage that was originally in the anime, in lots of my videos a large amount of the footage is changed in some way. In the video I was just talking about over 95% of the frames in the video are composited by me and can't be found in the original anime.

So, yes, if someone took that footage without asking me I'd be more than a little annoyed given the amount of time I took drawing, pasting and animating things myself.
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Postby Declan_Vee » Sat Aug 17, 2002 10:59 am

Well... Yes, that is understandable

"Stolen" fpotage from any video section either created manually by the creator or that had had numerous effects applied to it by the original creator. Yes that would piss people off.

I would hope that most AMV creators would have at least seen the series and known what clips they were planning on using before going ahead and using footage from an "unknown origin".

However the world being anything but ideal... In these cases I think it would be best to... hmmm, they'll be found out soon enough... and then... I guess at the end of the day it comes down to the original editor and the person who used their footage to sort it out between the two of them as to how to resolve the situation.
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Postby Petro » Sat Aug 17, 2002 5:02 pm

Declan_Vee wrote:
punistation wrote:As a recent fr'instance, some gal e-mailed me to ask if she could use my LAINstation as a source for her own Lain AMV.

Messing around with LAINstaion... That is one thing that should be done with extreme caution.

In regard to using other videos for source footage... I don't have a problem with people doing it... I don't see how anyone could have a problem with it... This is really childish.


If someone took one of your AMVs, cut it into 15 second chuncks, rearanged it, and then claimed it was their own. That wouldn't be upset that all of your editing and hard work was being used by someone else when they didn't ask you? I have no problem with someone using footage when they can't find the footage themself, but the issue here is using multiple AMV-creator-edited scenes: Where your hours of hard work to get scenes to look a certain way through editing and effects is claimed by another. That's the issue here. Not using footage within a scene because they can't find the episode. Look at the example vids and you'll see what I mean.
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Postby punistation » Sat Aug 17, 2002 10:18 pm

Petro wrote:"That wouldn't be upset that all of your editing and hard work was being used by someone else when they didn't ask you?"



     ...are we talking about some kid using someone's AMV's as footage for their own, or are we talking about ourselves, and how we don't get written permission from the anime's creators?

     I'm certain they would be much more upset that all their hard work was 'being used by someone else' when they (ie. we) didn't ask 'em. And yet... we don't loose any sleep over it. We even justify it, using claims we have no idea about, with words like "legitimate use", and "free publicity".

     It's easy to whine about all the blood and tears we've shed over our editing and creative juices when the anime studios aren't serving us Cease & Desist notices.


     I didn't make a request that PIONEER forward to LAIN's creative staff my letter asking them if I could use their creation in my AMV. I'm pretty certain they don't even know my AMV exists. I'm sure they'd be upset to find out that all their editing and hard work was being used by someone else who didn't even ask... but they don't know, so I'm not loosing any sleep over it.

     If someone grabs some LAINstation footage without asking me, I won't be upset, because I have no moral highground to climb up on. By requesting that they ask me first is just me trying to bring a lil' community togetherness and pleasant communication into this place. I'm not demanding that they must get written permission from me first... permission is is already there. It'd just be nice if they mentioned their intent is all. If they don't, it'd be unfortunate... but I won't be feeling violated anytime soon.

     We use the creator's work to create our own. Now others use our creations as their own. We're a part of a cycle, not the beginning and end of it. I know it's hard, but our ego's will just have to learn to accept that.


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Postby Petro » Sat Aug 17, 2002 10:23 pm

punistation wrote: ...are we talking about some kid using someone's AMV's as footage for their own, or are we talking about ourselves, and how we don't get written permission from the anime's creators?

I'm certain they would be much more upset that all their hard work was 'being used by someone else' when they (ie. we) didn't ask 'em. And yet... we don't loose any sleep over it. We even justify it, using claims we have no idea about, with words like "legitimate use", and "free publicity".

It's easy to whine about all the blood and tears we've shed over our editing and creative juices when the anime studios aren't serving us Cease & Desist notices.


I didn't make a request that PIONEER forward to LAIN's creative staff my letter asking them if I could use their creation in my AMV. I'm pretty certain they don't even know my AMV exists. I'm sure they'd be upset to find out that all their editing and hard work was being used by someone else who didn't even ask... but they don't know, so I'm not loosing any sleep over it.

If someone grabs some LAINstation footage without asking me, I won't be upset, because I have no moral highground to climb up on. By requesting that they ask me first is just me trying to bring a lil' community togetherness and pleasant communication into this place. I'm not demanding that they must get written permission from me first... permission is is already there. It'd just be nice if they mentioned their intent is all. If they don't, it'd be unfortunate... but I won't be feeling violated anytime soon.

We use the creator's work to create our own. Now others use our creations as their own. We're a part of a cycle, not the beginning and end of it. I know it's hard, but our ego's will just have to learn to accept that.
...


That's comparing apples to oranges. Anime companies don't mind AMVs, since they ARE advertisements for the anime. I can't tell you how many times I saw a good AMV, and then decided I wanted to watch the series. It's like free trailers that they don't have to pay for. Heck I've even asked a representative from ADV, and they said that though they legally can't sanction it, they intentionally look the other way.

Now if you were to take an anime, say Lain, re-arrange the scenes and make a new ANIME with it, claiming it to be yours, they'd be pissed off.
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Postby punistation » Sun Aug 18, 2002 12:48 am

Petro wrote:"Anime companies don't mind AMVs..."



     I must admit that's a pretty bizzare attitude to take. "I can use their stuff, which I admit is illegal, but someone else can't use mine, because that's morally indefensable".

     I must be getting old. I can actually remember when AMV makers put the effort into making AMV's and helping each other as a community, instead of fighting each other tooth and nail over their own pseudo-trademarked property rights.

     (I really should register the copyright on the name "LAINstation". That's my creation. My intellectual property! I want 50c every time people mention it. I'll let a-m-v.org list it in the Top 10% for now, but once I get the royalty submission slips filed...)


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Postby NicholasDWolfwood » Sun Aug 18, 2002 1:01 am

I have to agree with punistation here. You shouldn't lose sleep over somebody copying your AMV. It's a free world out there, people can do whatever they want. It's technically not your footage/music. You can't put copyrights on videos, because you're using somebody else's anime and somebody else's song, and making an AMV. If you put a copyright on your video, a real copyright, then you could probably get sued by both the anime creator and the song creator.
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