The AMV Genome Project

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The AMV Genome Project

Postby CrackTheSky » Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:34 pm

Hello! I wanted to share with you all a project I am currently working on, that I thought some of you might find interesting. What follows is a very long explanation of what this is all about...if you don't feel like reading, I understand. But! If you have the same passion for AMVs that I do, I would encourage you to take a look at this. And I know the forums here are all but deserted, so I know I'm really only speaking to a few people here. But beyond just thinking you all might like this, I am looking for feedback to improve it. So, please let me know your thoughts!

Background
I went to AWA last year, and it was the first time I'd been to a con in like six or seven years. In fact, it was my first meaningful interaction with people from this community in at least three or four years. It was awesome, and as a result I was sucked back into AMVs, a hobby I had been all but neglecting for a long, long time. It re-sparked a passion I've had ever since I discovered this community back in 2006.

On the drive back from Atlanta to Chicago, I had a lot of time to absorb the previous weekend, and to start thinking about getting seriously involved in the hobby again. An idea planted itself in my mind. Basically, I've always been fascinated by AMVs, not only as a form of entertainment and creative expression, but also as a fandom. I've always wished that some sort of substantial, in-depth analysis could be done on AMVs to track the fandom's development over the years. Within this community, I've noticed that assumptions are made and attribution is credited to certain videos and editors for initiating trends or being the "first" to do something, however there's never been any hard data to back those claims up.

This, among other thoughts, sparked this idea to actually sit down and start recording data into a spreadsheet that could later be used to analyze and eventually get a solid, quantitatively sound study which objectively shows us trends and characteristics of how AMVs have developed in the past 14+ years.

I didn't do anything right away, because I realized the amount of work that would be involved to get anything approaching a useful pool of data entered into a spreadsheet. In fact that alone kept me from doing anything for a loooong time. I had also presented this idea to another .org member, who just kinda shrugged it off and said that not many people would be interested. This doesn't bother me much; this is something I would want to do for my own purposes anyway, as a way to help preserve the AMV fandom if and when this place disappears. Whether other people find it interesting is of little motivation to me.

A couple months ago, though, I decided to just go for it. If it leads nowhere, that's fine. If I drop it and decide not to pursue it anymore, that's fine too. But I've been working on this regularly for the past two months which is unusual for me...I typically get bored and give up on these kinds of projects after a few weeks. This tells me that this is something that I'm interested enough in to continue, at least for the foreseeable future. Which brings me to today.

So...what exactly are you rambling on about now?
If this has piqued your interest, there are a couple things you will need to download before we go any further. Nothing below here will make sense unless you have the following:

(1) This ZIP file which contains all the pertinent documents at this point. The main one I'll be focusing on is the spreadsheet entitled "AMV list.xls".
(2) Apache OpenOffice 4. I've used OpenOffice Calc to compose this spreadsheet, and as a result the formula syntax is all OpenOffice-based. I'm not sure if this will carry over into current versions of Excel (it definitely won't work in old versions of Excel prior to 2007, as I make heavy use of the COUNTIFS() function which is not available in Excel prior to the 2007 version). For best compatibility, I recommend just installing OpenOffice.

What I have to present to you at this point is a spreadsheet with a small number of videos entered -- around 250 -- which records a number of different types of data about each video. Many of the columns should be pretty self-explanatory, but a few probably need some explaining. Allow me to do so below:

  • My rating: The decision to actually start doing this stemmed from my love of lists, and my love of rating things. I had originally decided to just start making a list of all the videos I have and rating them so that I had a kind of "Table of Contents" somewhere, but I quickly decided to turn this into the project I had come up with almost a year ago. The "My rating" column shows my personal rating (out of 10, gives me a little more room to work with and I only like to go in steps of .5). This is basically for me, probably will not contribute much to the final analysis except as a footnote.

  • Star rating: With donator status I'm finally able to see the star rating for each video I download, which has been great. Everyone knows what the star rating is so I don't really need to explain it, but I'm adding it here just to make a note that the star rating is ONLY entered if a video has at least 100 stars, as before that the rating can change too much with even a few additional ratings. I do exhibit some leeway on this; if a video is old and has close to 100 (~90 or so) star ratings, it's a safe bet that nobody else will be downloading said video in the near future given the extremely lowered .org activity of late, so in those cases I'll go ahead and add the rating to the list. For all videos that have less than 90-100 star ratings or are not available for Local download on the .org (including YouTube-only videos), a "0" is entered here.

  • AMV genre(s): For this column I'm just using the default genres provided in video profiles on the .org, with a couple exceptions: (1) "Dance" videos are those that actually contain dancing with the purpose of making the viewer want to dance, NOT videos that just use "dance" music. (2) The "Instrumental" genre is not included, but is represented in a more appropriate place in the spreadsheet ("General tags", see below). (3) I've added in "FX" as a genre to make it easier to identify those videos which use effects. Also, I have been entering genres according to my own standards, so a video's listed genres in this spreadsheet may not exactly match up with what is shown on the .org video profile.

  • General tags: Inspired by the tag system over at AniDB, this is possibly the most useful part of the list in terms of future data analysis. The idea behind this is to, as objectively as possible, list out the characteristics of each and every video that I enter. This runs the gamut from the dominant type of sync used in a video to the feelings it is meant to evoke in the viewer. Now, admittedly, many of these are subjective in terms of how a given viewer will react to or interpret a certain video, but I've found that in most cases it's been pretty easy to discern the intent. So, even if a video didn't make me feel particularly sad, for example, I could tell that that's what the editor was going for. So I add that tag.

    To keep it structured and consistent, there's a set list of 56 tags that can be added to any given video. After watching a video, I'll pull up the "Tags.txt" text document and go down it, adding each tag I feel applies. As I've gone through about 250 videos now, I've added a few tags to the list here and there, but I think the list is by now pretty robust and covers most important aspects of a video. Definitions of each and every tag can be found in the "Tag definitions.doc" document included in the RAR file posted above.

  • FX tags: This column lists out the various kinds of effects that can be found in a video, assuming the video uses effects. This is a very...inconsistent and probably incomplete list. I do not have standardized definitions for each tag like I do with the General Tags. There are a couple reasons for this; first of all, effects are incredibly diverse, and I'm coming across new types of effects all the time. It's difficult to make a definitive list of effects because multiple effects can be combined to create new effects and it gets really difficult to track which effects are used and where. Also, sometimes it's very difficult to determine when effects are being used at all.

    It's also hard to define the line between what constitutes an effect, and what does not. I've done what I can so far but I have ended up grouping certain things under a single tag; "color manipulation", for example, refers to any kind of editor-generated use of color that takes place in a video. This could be in the form of solid-color vector masks, to changing a scene to black-and-white, to using an invert filter. "Boxes" is another tag that comes up often, and simply refers to any sort of geometric overlay, regardless of shape. There are other such "umbrella" FX tags throughout the list.

    As a result, I don't know how useful this column will be for any kind of meaninful analysis down the line. It's really difficult to keep track of each and every effect in a video, so this may be only useful for getting a general feel for what to expect in a certain video, rather than an objective listing that can be analyzed. If anyone has any ideas for making this better or more consistent, I'm all ears.

Okay that's nice, but what's the purpose of all this?
Well, there are a couple reasons I'm collecting all this data. Most immediately, this will serve as a personal organizational tool for myself. I like the idea of having a massive list of AMVs with a bunch of different ways to sort and find videos based on whatever criteria I may be looking for at a given time. Also, through doing this, if I'm thorough I will end up watching a lot of videos by unknown editors. I hope to find a lot of great hidden gems over time as I do this.

But none of that really concerns you, dear reader, and probably only interests you insofar as you can do this yourself with the completed list, if it ever gets to a point of "completion". The bigger, farther-reaching reason I am doing this is, as has already been implied, to create a comprehensive AMV database that is more detail-oriented than what the .org already provides. Obviously, for the AMV fan, this could turn out to be an extremely useful source of information, not just for searching for and finding specific types of AMVs, but also for data analysis.

That's where I get most excited. My plan is to eventually get to a point where I have enough useful data in here to start setting different datasets next to each other, analyzing them, and hopefully identifying trends and such in order to give a more objective foundation to the history and devlopment of this fandom.

Moreover, from here on out this data is going to be accessible to everyone. I will be updating the public spreadsheet I've posted above on a regular basis so that anyone interested can track the progress. Eventually, if this comes to full fruition, this data could be used by any other armchair AMV historians for their own purposes. I may be getting ahead of myself there, though. (I have no illusions about how few people might find this interesting...but this is for those few!)

Awesome! This sounds great so far, and it looks like you've already started organizing the data! Care to explain?
Those of you who have stuck with me so far and who have taken a peek at the spreadsheet may have noticed that there are a few different tabs on the bottom, each containing different types of data. Allow me to explain each one.

  • List: This worksheet is the meat and potatoes of the database, and so far probably the most interesting one. This contains all the data entered on each video, from which all future analysis will be drawn.
  • Refined data: This is the first of what will probably end up being multiple similar worksheets where the organization of data drawn from the list will be collected and maintained. Currently I've already provided a couple examples of what some of the data I'm interested in could look like. What's there right now should be pretty self-explanatory, but in case it isn't, I have two charts which show how my ratings and the star ratings are spread by year. I also have a small chart showing the genre distribution by actual number and percentage of the total entered into the list. There's also a small chart showing the breakdown of videos that make use of effects vs. those that do not. Since it's still very early in the process we can't really draw any conclusions yet, and because of the small amount of data I have and the inconsistent spread across the years, the numbers aren't very interesting or revealing.
  • Tags: Here is a list of the tags, along with some corresponding numbers showing how many times a tag has been used, along with the percentage of the total number of videos on which a given tag appears. This actually might be interesting to some of you at this point, but again, still early.
  • Data references: This is just a kind of data dump for any time I need a formula in a different worksheet to reference an unchanging set of numbers or dates in order to process the data I want. This is probably not going to be of much interest to most of you, unless you're particularly interested in the workings of the various formulas I'm using in the "Refined data" worksheet.

Currently, visual representations of the data are not useful or enlightening because the numbers are so low and I do not have anything close to a representative sample of AMVs entered into the database. Eventually, though, there will be graphs. Many graphs. In fact I hope to do a formal and technical write-up of my findings, eventually. I'm talking years down the road, most likely.

Wait...so how long will this take?
Realistically, years. Or, at least a year or so. This is going to be an ongoing project, to be continued indefinitely, or at least until I get bored and no longer feel like doing it. But I want to at least get enough videos entered where I have a large enough source of data to start arriving at reliable conclusions. Problem is, because we're looking at 14+ years of videos, I need to make sure I have enough videos from each year to provide a substantial base off of which to work. I'm thinking 100 or so from each year might be a good starting point (emphasis on "starting point", as I realize just how small a number of videos that is for certain years). Entering 250 videos took me a couple months...getting to 1,400+ is about 12 months of work at the pace I'm going, and it's not even definite that I can maintain that pace.

Sooo, yeah, between my current work schedule and other responsibilities, it's going to take a while.

Is there anything I can do to help?
Yes! Several things, actually:

  • Tell me if this interests you in the least! Even if the answer is "No", feedback of any kind is appreciated! I'm doing this pretty much entirely for myself, because it's something I'm super passionate about and I want to see completed, but my motivation will increase, even if just a little, if I know others want to see it too. So let me know!
  • Let me know if there's something else I should add in to the "General tags" section. Like I said, I feel like it's pretty comprehensive, but there might be something I'm missing. If there's a tag you'd like to see quantified, now's the time to tell me! At 250 videos, it's still doable to go back and amend for anything missing. Past that, it's going to be too much.
  • Similarly, if there's anything else you'd like to see quantified or tracked, let me know. I can't make any guarantees, but I will take anything into consideration. I can't think of much else that I could add that's not there already, but that's why I'm bringing it to you.
  • Let me know if you'd be interested in contributing yourself! This is still something I'm not 100% on -- I have many reasons for not wanting to open this project up to public modification, all of which have to do with keeping the data as pure and consistent as possible, but if there are a few people out there who might want to seriously contribute (by which I mean add in videos, video information and tags to help me out), message me and I'll consider it. I really am not sure about it though so again, no guarantees.
  • Let me know if there are any particular things you want analyzed when all is said and done. I have my own ideas of things I want to check out, but if there are any particular trends you want explored, or any types of videos you want compared against other types of videos, or anything else you want examined in a quantitative way, tell me. This will help me build charts and tweak data entry if I need to in order to get the most accurate results.
  • If there's anything I'm doing wrong that you can see, please tell me. This is the first time I've ever attempted anything like this, and I am by no means a statistician. I'm kind of doing this blind, so to speak. If there's anything you see that might indicate my data collection is sloppy or inaccurate, let me know and tell me how to fix it! I want this to be as accurate as possible.

Anything else I should know?
There are a few things I need to head off right from the start. First, don't take the provided example data as representative of anything. If you look at the videos I've entered now, you'll see a number of oddities, such as there being a comparitively massive amount of videos entered from 2014 and only a few from 2012. This will not even out for a while, but over time, ideally, you'll begin to see a more even distribution across all the years.

Similarly, I've noticed that the star ratings are skewed high -- much closer to 4.0 than I was expecting. I'm wondering already if this is a result of people overestimating how much they like a video when they rate it, or if it's just because of the "7/10 is average" mentality that people seem to have these days. More than likely, it's because I think I've been purposely avoiding downloading videos with lower star ratings. I'm going to have to make sure I download some crap in order to get an honest sample, so, y'know, I've got that to look forward to...

Also, one of the most obvious pre-quantified pieces of information from the .org has not been included here: opinions. To be honest, I have no idea how I would integrate opinions into this database. Where star ratings only depend on one number to give you information, opinion scores really rely on two: the score given, and the number of opinions given. If a video is given 10s across the board, but only through one opinion, how useful is that information really? It doesn't tell me anything in terms of what a large number of people thought about that video, which is all I'm really interested in here. Also, opinions are much more naturally left when someone likes a video. You'll have very few people leave a negative op on a video they don't like, unless it's from an op exchange. Also, really, really popular videos can have...oh, let's say 100+ opinions. Even that is rare. Let's take AbsoluteDestiny's Do It Right (Shake It!), which has 142 opinions...compared to the 15,000+ star ratings it has. In every case, the number of star ratings far overshadows the ops, and so provides a much better and more accurate picture of what people think about a given video.

(As a side note, I know over the years people have complained about the necessity of leaving star ratings for every video they download...at this point I'm very grateful for that though, it's provided a lot of great raw data to work with).

One final note on the star ratings -- the data obtained through star ratings will be useful until about, oh, I'm guessing around 2010, 2011. In many cases, newer videos are not going to have a star rating entered at all, simply because not enough people are still around and downloading videos. It's unfortunate, but I do expect a lot of juicy stuff to come out of the mid-2000s specifically when it comes to analyzing star ratings.

I've tweaked the "Year" column so that the numbers entered into that column must be in a MM/YYYY format, however it only displays the year on the list because in general that's all I care about. I could have made it be the full DD/MM/YYYY, however I don't think that the resolution for this particular piece of information needs to be that fine. Knowing the month/year a video was released should be more than sufficient for any kind of analysis.

In the "Anime" column, if there are more than four anime listed, "Various" is entered. If there are four or less anime used in a single video, the different anime are separated by "//". If the "anime" entered is in fact a video game, a "(VG)" will be appended to its title.

I've done my best so far at classifying the music into genres, although it's admittedly probably not as accurate as it could be in some cases. If you want a good list of musical genres and their descriptions, I would point you to this page on RateYourMusic.

Also, it might seem like there's not a whole lot of information being provided per video that hasn't already been provided on the .org, and that's partly true. I think, in general, most meaningful analysis is going to come from the tags provided for each video, and those contain a LOT of information about each video that is not explicitly on the .org. Beyond that, compiling the data into a spreadsheet makes comparisons and data analysis possible on a large and extremely customizable scale, which the .org is not currently capable of. Even if all I did was enter the info that's on the .org into the spreadsheet, it would be enough to provide a lot of pretty in-depth analysis.

If you ever want access to the spreadsheet and other documents, click the link beneath the new, pretty picture in my signature (the picture itself will take you to this post in this thread, so anyone who wants to know what it's about can reference the information provided here). It will take you right to the directory where all the documents can be accessed. For now, it will just lead to the bare FTP directory. Eventually, if I feel like it (and I do right now, just don't have the time), perhaps I will start up a Tumblr or other blog in order to track progress and provide observations, etc, that I come across as I'm working on this. But for now, you can always access the most up-to-date version of the spreadsheet by clicking the link in my signature. In that directory will be a .txt file as well with a date as a title; this will just serve to show when the spreadsheet was last updated. I plan to upload a new copy of the spreadsheet at least once a week, so check back if you want to watch the list grow! And if you're ever just looking for new videos, see what's in there! I don't know if your tastes necessarily line up with mine, so going by my ratings might not be helpful. But that's half of the reason the tags are there!

And yes, there is a lot about this that is imperfect...such is the nature of the beast, especially when (at least as of now) this is all being done by one person. There are going to be tags put on certain videos that may not be agreeable to every person. I ask that you bear with me, correct me if you see anything blatantly wrong, and accept any minor issues you may see. Hopefully they aren't prevalent enough to actually have a noticeable affect on the data.

Finally, if you want to play around with the spreadsheet in-depth but you don't know a lot about how OpenOffice Calc works, here are a few helpful hints:

  • On the "List" worksheet, go to Data > Filter > AutoFilter. This will put a little drop-down menu in the corner of each of the headers, and when you click those you can filter out certain videos. For example, let's say you wanted to only see romance videos. You would go to the "AMV genre(s)" header, click the arrow, go to "Standard Filter", change the Condition field to "Contains", and then type "romance" into the Value field. Voila, now you see all romance videos on the list! You can mess around with these settings in each of the columns to filter the list down to super-specific videos. You can find all drama videos that use trance music from 2000-2003 that have lip sync in them, if you wanted. It's a very powerful tool for sorting and finding videos. To remove any custom-added filters, just go to each header that you're using as a filter (there'll be a little dot next to the drop-down arrow to mark those that are being used) and select "All".
  • You can sort the way the list appears very simply. Just click on any cell in the List worksheet, go to Data > Sort, and OpenOffice will automatically select the entire list. You can now sort the data by any of the columns. By default, I sort them first by Editor, then by Video Title, but you can change this up however you want.
  • If you don't know how formulas work in Excel-like programs, I wouldn't mess with anything on any of the other worksheets. All the numbers in the "Refined data" and "Tags" worksheets are dynamically generated based off of what is entered on the "List" worksheet, as well as the static numbers in the "Data references" worksheet. This means that as more data is entered on List, the numbers in the other worksheets (excluding "Data references") update accordingly. If you change anything on those worksheets, you risk messing everything up.
  • That's all I can think of right now...but if you have any questions on how other features in OpenOffice work, ask! I'm still learning myself so I may refer you to Google :P

You seem to be taking this too seriously.
Maybe! But I love AMVs and I love this community and I love this fandom in general, and I want to contribute something that may someday be useful or memorable to someone who loves these things as much as I do. Besides...odd as it may sound, this is actually a lot of fun for me |:>


If you made it to the end of this, congratulations and thank you! I appreciate your interest. If you have questions, comments, observations, whatever, please post away!
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CrackTheSky
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Re: The AMV Genome Project

Postby Gene Starwind 21122 » Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:21 pm

I like the data base. I think it is an amazing idea.

As far as adding in opinions, I guess you could have them be weighted. So find what the average number of opinions a video receives here on the org and apply the weighted "score". Videos that receive 0 opinions do not count into this equation. So lets just say 15 is the average, great. Then we know that videos with exactly 15 opinions will be the said given score once it is all averaged out. Videos that have less than that would be given a lower score until it reaches that level and videos that exceed the 15 opinions or whatever the average is would be given more points based on the average. It's a way to balance things out.

That's just an idea. I don't have the formula or an idea how to do that right now, but I could look into it over time.

It seems like a lot of work. It would be great to discover new editors. However there are just so many on youtube and not here, you may never discover them.

Anyways if I gather any information I'll test out your database and try it out. And maybe transfer you data / videos you could watch if you haven't seen them already.

Very well thought out. Maybe something like this could be implemented in the next version of animemusicvideos.org when it comes around.

Gene Starwind 21122
No matter what, stay calm, stay cool and live life to the fullest.
Plus as Gene would say always go big in life.
Anime Mid Atlantic AMV Contest Coordinator 2007-2011
Katsucon AMV Contest Coordinator 2010-2011
T-Mode Contest Coordinator 2013
Nekocon AMV Contest Coordinator 2014
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Re: The AMV Genome Project

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:19 am

I'm interested, if for no other reason than you could (given the right level of tag detail) possibly enter the right parameters and have it spit out playlist suggestions for themed blocks that you hadn't thought of.
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Re: The AMV Genome Project

Postby Shui » Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:29 am

This is interesting, but somehow I feel there ought to be an easier way to tag AMVs other than a spreadsheet.
You could make this a suggestion for the re-design.

I also think this will make sure you see trends, but not necessarly who started them or which AMVs were influental.
If you're looking for that information personal interviews from editors and derivation will give you good results much faster (also because the work's been done before).
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Re: The AMV Genome Project

Postby CrackTheSky » Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:07 am

Gene Starwind 21122 wrote:As far as adding in opinions, I guess you could have them be weighted. So find what the average number of opinions a video receives here on the org and apply the weighted "score". Videos that receive 0 opinions do not count into this equation. So lets just say 15 is the average, great. Then we know that videos with exactly 15 opinions will be the said given score once it is all averaged out. Videos that have less than that would be given a lower score until it reaches that level and videos that exceed the 15 opinions or whatever the average is would be given more points based on the average. It's a way to balance things out.

That's just an idea. I don't have the formula or an idea how to do that right now, but I could look into it over time.

Perhaps. I'm a little wary of adding opinion scores into this in any way, for the reasons stated in the first post. Especially because of how comparatively useless they are compared to star scores, and because of the tendency for people to only leave good opinions, rather than negative ones. I just don't know that the extra time it would take to add in opinion scores would really result in data that is equally or more useful than anything that's already in there.

BasharOfTheAges wrote:I'm interested, if for no other reason than you could (given the right level of tag detail) possibly enter the right parameters and have it spit out playlist suggestions for themed blocks that you hadn't thought of.

Yep. There are probably lots of other uses I haven't thought of as well. It'll be cool to see what people do with this information, if anyone other than myself does anything with it at all.

Shui wrote:This is interesting, but somehow I feel there ought to be an easier way to tag AMVs other than a spreadsheet.
You could make this a suggestion for the re-design.

I wish there was, but unfortunately there's no way (that I know of, anyway) to automate this process. And the .org currently has no repository for such information, so right now a spreadsheet is my best tool. Besides, like I said in the first post, the spreadsheet format actually is useful in other ways than just entering and maintaining data. With the use of formulas and (eventually) charts/graphs, it can be used to actually get useful information not available before.

I would absolutely love to suggest this for the redesign, and truth be told I'm hoping that something like this gets integrated when the redesign is complete. However, if I'm honest, I'm skeptical about the redesign ever actually getting done. Not that I don't think that the people involved can do it, but it's been a long time since the redesign was first mentioned and, as far as we can see...we're not much closer than we've been in the past. So, I'm deciding to take this particular aspect into my own hands for now. It'll probably be months, if not another year or so, before we see anything approaching a usable, updated .org, and even then (and taking the best-case scenario into account) if this is integrated into the new design, it will take more months of people actually entering tags before any analytics can be done. That itself is working off the assumption that the .org will still be relevant even after the redesign is complete, and that we will see increased traffic with people actually complying with the tag system.

In other words, we'd be looking at the same timeline (at least) that I'm looking at now doing this on my own, and that's in a best-case scenario. So...I figure, why not just get started?

Shui wrote:I also think this will make sure you see trends, but not necessarly who started them or which AMVs were influental.
If you're looking for that information personal interviews from editors and derivation will give you good results much faster (also because the work's been done before).

Yeah, I know it's going to be tough to track down "first" AMVs. That's kind of a pipe dream at this point, so I'm not banking on actually discovering that information. Thinking about that aspect was just kinda what sparked this whole idea in the first place. I'm mainly interested in trends, which, given enough data, can definitely be pinpointed over time. And I think by analyzing those trends, it will be possible to find those videos which actually started them, or at least find suggestive correlation, which might be as close as it's possible to get without doing way more data mining than I am currently capable of or willing to do.
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Re: The AMV Genome Project

Postby seasons » Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:34 pm

This is really interesting and I think I understand what you're trying to do with this, having read your post and looked over the documents you uploaded. It does seem like the sort of thing that will come into focus very slowly and require a lot of work, and that we might not know what that end result is going to look like at all until we actually get there. That said, I'd be happy to help out any way I can.

Opinions will be very difficult, if not impossible, to incorporate into this. Reading pages of opinions for certain very popular videos made back during the mid-00s (back when opinions were mandatory here), I often find pages of opinions with straight 10s given for every category but little or no comments at all given to back up the notion that there was really any thought put into the scores given for each category. Of course, after 2006, and particularly after 2010, only a handful of AMVs at all ever earned more than 5 opinions (let alone 15!), which tended to be written with a much more critical and thoughtful attitude, so it's really tough to see how opinion scores could effectively work for this. I'd like to think that they could since there's so much more data and a broader range of scores in them compared to the star ratings, but it seems like the perfect storm of factors -- specific changes in the rules on the site here, changes in how fans use the Internet (the shift to streaming AMVs vs. downloading, mainly), gradual changes in how fans view and consume AMVs (once a very rare commodity to be collected and exchanged, not so much anymore, to say the least), etc -- has kinda sorta rendered the opinion system sort of useless for a project like this. I think that the idea of an opinion system is still very valuable! But maybe that's another topic for another day?

I've take statistics classes before but the last time around I didn't do so hot and I've retained next to nothing of the information I absorbed from that so I can't vouch for the methods you're using or making any specific suggestions. It definitely does seem like you're thinking about this from all the right angles, though.

As far as specific general tag suggestions, I think there should/could be tags for AMVs that use video game footage (which I've generally never cared for but I know lots of other people really enjoy) or, speaking more broadly, AMVs that use footage from all different types of mediums. For example, "Jihaku," which I know you're already really familiar with (or, for a much more obscure example, something like this AMV, which also utilizes original music video footage). All of these kind of AMVs are not necessarily "Experimental" or "Innovative" or even "Weird" or "Meta." Or maybe they are, I don't know.

Like you said, this isn't open-source yet or anything so I'm left a little unsure about how other people are supposed to/can contribute to this in a meaningful way. I mean, I could definitely make suggestions for certain AMVs that should be considered for this, either because they're significant or really good or really bad (my totally subjective opinion, of course) or from a certain year or "notable" for this reason or that, but I don't know if that's the kind of input you're looking for right now.

I am interested to see how my perception of current trends in AMVs pairs up with the reality of what's going on out there. But in this case I'm talking almost exclusively about AMVs that are on Youtube, made by editors who have never even had an account here, and I have no idea how big that community is (it could be 100 editors, or 100,000, I don't know). I use the word "community" very loosely but you know what I mean. The big trend these days appears to be "Random Scenes" and I see it over and over again, and I'd like to know how this started and how it seems to have become the most common style of AMV editing in 2014 (with little sign of slowing down any time soon). I might start a thread on this sometime soon but since this is a chance to actually track its origin and growth, I just wanted to mention it here.

I've also wanted to make a list of AMVs that were made before 2000 (or see someone else do it, I don't care, my point is that this has to be done by someone, eventually), ideally with AMVs that are available on the Org or on Youtube, or at least that ones that someone around here has a copy of and can share and/or seriously vouch for. This would go beyond a simple thread where everyone namedrops their favorite Kevin Caldwell AMVs (which absolutely should be included but do not represent the end-all, be-all of pre-2000s AMVs) but hopefully a more comprehensive roundup of stuff that's fallen through the cracks over the years, stuff that's not popular or maybe even not very good but happened to be made before this site was created and before 99.999% of the people who are into this hobby today were even aware of AMVs and/or born. If you're interested in preserving AMV fandom then I think special attention needs to archiving/listing the oldest AMVs that we're able to find, especially if they're not well-known.

Not sure how to end this post but I really do want to follow this and maybe help, depending on what it is that you think you'll be needing now or further down the line.
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Re: The AMV Genome Project

Postby Scintilla » Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:20 pm

CrackTheSky wrote:Besides...odd as it may sound, this is actually a lot of fun for me |:>

... have you ever considered a career in actuarial science?
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Re: The AMV Genome Project

Postby CrackTheSky » Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:34 pm

seasons wrote:Opinions will be very difficult, if not impossible, to incorporate into this. Reading pages of opinions for certain very popular videos made back during the mid-00s (back when opinions were mandatory here), I often find pages of opinions with straight 10s given for every category but little or no comments at all given to back up the notion that there was really any thought put into the scores given for each category. Of course, after 2006, and particularly after 2010, only a handful of AMVs at all ever earned more than 5 opinions (let alone 15!), which tended to be written with a much more critical and thoughtful attitude, so it's really tough to see how opinion scores could effectively work for this. I'd like to think that they could since there's so much more data and a broader range of scores in them compared to the star ratings, but it seems like the perfect storm of factors -- specific changes in the rules on the site here, changes in how fans use the Internet (the shift to streaming AMVs vs. downloading, mainly), gradual changes in how fans view and consume AMVs (once a very rare commodity to be collected and exchanged, not so much anymore, to say the least), etc -- has kinda sorta rendered the opinion system sort of useless for a project like this. I think that the idea of an opinion system is still very valuable! But maybe that's another topic for another day?

Yeah, pretty much. I love the opinion system, but it's too cumbersome for most people to bother with these days (a product of our ADD culture? I dunno, that's definitely another topic for another day). It's also way too inconsistent. It can provide valuable data, no doubt, but probably not data that would be useful in this context. In any case, getting to the real meat of the opinion scores and figuring out a way to break that down and weight them (as Gene had suggested, not a bad idea really) would slow down data entry significantly in enough cases to be a nuisance.

The bigger issue though is that I'm not really interested in what people think about individual aspects of a video, which is all that the op scores would tell me. I'm interested to know what people think of the video as a whole. In that regard, the star scores are much more relevant. The individual aspects of the video are covered in the tags, there's no need to attach a number to them.

seasons wrote:I've take statistics classes before but the last time around I didn't do so hot and I've retained next to nothing of the information I absorbed from that so I can't vouch for the methods you're using or making any specific suggestions. It definitely does seem like you're thinking about this from all the right angles, though.

I've taken a few stats classes in my time and I barely remember any of it. I might have to brush up on some stuff when I actually start the data analysis part but for now, a lot of interesting stuff can be found just by setting datasets next to each other. I'm sure that's considered sloppy and unrefined but hey, I'm an amateur. The big thing is going to be collecting the data. I'll do a write-up using what I know and if someone wants to correct me, have at it :P

seasons wrote:As far as specific general tag suggestions, I think there should/could be tags for AMVs that use video game footage (which I've generally never cared for but I know lots of other people really enjoy)

Good call. I'll add it now. I'm already tracking video games elsewhere in the spreadsheet (any AMV that uses a video game as a source has a "(VG)" appended to the end in the "Anime" column), but it would be worth it to make it a tag as well. Thanks.

seasons wrote:or, speaking more broadly, AMVs that use footage from all different types of mediums. For example, "Jihaku," which I know you're already really familiar with (or, for a much more obscure example, something like this AMV, which also utilizes original music video footage). All of these kind of AMVs are not necessarily "Experimental" or "Innovative" or even "Weird" or "Meta." Or maybe they are, I don't know.

I like it and I will add additional tags to compensate. Thanks for the suggestions.

seasons wrote:Like you said, this isn't open-source yet or anything so I'm left a little unsure about how other people are supposed to/can contribute to this in a meaningful way. I mean, I could definitely make suggestions for certain AMVs that should be considered for this, either because they're significant or really good or really bad (my totally subjective opinion, of course) or from a certain year or "notable" for this reason or that, but I don't know if that's the kind of input you're looking for right now.

I'm up for suggestions. Like I said, the videos I have entered are not close to a representative sample, and total maybe 1/6 of the AMVs I have on my hard drive. The constitution of the videos entered so far is mostly random (although I have been focusing on pre-2003 videos for a panel I'm doing at NDK next month, so that's why there's a larger number from 2001 and 2002). I'm willing to watch anything though, if you want to send me videos go for it. I want to enter as many videos into this database as I possibly can.

seasons wrote:I am interested to see how my perception of current trends in AMVs pairs up with the reality of what's going on out there. But in this case I'm talking almost exclusively about AMVs that are on Youtube, made by editors who have never even had an account here, and I have no idea how big that community is (it could be 100 editors, or 100,000, I don't know). I use the word "community" very loosely but you know what I mean. The big trend these days appears to be "Random Scenes" and I see it over and over again, and I'd like to know how this started and how it seems to have become the most common style of AMV editing in 2014 (with little sign of slowing down any time soon). I might start a thread on this sometime soon but since this is a chance to actually track its origin and growth, I just wanted to mention it here.

Heh, nice. I just checked for you, of the 42 videos from 2014 in the database, 23 have the "random scenes" tag. I think you'll find though that that's not really a new trend. At least, I don't think so. In time, the data will shed some light on that for sure, but yeah this will be a useful tool for you. In fact...well, y'know what, just check your PMs, I'll send you some follow-up soon.

seasons wrote:I've also wanted to make a list of AMVs that were made before 2000 (or see someone else do it, I don't care, my point is that this has to be done by someone, eventually), ideally with AMVs that are available on the Org or on Youtube, or at least that ones that someone around here has a copy of and can share and/or seriously vouch for. This would go beyond a simple thread where everyone namedrops their favorite Kevin Caldwell AMVs (which absolutely should be included but do not represent the end-all, be-all of pre-2000s AMVs) but hopefully a more comprehensive roundup of stuff that's fallen through the cracks over the years, stuff that's not popular or maybe even not very good but happened to be made before this site was created and before 99.999% of the people who are into this hobby today were even aware of AMVs and/or born. If you're interested in preserving AMV fandom then I think special attention needs to archiving/listing the oldest AMVs that we're able to find, especially if they're not well-known.

YES. I would love to see this as well. I love older AMVs and am really interested in finding those that are unavailable here. I collect two things in life: CDs and AMVs. Thing is I don't know where to look for these, so if anyone else is reading this and wants to share old, rare or unknown AMVs, hit me up. And seasons too.

(And definitely check your PMs. I have stuff for you >_>)
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Re: The AMV Genome Project

Postby Lirinis » Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:05 pm

If I were doing such a project and if I were result-, not process-oriented, I'd be thinking in two directions:

a) Making tags' definitions as formalized as possible so that the work could be offloaded to one of the services where people do simple tasks for little money.

b) Focusing on automatically extractable data like music genres, number of sources, cuts intensity, color gamma, video length, keywords in comments. Comments can really be a treasure chest for auto-tagging.

Plan b) sounds pretty feasible to me.
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Re: The AMV Genome Project

Postby trythil » Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:18 pm

CrackTheSky wrote:As a result, I don't know how useful this column will be for any kind of meaninful analysis down the line. It's really difficult to keep track of each and every effect in a video, so this may be only useful for getting a general feel for what to expect in a certain video, rather than an objective listing that can be analyzed. If anyone has any ideas for making this better or more consistent, I'm all ears.


It may be useful to associate short video clips with each usage of each tag to illustrate what each tag means; all examples of a tag can then be shown in a single document. Systems like danbooru use this approach.
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̴̵̴̢̢̨̧͈̜͇̤͈̩̲̹͕̲̞̫̹̼̭͎̪̘̲̼̫̹̮͙͈̰͚̣̰̞̼̜̼̞͙̯̟͕̭͇͔̲̰̳̪̳̘̫̼͍̋ͦ̎̋̊̆̃̊ͥ̔⃧̆̐͌̏̀⃧̾̀ͤͬ͂̌ͣͣ͂̉ͮͬ⃧͊̏̌͂ͣ̒͑͑̈́ͩͭ͑́ͪ̌ͦ⃧̋̀̀ͣͧͩͣͭͣ̚͟͢͠͠͡ͅ҉̷̷̡̮͓̥̩̲̣̥̮̞̱̼͔͔͇̺̬̠̬̥͕̦̺̳̤̥̟̭̲̳͈̟͖⃧͂̆̀͗ͦ͛̾̓͌͒̅̆̊ͬ̍̽͛̐⃧ͩ̎̀̆̐ͭ̂ͭ͑ͤͪ̀᷉͌̐͆̓̅͗̊ͤ̓ͥͣͫ̾̚̚͞͝͝҉̢̢̛̖͍̗͇͚̘̭̠̦̖͈͎̩̭̖̩̹͍̼̝̥̱̳⃧͌͌͌̈́⃧̇ͦͮͮ̚̚͟a̛̲̫͈͇͇͙͚̥͋̅ͫ̽̍̀ͬͭͨ́ͭͩ̍̍ͥͣ̑̀⃧̽̓ͨͧ̏͘͢͝͝͏̵̢̭̰̱̤̣̳̣̥̪̪̱̘͖͎̟̱̭́⃧͋̔̇͗̋͆ͤ͏̷̨̟̙̝͈̬̟⃧̑̂̍ͣ͗ͮ̑̑̉̅ͬ̄͛̽ͥ̿̀͡͏̷̵̴̵̴̴̢̡̧̙̹͎̮̯̺͖͈̲̞̭͇̫̘̝̰͓͙͎̭͓̭̜̳̩̱̘̜̣͖̘̰̹̼̜͎̲̹̣̺͕͉͕̺̞̻̟᷂̳̘̱͈̱̜͎̞̟̥͍̦̹̤̙̱̭̬͕̗̯⃧̉͑̓ͮ͗ͭͣ͂̈́͆⃧̋͆͋ͥ̏ͬͩ͋͑ͨ⃧ͩͫ͗͋̅̂̏ͤ͛̾ͧ̇̓̌̅ͭ⃧ͭ̽ͨͧͣͭ̏̔ͦ̀⃧͛ͮͤͦ̐ͣ́̎͗̅͌̿̒́͆ͩ͛̿̏̕͘͜͜͡͡͠ͅͅͅͅ ̊̒̒̌ͩ̅͏̷̷̳͔̻͕͉̖̲̰̙̪̟͚⃧̓̀̌ͫ҉̴̷̵̡̢͓̝̪̣͈̥̲̫̬̺̭͚̝̟̬̻̫͙̹̖͖͕̤͚̱̣̮̞̣̹⃧͒̉ͯ̌͌ͭ̀⃧̐̆͛̆⃧͂ͭͨ̈́ͪ̂̒͛͊̿̊ͭ̌́͜͝͝ͅͅ͏̸͔̳̪̦̰͙̬̣͙̳͉̩̟͔̯̗̗̩̭̯̰͕⃧ͧ̆͌͂ͬͧ̃ͥ̿ͧ̍ͮ͛̊̍͂⃧͑͗̅ͩͮͨ̔̀͐̒̿͒̎̄̊̔̋ͬ͜҉̷̡̢̡͍͔̣̲͉͚̭͙̪̞͇̱͈̹̯̝̭̟̝⃧͒̑ͫ̆̌̾ͣ͂ͮ̏͗̂̊̾̐ͤ͂͠͏̷̡̱̹̙͎̙̞̰̞̲̩̩̭͇̹̖̦̖̪͚͓͔̜̤͖͉͚͕̳̩͇̰⃧͂ͥͧ̋̐b̔̍̄ͮ̿̆͌͒̀ͯ͒͆͋͑̿̊̕͠͞҉͏͇̝̪̼̦̻̜̟̬̼̬͍̥̞̼̮̯⃧ͦͮ̊̒ͮ̿ͭ̃ͮͬ⃧̋͂͗ͫ͐̌̀̐̈́̓̒̍͢ͅ҉̷̵̷̢̨͎͙̟̦͖͚̲̻̲̦̱̜̘͓̫̞̹͙̣̗̖̭̹̫̺̻͎⃧ͨ͊͗̉̑ͫ̅̓ͣ̌ͧ̄̆̎̐̑ͤͣ̀⃧ͪ͑̾̈́⃧ͮ̍̓̏̊̆̀ͯͮ̍̂̆̏̕͜͡͡ͅͅ҉̹̜̱̞͓̤̰̙̮̥͓̺⃧̑̄ͫͭ̑҉̛҉̵̛̗̙̦̰͇̼̭͕̩̥͓̲͕̦̥͍̤̤͔̯̬̮͉͚͖⃧ͩ̅ͧͪ⃧́̏͗̅̏̀́͗ͧͤ̑͘̚͘͝҉͟͏͚͍͈̩̤̼̞̰̰̹̥̟l̏̔̑͆҉̛́͏̷̸̢̨̨̛̛̻͚͕̭̘͚͔̮̼̮̲̳̱̠̪͍̦͕̝̘̗̯̲͕̤̱̗̖̳̖̬̫̦̬̥̦͙̝̰̩̳͚͈̬̞̠̗̪̩̙̼̺͖͚͇͚⃧̅̏͊͆̂̀⃧͌́̇͊̏͑̃ͥ̀⃧̈̈́ͩͦͨ⃧ͦ͆̎ͭͭ̋ͧ́⃧̒ͫ̿̿ͭ̿͂̕͢͜͜͟͠͡ͅͅ҉̸̴̸̧̧̡̞̱̜͇̘͓͖͚̻͈̣̘͉̟̼͉̫̜̫͖̬͓̻͓⃧̎͂ͩ̒ͧ͒̈ͤͬ̔̓̅̀⃧ͩ͆ͤ̈͋̓ͤ̓͂̿ͯͮ͝ͅ҉̧̹͖̮̺̪̹̦̺͈͇̪̹̻͈̲̹͇̮⃧̊͋̈́͗ͦ̓̌̅҉̜͍̳̝̺̖͈͔̘̗̙̻͙̣͔͖̟̕͢o̸̡̡̢̥͓̙̺̘̝̯̜̯͈̥͈̳̗̘͈̘͓͚̱̜͍̣̝̬̺͔̙͙̼̙̤͍͖̞̠̻̝̳̣͓̤͔̣̻̫̯͉̜̻̗̙̤̯̜͚̙͓͉̝̮̗̣̝̫̗̭ͭ̔̋ͤͥ⃧̋ͮͦͮ⃧ͣ̌̉̀͗͆̎̓̈́ͦ͊⃧ͧ͑͂̍ͨ͆ͩ́⃧ͫͮͨͩ̐ͫ͋̂͌̀̀̂̚̕͢͜͢͞͝͠҉̷̶҉̴̶̧̢̙̯̪̙͎͉̬͖̘̺̫⃧ͨ͑̃͐̀́ͩ⃧ͨͩ̈́̈ͤ̉́̏͑̓̍͋͋̈́̑̈́̋͢͟͜͡ͅ͏̵̷̨̡̛̻͍͚̠̳̮̪̭̦̳̭̞̣̤͚̭̮̰̰͉͙̼͙̤͔͍͔̖̩͙̭̺͕͓⃧̈́̃ͧ̾ͬͥ͂̉̉͗̅͐͒⃧̽͌ͭ̀͘͞ͅç̵̞̳̣̟̹̬̣͇̖̘̙̺͎̳̦̥̭̦̟̰͔̲̣͓̙̩̦̤̬̆̊ͭ̌̀⃧ͨ̓̌ͬ̊ͪ̌̀⃧̀ͩ̔̓̿ͨͫ̊̽͡҉̷̛͓͎̭̝̼̜̫̘́⃧̎̆ͮ̓̏̅ͥ̀̄͂̎̏̏⃧̓͆͐ͫ̅̋͑̄̂͊ͩ̈́ͬ̕̕͟ͅ͏҉̶̢͍̣͔̙̼̩̙̫̭̬̥͙̫̱̙̻͉̟̣͕̥̜̯̝͉̙̥͓̻̻͍̳͈̳̦̤̦̤̘͈̖̳̦⃧̏̀͗̈̔ͫ̓̆̿͆̀̽̐̓͊̆⃧ͤ̎̈͑̀̒ͣ̋̉̉̌̃ͨ̃͋ͣ⃧̊̀ͩ̃̐͊̚͘͟͡͡ͅͅ҉̨̦̭̱͎̼͙̜̩̮̤̠͚͓̬̮͖̪⃧ͣ͆̐ͫ̅ͨ͗ͣ̋͏̷̡̺̗̮̥̩͍͈̦̩͖̱͚̺̼̭̗́k̴̷̷̶̵̷̛͖͙̜̞̼͔̘̙͓̙̝̰̳̮͉̲̮̩̬̠̘̟͓̩͇̣̫͇̗̤͇̟̮͖̫̗͓̺̬̱̳͔͔̜̙̙͉̾̽͐̐̐͆̄ͣ̇̋̈́̇ͫ́͗⃧ͥͪͣ͒̾ͦ͂⃧̿̃͐̉͑̓ͭ̽̂ͧ̽̊́᷉͒ͥ͗̈́⃧̽̑̑̒͂̾̌ͪͦ̍́̓̽͛ͯ̓̕̚͟ͅ͏̷͈̰̟̬̙͓͖̳̻̬͖̣͓̹͙̙͚̝̮̱̮̟͉⃧ͪ̑̒̀̀⃧ͣ̿̓̽̚͠ͅ҉̷̶̶̢̡̢̢͙̙̯̱̹̮̪̜̮̰̙͖̩̳͇̬͓͓̣̰̮̙̘̣̪̳̖̱⃧͋̓͗̃̎͊ͨ̊̎̍̓ͩ̀̔͆̓͋͛́⃧́͛͗ͪ͡͠͝ͅͅ҉̙̙̤̻̙̺̬̟̜̪̲͖̩̜̣̯̗̗͍̭̣̮͕̺͉̩̞̼͔̬̦̖̯⃧̿͐̒̀ͨ̇͐ͥ̓ͬ̑̅̃̑͢͢ ̡̡̛̟̝̬͙̩̹̻̟̱̒ͫ͆̽͛ͨ͊͌ͤ̽⃧ͤ̄̉̅ͧ̇͗ͪ͛͑͗̆̂̕͟͞҉̸̵͉̭͓̹̯̮̝͚̙̼̜̘̰̝̖͔̮̝̱͈̭͚͚̠̜̗̱͚̝̣̩͓⃧ͬ̋̊͋̆́ͨͯͫ̐͛⃧ͩ̾ͤ̃̄͂̊̿̐́́⃧ͥͥ̐͋̉̔̾̚̕͜͞͞͡ͅ͏̴̵̵̡̢̨̛̝̜̜͔̘̯͍͔͖̲̻͎̥̺͔͙͍̲̤͓̘̘̱̥̻̳̜͉̣⃧ͯ̅͐͗̊⃧ͧͯ̈⃧̽͌ͦͭ̊̑̈́̿͆ͣ̐ͮͤͧ̆̑̈̾̑̚̕͜͞҉̢̢̢̧̨̳͓̬̮̰̥̱̞̜̻̮̤͕͚̥̼̝̹̫̤̣͍⃧̽̒͐ͯ̍͋͑ͬ̅̈͗̈́̈́͑́̕͠o̶ͦͪͫ̾̆ͬ͋ͭ͏̵̢̟͕̮̣̭̩͉̗͍̠͍̱̠̜̭̝̀⃧ͩͨ̓ͨ͋͌̑͐̎ͨͭͦ͠҉̷̛͈͉̳̦̞̯̟͙̫̥̤̤̬̹̜̦̺̪͔͈̮̳̠̬̥̗⃧ͭ́ͮͮ͂ͦͫ͊ͤ̾̓ͯͧ̒ͩͧ̈̀⃧ͫͪ̏̎̇́̈́̐ͪ̔ͩ̽̿̀⃧̒ͦͥ͋ͮ̿͑̅́̚̕͢͞ͅ҉̷̵̧̨̨̡̢̛͇̰̠̩̯̯͙͈̱̙̜̥̟͚̖̣̘̖̭͍̺̖͚̙̣̠͖͓͖̯̰̰̜̲̫͖̣͖̫̗̩̭̫̪̗̩͇̦̳̼̯̥͓̙̱͈̹̹͍̹̠̗̼̙͉͔̳᷅͐͒̐̎ͥ́͑̏ͭ͋́͂̀⃧ͧ͗̅̌̊͗͌⃧ͧ̓̆̊͆ͧ̎̓⃧͌ͨ̀̅̃̐̆̄̈̎ͫͮ⃧͐̊ͮ͐̄̏ͧ́̕͘̚̚̚͜͝͠͠ͅͅͅf̶̶̵̶͕̤̲̗͙̮͍̣̟̤͍͇͉͖̮̻͕̱̖͉̹͋̋̃̄́͒́⃧ͣ͛ͩ͗ͣ̆ͬ͛͑̋̌ͫ͛́⃧̈̈ͯ̓᷁͊́͋̈͘͟͝ͅ͏̶̴̶̴̴̶̷̴̡̨̢̨̛̛̯̮̝͍̟̭͓̳̥͔͕̝̳̭̬͍̞͔͚̗̥͙̫̭̣̳̱̭͔̠͙̱͎̹̻̮͇͙̗̣̩̙͎͕͚̭̞̝̩̘̩͖̯͖̞̺͙̻̺̻̣͚̯̱̖̠̰̘͎⃧̃̿͊͌ͤ̍͒ͥͫͬ́ͩ̏͋̽̍̂⃧͐̄̾ͬͫͩ̃ͨ̀̽̔̾̂̔ͥ⃧ͬͤ͋͗͑̇̊ͫͥͣ⃧͊̓́͊̉͋̈́ͭͤ͋ͧͮ̈͗̌⃧͒ͤ̽ͩ⃧̊̓ͦͨ́̚̕̚̕͢͢͜͞͡͝͡͠ͅͅͅͅ 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̴̡̨̡̡̹̻̼̼͖̫̦̩͔̫̪̳̙̰͎͙͈̣̹̦͓͙̖̥̻̙̞̻̝̟̝̯̩͔͚̞̬̩̤̮͖͇̙̩͍ͦ́̎̍͗ͨ͋ͧͨ͗ͫ͌⃧̑̃ͧ͂ͭ̽͂̇͑̇̽̃̒̈̋⃧̂̑ͨ͗͗͋̋̿͒͗ͩ͌̇⃧̾͆ͩ̔ͦ̚̕͟͟͜͜͠͡͏̖̞̦̫͎͇͙͚͉̫̯̼͙͙̯̙̭̀̀⃧̎̌̐͒̇͟͞͞ͅ҉̵̡̡̝̭̘̖̠̟̗̹͎̜̟͉̱̘᷾ͫͭ̔̾̆ͨ͊ͯͫ̈́̑̕̚͘ͅ͏̶̵͇͉̩͍̜͍̝̦̼̞̙͎͔̙̠̳̗͕̥̗͇̠̖͇͖᷂⃧ͦ̓ͨ̈́̅⃧͂̊ͣͥͨ̅ͯͥ̎ͭͧͨ̑̓ͮͣ̒͑ͮͩͣ͊́͢͞͡͡ͅͅͅ҉̨̡̛̞͖̜̼͙̖̳̞̮͚̟̝̹͉̹̟̠̻̦̘̻̼͖͎̭͍̤̣̮͖̬̫̪̺̟̭̯̹͎̮̥̠͍͍̱̲̖⃧̐ͬͨ͌̆ͥ͒͌̈́͂̾⃧̽̍̄̍̅̒̅̈́ͮͯͧ̀̅̓͒ͯ͘̕̕͟͟͞͞
trythil
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Re: The AMV Genome Project

Postby CrackTheSky » Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:47 pm

Lirinis wrote:If I were doing such a project and if I were result-, not process-oriented, I'd be thinking in two directions:

a) Making tags' definitions as formalized as possible so that the work could be offloaded to one of the services where people do simple tasks for little money.

b) Focusing on automatically extractable data like music genres, number of sources, cuts intensity, color gamma, video length, keywords in comments. Comments can really be a treasure chest for auto-tagging.

Plan b) sounds pretty feasible to me.

For (a), this is already halfway done. I've provided formalized definitions in a Word document included in the ZIP file for all the "General tags". The FX tags will (hopefully) receive a similar treatment at some point.

(b) is a little harder. Much of the data you reference isn't actually extractable, at least not from the .org directly (music genres, cuts intensity [not really sure what you mean there], and color gamma to be precise). Even if it was I wouldn't know how to automatically get that, I'm no programmer. As for the comments, it's an interesting idea but unfortunately it relies on the editors actually talking about their own videos in the context I'd need them to to get the proper tags. I don't think it would be terribly efficient. If this were to get integrated into the .org redesign, something like that might be useful...however as it stands right now, there's no way that could be consistently applied across all videos to get the kind of information that's going to be useful to me.


trythil wrote:It may be useful to associate short video clips with each usage of each tag to illustrate what each tag means; all examples of a tag can then be shown in a single document. Systems like danbooru use this approach.

If I understand what you're saying, this can already kind of be done with the spreadsheet I have. You can filter the list so that only videos with specific tags show up; if anyone wants to know what a certain tag means, all they'd have to do is watch a few of the pertinent videos to (hopefully) get a feel for it. Obviously there are no "short video clips" right now but that might be something to consider in the future.
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Re: The AMV Genome Project

Postby CrackTheSky » Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:12 pm

I have updated the Project Files link (see link in my signature below) with the up-to-date master list. Within the ZIP file is now a text file called 'Changelog.txt' which I will include with all subsequent updates. It will show the list of videos added since the last update, along with any other changes that might have taken place within other files. There are a few that have taken place already within the last week. Check it out if you're interested.

Also, it was noted in the first post but I know a lot of people probably just skimmed it so I'll mention it again: the .txt file in the FTP that's just a date is just there to show when the ZIP file was last updated. It serves no other purpose.

From here on out, the project will be updated silently every Friday, barring 9/12/14 when I will be out of town for NDK (woop woop). If there are any major updates that require their own post, I will post in this thread. I will continue to answer any questions that people might have as well, so feel free to post here.

I do plan to get a blog up and running, hopefully within the next few weeks, if for no other reason than to serve as a journal for the development of the project. If this comes to fruition I'll post a link here. Thanks for the feedback and support guys!
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Re: The AMV Genome Project

Postby TritioAFB » Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:47 am

Scintilla wrote:
CrackTheSky wrote:Besides...odd as it may sound, this is actually a lot of fun for me |:>

... have you ever considered a career in actuarial science?


That's how I ended in medicine :awesome:

I'll take a read, I want to see what you're planning :book:
Making AMVs by day, Going to Gym by Night
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Re: The AMV Genome Project

Postby CrackTheSky » Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:38 pm

Clicky

In a poorly-disguised attempt to keep this thread from locking, I wanted to post an update here for those few of you who showed interest in this back when I first posted it. Now might be a good time to look into this again, as I have been adding to the database consistently since I started, and it now has over 500 entries. In the grand scheme of things, it's not a huge number, but a few things are starting to come into focus and I thought some of you might be interested. So, I'd encourage you to check out the spreadsheet now to see how things are developing. A list of things that have been added since I originally publicized the project:

  • New tags, including "Live action", "Long", "Short", and "Video game" for helping to track specific types of media other than anime used in some AMVs, as well as providing a quick reference for AMV length in tag form. (As ever, specific definitions for each of these tags is provided in the "Tag definitions.doc" document in the ZIP file).
  • A "Duration" column has been added in the List worksheet, which provides the length of each video in seconds...this has been one of the more interesting things added, as I'll explain below.
  • A "Duration" worksheet has been added to start analyzing trends in video duration. Again, see below for my comments.
  • Added an "average-by-year" of my personal ratings in the Refined Data worksheet. This probably won't interest the general public much but it's helped me to see that I'm not quite as cynical as I thought I was.
  • Added a "Notes" column to the List worksheet. This has actually been quite useful, it allows me to make personal notes on various videos, as well as general notes for observers (i.e. if a video is YouTube-only, or if it is a Vault video with limited information available).
  • Changelog.txt has been added to the ZIP file which shows what specific videos are being added to the list each week, as well and other changes made to the documents since the last weekly update.

As it was the last time I commented, there's still a relatively small number of videos in the list when you consider how many videos have been uploaded to the .org overall, but some stuff has come to light, specifically in regards to video duration, that will probably not change too much as more videos are added. Check it out:

Image

Not too surprising, but cool nonetheless. This basically shows a general downward trend in video duration over the last 15 years. Of course, and I can't stress it enough, there aren't very many videos per year, so take this with a huge grain of salt, but I predict as I go on this trend will be confirmed, and down the road might even become more extreme. It's already somewhat confirmed in my mind by the fact that there are three separate years which have comparable numbers of videos (2002, 2007, and 2014) and the difference between then and now is pretty unmistakable. Also, I do believe that in the case of duration the sampling is pretty close to random, as there's no bias in my watching shorter videos vs. longer videos.



Image

This is a little bit more unexpected, at least for me. This shows a similar breakdown of average video length, but this time by genre. It's no surprise to me that parody, comedy, dance and fun videos are shorter than drama, romance, sentimental, and serious videos, but it does surprise me that action videos are tending to the higher end of the spectrum. The most surprising thing, though, is that last bar, the one I've so eloquently entitled "FXgasm".

"FXgasm" is a tag in the database, not a genre, but I was interested how it compared so I added it. These are the videos that put effects on display throughout the duration of the video; basically, these are the videos that were made just to show off effects work, and everything else was (in most cases) secondary. I'm honestly quite surprised to find that FXgasm videos are the longest videos on average, as I would have expected exactly the opposite. It'll be interesting to see how that develops as more and more videos are added to the database as well, but I'd expect these figures to polarize as time goes on, rather than even out.

Anyway! Just thought I'd share. I'm loving this project, and enjoying it every step of the way. I'll keep you updated as more and more things come to light. In the meantime, if you feel like following the development of the project, I do post occasionally about it specifically on my blog, subculture diaries. If you just want the Genome Project-specific entries, click here. So far there's only one entry, but I'll be updating it occasionally as I come across things worth posting.
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Re: The AMV Genome Project

Postby guguza » Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:43 pm

interesting project, but is still working?
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