AMV Viewpoint

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AMV Viewpoint

Postby Begi » Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:26 am

Ok so this has been troubling me for a while. I understand that everyone looks at art (yes...AMVs are a form of art...) in there own way and understands it in their own meaning and has their own personal preferences. I like watching AMVs that have a rather complicated story to them and really uses scene manipulation (effects or based on placement) to help portray that story or meaning, idea, moral, thought, etc. I like AMVs that are able to break the boundaries of their source and actually portray a whole story or concept without actually having anything to do with the anime at all, but rather uses the anime as a means of portraying that concept. For example, using "Anime A" as a source to portray a concept/idea/story; however, someone who has no idea what "Anime A" is or who the characters are could watch the AMV and still get the same message at the end as someone who is a die hard fan of that anime.

But I feel like this isn't something people want to see. I feel like people would much rather watch a Romance video or just some AMV that only fans of a certain anime could understand. Don't misunderstand me, there's nothing wrong with that. I'd like watching a video that recaps a certain arc or saga of an anime. But think about it, that's all it does. I feel like the significance of watching a video with a deeply routed story is just unimportant to most of the community. I don't know if people are ready for AMVs that break the anime out of character and completely twist it around. I don't mean that in a belittling way, I just feel like people like watching stuff that is more aesthetically pleasing. I also feel that it's a reason why AMVs might become extinct soon enough (but that's a whole different topic...)

Yes, this is all a form of story telling but I really don't see many AMVs like that. And please, don't say "go watch a romance AMV". Romance is the easiest form of story telling and, arguably, is even easier to edit than a random action AMV with no concept at all. What I'm talking about is an AMV with a deep underlying story or concept that actually is portrayed through solely through imagery. Using the source as a "means of explanation" if you would.

A great example of this would be none other than Whisper Of The Beast. Now I can't speak for everyone but I have never watched Naruto and quite frankly, I don't like it. Yet I was able to pick up on the story of this AMV. Maybe because that's what I look for in a video but I thought it was portrayed rather clearly. I felt like you could understand the story without ever having to watch Naruto.

It's very difficult to edit a video in the manner of which I'm speaking about, but I feel like videos that accomplish it are much better than those that don't. I also feel that it is a form of originality that often get's overlooked simply because a source might be overused. So with that being said, I ask you:

Is the community not ready for these type of AMVs? Are they too complicated for the general community to understand?
-OR-
Would you rather watch a video with really great editing that shows off complicated visual techniques (such as cut placement or FX work)?

Gimmie your input!
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Re: AMV Viewpoint

Postby TritioAFB » Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:07 am

I know that feel bro.
I will repeat it again: the concept is the soul of the amv. While the concept can be understood in terms of a story or the use of certain techniques, I believe the Story has a greater impact. And as you mentioned, if they are able to retell a story into a new way, at least for the editors it's something fresh. Unfortunately for the audience not involved too much into the edition, this might not be a 'sucess' in terms of the impact, but still be able to recognize what the editor tried to do.

Now about Effects, since this seems to be the new tendency for the future, I;m not against the use of the fxs. It's just that for making Fxs, there are tutorials normally. But for making a story with a BG work.... there's no guide or tutorial that could help you. It's up to the imagination of the editor to really make something outstanding.

However, it's sad to see a well portrayed story that lacks technical work, it feels incomplete
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Re: AMV Viewpoint

Postby 995Gabber » Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:58 am

I don't think about it this deeply. I mean anything will be fun and enjoyable to watch "if it is well done". Now the editor him/herself is free to edit the type which he/she likes doing the most, and I really think what they should edit is not to be decided for them by someone else. Because at the end we are editing for the fun of it and we shouldn't forget that :)
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Re: AMV Viewpoint

Postby TheInvisibleBlackxX » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:19 pm

Well I have to totally agree with tritio...Plus I would like to add that in my opinion crossovers are the most enjoyable for me right now...It is something new, a story that someone thought it would suit better to that character or even anime. Its the persons viewpoint and if FX are applied correctly as tritio said before it can turn into a masterpiece.
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Re: AMV Viewpoint

Postby FarmXD » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:10 pm

In my opinion, AMV's could be or not be considered art. I don't really care.
For me is just a hobby. I never liked or supported that much those videos where
they take anime characters to tell a story. I prefer original animations in that case.
What people really want is something fun to watch, that's the base of this hobby, so telling
complicated stories and make the audience think is just not appropiate for this field.
Have fun doing it, letting others having fun watching your piece of work.
Also, fashion AMV's like using a tremendous amount of different sources for a sentimental
story-telling or random video is just so boring. There were ok at the beggining but
now It's like action videos; zoom + boom + twitch....they're all the same.

But waaaait, you haters. As Doctor Who said, the soul of the AMV is the concept.
But concept doesn't imply something complex or difficult. Even if I hate multi-anime
videos there's always exceptions. And why?? Because they're well done. Because
concept is original or fun and they can tell a story without make audience think.
They could be enjoyed as the good videos they are. Examples? Sure!
"The Race" by Hito (istiv) same as "Shounen Bushidou", "Jihaku" by Tyler,
"Rock'an Rollaz" by DN@ and Creed, "Bad Devil" by FarmXD (lol), etc, etc...

You can enjoy to make complex videos with different stories or whatever, or
random action stuff. But concept fixs everything and marks the difference between
works. What's so different between all One Piece AMV's in youtube with
music of sum41 and "Kaizoku no Bouken 2" by Hito (istiv)?? It's attractive, it's fun,
the style of edition is uncommon and the concept of including the real spirit of the series
(Not just fights and more fights) and mix it and adapt it to the song makes it an
unique piece. Same with "Fluffy Kittens & Rainbows " by Chiikaboom; the cute moe magical
animes mixed in the violence of Dope is just hilarious. With simple ideas you can
get not only an original concept, but a lot of audience because you're marking the difference.

So it's not these type of video are not material for the comunity. Most of them are just made
for one kind of audience. I just talked about unique videos with the structure you're talking
that reached a massive audience. The community must not be ready for this stuff. You, people,
have to be ready for the community, surprise them and blow their heads off.

Good night.

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Re: AMV Viewpoint

Postby FarmXD » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:12 pm

PS: Sorry for the bad english but I was in a hurry xd
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Re: AMV Viewpoint

Postby UniqueDazZzle » Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:02 pm

for me at some point I like the creation of AMV more than Anime :PP
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Re: AMV Viewpoint

Postby Begi » Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:08 pm

TritioAFB wrote:Now about Effects, since this seems to be the new tendency for the future, I;m not against the use of the fxs. It's just that for making Fxs, there are tutorials normally. But for making a story with a BG work.... there's no guide or tutorial that could help you. It's up to the imagination of the editor to really make something outstanding.

However, it's sad to see a well portrayed story that lacks technical work, it feels incomplete


That's true, and that's why I gave Whisper of the Beast as an example. It contains great visual effects with an awesome story.


@FarmXD
How can you not consider it a form of art? It's a way of expressing something and that's really what art is. You look at music and how can you say that's art when there's no visual experience? Well, it is; it just does it through sound. AMVs are a form of art similar to movies or pictures/paintings. They are pleasing and that's all you really need to say. Whether they're "legal" or not has nothing to do with the fact that it is art. Social acceptance means nothing if there is a specific audience who enjoys it.

And you right because concept is just the way of presenting the AMV. But you could have a visual based concept where you want to do a lot of color correction to change the mood of the video or you could have a more story telling oriented concept where your placement of cuts and specific scene choice might convey a whole different story altogether. I don't know if you understood what I meant by concept but that's what I'm talking about. Essentially "what is the purpose of why you edited in this specific fashion."

Once again, I love videos that might be random action but show great editing skills. Saying that a story is more important than anything in an AMV would be incorrect, of course there actually needs to be some technical skills involved but I don't know, I enjoy those kind of videos. Or even videos that spark a thought.

For example:
The Age Of Spiralism by Gotegenks invokes a lot of thought. Some of it is reflective of the source but most of it is generated by the video editing itself.

And being ready for the community? I don't know if that makes sense. If I'm only editing to reach the standards of everyone around me, my videos will become dull and then every video starts to look the same with only the source differing. I feel that most AMV fans would just sit there and watch a recap of something as opposed to something truly unique that gets out of the original form of the anime.
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Re: AMV Viewpoint

Postby AceD » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:12 pm

Begi wrote:I like AMVs that are able to break the boundaries of their source and actually portray a whole story or concept without actually having anything to do with the anime at all, but rather uses the anime as a means of portraying that concept. For example, using "Anime A" as a source to portray a concept/idea/story; however, someone who has no idea what "Anime A" is or who the characters are could watch the AMV and still get the same message at the end as someone who is a die hard fan of that anime.

But I feel like this isn't something people want to see. I feel like people would much rather watch a Romance video or just some AMV that only fans of a certain anime could understand.
You are so wrong, it is something people want to see, I can say that with 100% certainty.
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Re: AMV Viewpoint

Postby Begi » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:28 pm

AceD wrote:
Begi wrote:I like AMVs that are able to break the boundaries of their source and actually portray a whole story or concept without actually having anything to do with the anime at all, but rather uses the anime as a means of portraying that concept. For example, using "Anime A" as a source to portray a concept/idea/story; however, someone who has no idea what "Anime A" is or who the characters are could watch the AMV and still get the same message at the end as someone who is a die hard fan of that anime.

But I feel like this isn't something people want to see. I feel like people would much rather watch a Romance video or just some AMV that only fans of a certain anime could understand.
You are so wrong, it is something people want to see, I can say that with 100% certainty.


Then how come these type of AMVs aren't as prevalent? If I'm not wrong, I remember RrezZ stating back in the day that he doesn't give a shit about story or any of that; he just likes the external visuals of it. Also you get a lot of people (especially the YouTube audience) that look at these Akross videos as the greatest AMVs ever made yet so many of them are just senseless grunge-filled random action videos.
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Re: AMV Viewpoint

Postby Ileia » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:37 pm

The types of AMVs that people want to see doesn't determine the type of AMVs people want to make. It's not supply and demand.
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Re: AMV Viewpoint

Postby slimed » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:42 pm

first, i think amvs are certainly an artistic medium. you're taking a source and cutting and rearranging and manipulating it to create something new, in addition to audio that probably isn't related to the original video source to begin with.

i know the kind of videos you're talking about. i don't know whether it's that the community isn't "ready" for them, because i've seen several come from this community that have received a lot of attention and praise. your own example for instance, whisper of the beast. another example would be scorpionultd's bebop/trigun crossover. another example that comes to mind is umika's metamorphose, which won best video at big contest 2012. these are obvious examples. i think the problem lies with that they are sometimes difficult or tedious to execute. these are just one sort of video, and i don't think a lack thereof is partly responsible for this hobby dying as you suggested. although, whether or not they're complicated to understand isn't important. if the other of these two types of viewers has to do with enjoying visuals and good editing, then a properly executed abstract storytelling video probably contains this and will be enjoyable for any type of viewer, even if the viewer doesn't understand the story or thought behind the video in the first place.

on the other hand, i can also enjoy an amv that isn't a reworking of the anime's original story. although that doesn't mean i like random videos (i sometimes do..). i like videos that portray a mood and not necessarily a story, but a theme/concept; whether this involves epitomizing the show's original storyline, or accentuating certain elements, or even approaching a video more figuratively. of course orchestrating stunning (appropriate) fx and "really great editing" into the mix can be/definitely is a plus, but i think that's more on the technical objective side of editing, and can work for either of the two "or"s being discussed and is beneficial to any video (more so the great editing over fx).

imo any video/idea can be enjoyable depending on the execution, and any video can end up shitty depending on the execution.

otherwise i agree with a lot that farmxd said. simple concepts can be very original, and it doesn't require reworking an anime's storyline. it just takes thinking outside of the box.
i think he meant something different by "be ready for the community." basically, does it really matter what any viewers' original connotations with any certain sort of editing are? whether they dislike abstract storytelling videos or not, or a random action video, or a unique concept you may have for that matter -- give the idea a shot and edit it the way you like and maybe it could be received differently than preconceived notions maybe suggest. and that's only if that matters to you in the first place. some people are content with editing only for themselves. i think either is okay
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Re: AMV Viewpoint

Postby AceD » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:47 pm

Begi wrote:
AceD wrote:
Begi wrote:I like AMVs that are able to break the boundaries of their source and actually portray a whole story or concept without actually having anything to do with the anime at all, but rather uses the anime as a means of portraying that concept. For example, using "Anime A" as a source to portray a concept/idea/story; however, someone who has no idea what "Anime A" is or who the characters are could watch the AMV and still get the same message at the end as someone who is a die hard fan of that anime.

But I feel like this isn't something people want to see. I feel like people would much rather watch a Romance video or just some AMV that only fans of a certain anime could understand.
You are so wrong, it is something people want to see, I can say that with 100% certainty.


Then how come these type of AMVs aren't as prevalent? If I'm not wrong, I remember RrezZ stating back in the day that he doesn't give a shit about story or any of that; he just likes the external visuals of it. Also you get a lot of people (especially the YouTube audience) that look at these Akross videos as the greatest AMVs ever made yet so many of them are just senseless grunge-filled random action videos.
How are you determining whats prevalent? are we talking about views across the internet and overall recognition? If so I know people love those kind of videos from a statistical point of view.
If your talking about why they are not prevalent among editors, there could be various reasons that only people can answer themselves. Lack of skill or the time needed to invest in such projects is probably a big reason, along with just not wanting to.
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Re: AMV Viewpoint

Postby Begi » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:54 pm

Ileia wrote:The types of AMVs that people want to see doesn't determine the type of AMVs people want to make. It's not supply and demand.


I understand that, and I'm not exactly saying that, but to say that people won't edit a certain style to fulfill what people want to see or to live up to a certain expectation for a specific audience would be untrue. It kinda is supply and demand cause I mean c'mon...who wants to see a Niotex AMV with no fx???

But once again, that's not what I'm arguing. What I should say is I feel that these types of videos don't get noticed like videos that use a bunch of video effects with no sort of deep underlying story at all. I mean look at the top 10% rated videos http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... 0&c=&f=&t=

So many of those videos are just random effect videos that are either parodies or just fun comedy videos. Don't misunderstand me, there's nothing wrong with that, but I feel like videos that rely on story telling go under appreciated BECAUSE people would much rather watch a comedy or romance video or just a random twitch-and-grunge-splat-all-over-the-fucking-place video.
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Re: AMV Viewpoint

Postby Begi » Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:02 pm

ahh shit...didn't see slimed's post. but I see your point and it does make a lot of sense. i guess I'm mixing up story telling with emotional impact as well, when in reality they aren't the same thing
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