AMV Editing: A dying hobby (?)

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Re: AMV Editing: A dying hobby (?)

Postby Ileia » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:11 pm

AceD wrote:
BasharOfTheAges wrote:
DJ_Izumi wrote:When I post an a-m-v.org link to Facebook, it doesn't generate a direct video window that the viewer that can then click on to watch it directly in their timeline on their phone. There's one of the Org's first problems.

I'm curious as to what services actually do this... In my experience 9/10 videos I see on YouTube are blocked via mobile devices because of copyright claims on the audio.
Stop using the official youtube app. All AMVs work fine on mobiles in other youtube apps.



I don't use the official Youtube app. I've tried several others and I'm still blocked. You got a specific app in mind? This would be very useful for me >_>
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Re: AMV Editing: A dying hobby (?)

Postby AceD » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:37 pm

Ileia wrote:I don't use the official Youtube app. I've tried several others and I'm still blocked. You got a specific app in mind? This would be very useful for me >_>
PlayTube, FREEdi and NextVid all work on android, my phone is android so I know they do.

iOS I'm told ProTube and Jasmine work. I assume iTube might do. I can't test iOS though.
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Re: AMV Editing: A dying hobby (?)

Postby Ileia » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:19 pm

Sweet, thanks, I'll try em out.
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Re: AMV Editing: A dying hobby (?)

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:10 pm

Yea, I never actually used the Youtube app itself, only Chrome (which detects a mobile version and applies mobile version blocks).

DJ_Izumi wrote:
BasharOfTheAges wrote:
DJ_Izumi wrote:When I post an a-m-v.org link to Facebook, it doesn't generate a direct video window that the viewer that can then click on to watch it directly in their timeline on their phone. There's one of the Org's first problems.

I'm curious as to what services actually do this... In my experience 9/10 videos I see on YouTube are blocked via mobile devices because of copyright claims on the audio.


Err, yeah, I'm actually pretty certain that specific Youtube mobile players don't block videos due to copyright and that copyright blocks are globally applied to the entire YouTube system...

Uh... no. A lot of agreements were signed recently (this year) that allow videos to play just fine on desktop systems, but not on mobile devices. You'd get around that by writing an app (or a browser) that forges a user-agent identifier to say it's really a desktop system and not a smartphone or other mobile device.

Most of what I have on my channel right now, in fact, won't play on a devices that identifies itself as a mobile device.

Apps don't even enter into it, though, as the quote i replied to was talking about generating an in-line video inside a facebook timeline - which would have to be done in a browser, not in an app, right? Or have they integrated the youtube app into the facebook app somehow?
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Re: AMV Editing: A dying hobby (?)

Postby ShodanKid » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:23 am

I couldn't tell you what rathole I went into to find this thread (this is the first forum I've ever been 'active' on) but I'm just so glad I found a place where people are expressing the same concerns I had.

Just over 3 months ago before AX, a friend who was joining me said, 'You know what an AMV is, right?' Since she wanted to see the competition. To not look entirely stupid I threw amv into YouTube and watched the first thing that popped up...and immediately said....'Dafuq?!?'

I won't mention the video, but to this day I still don't care for it. I can't stop watching it. And given what I've seen...I'm starting to like it a lot more.

I love everything about AMVs. But yes, you have to swim through mostly mediocrity to find the gems. I like the interesting ideas (even if they don't quite work) the obvious coherent effort that goes into creating something out of pieces of something else. But we also have a burgeoning culture of maniacs who think it's cool to throw every effect they can...if you know what you're doing, it can work...usually it doesn't. Yeah, I have some scholarly reasons why specifically, but it comes down to no one is taking the time to find their voice to create something meaningful...instead, if it ain't flashy and OMG I SPENT 80 HOURS MASK MASK MASK MASK....time probably better spent fixing a bad edit. You don't have a solid edit, you have nothing.

Community turns into fraternities of people who really only do things to impress their friends, which eats away at places like this to be at all beneficial to people like me. I rely heavily on scouring opinions that is can trust and with the kind of work I explained above I can't use those opinions as a reliable source...my most viewed video is the most recent video I posted and it is also the video I have with the least amount of ratings. And frankly I don't care about the latter...I care that nearly 2000 people got to see it and I hope enjoyed it. I care that despite low views on YouTube for all my videos people have literally used search terms to specifically find my video. That is what matters to me...not the flashy weirdness I see in every video (especially MEPs) that make them all look the same, but that the goal and voice I'm trying to develop that is uniquely me is affecting someone enough that they heard about my video or saw it that they had to find it again.

AMVs aren't dying. But the art is. Every after effects tutorial is some dude editing MW footage it seems. Everyone and their mom seems to have a 'studio' with some flash bangin' studio. The org is hard for newcomers to break into and I've kinda just used it as a thought and video repository. And in the meantime...I'm using this while I work on other projects and am not editing live action footage to keep the gears greased and learn some new tricks. Oh how much I want to toss something to someone I trust and say, 'Thoughts' and get back some abstract answer like, 'Beh, no reading' but instead I have to have these conversations with myself (that was a real back and forth I had with myself). I was so focused on the mainstream I didn't think to chop down my first video (an arduous short film instead of music video I guess) and grew too clever for my own good with the second (though it's my friend's absolute favorite). I've learned so many lessons, and my ideas are expanding into new corners I never thought to look. It becomes rough that with so much effort in making sure pacing is right, placement, music nor video overpower or why they do, the flow of images, the composition, and even if it doesn't quite hit the mark....

Is outpaced by the cut and paste and apply Twitch and done! job is regarded with even a second look (unless it did come out awesome). Even my throwaway work is deeply rooted in Matching with the music source. That's just how I handle it. Others handle it differently to work with their style. In the end I just want my work to transcend audio and visual...make a reason for it to exist. In some cases, these stories that come into my head when I listen to a song I can actually show everyone else what I'm thinking of! Maybe I have a story, or a joke, or something that looks damn cool.

There are plenty more AMVs to be done. AMVs may be lost a bit to GMVs, but the interest is out there. And there are still plenty of ideas...not every AMV needs to be a revolution. And the Org may not be THE place for now, but it won't wither away into that dark night and disappear. Not when 10 year old material is still being referenced in modern day (which 10 years in Internet years mine as well have lived with the dinosaurs).

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Re: AMV Editing: A dying hobby (?)

Postby chambeyc » Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:11 am

Shui wrote:The Online Mekka of AMVs are definitely the Russians and the French.

Sadly, the french community is dying as well right now, at least 2 of the biggest website, http://www.ketsuryu.com/ (suddenly stop being updated a year ago), and http://forum.amv-france.com/ (which forum is barely active right now .... pretty much like here).
I think some teams may still be active though, like Soul's team and Sora to kasai.


If you ask me why the hobby is dying, I would say it's a consequence of the communities and forums dying:
New people who want to edit will now instinctively go first on Youtube before searching for website like the org. But even if it's a convenient place for streaming, youtube is not a place where you can discuss a hobby, learn things from FAQs, get some friends with the same passion, etc. It's not a forum, and the social interactions are limited to the comments.
So I think most of newcomers now edit one or two videos on their own, get some brief comments on streaming websites, then get bored at the third video, and just quit at the fourth, since there's no one/no place to discuss about it. Only very few of them will be motivated enough to search for the org, and to subscribe (especially since now the forum seems so inactive).

Consequently newcomers don't get enough experience to bloom and create only few average-at-best videos before quitting, and with older editors moving on with their life there is simply no way the flow of things can change. The only surviving website is AMVNews.ru, thanks to wide range of activities (various contests, daily news), and the russian editors being numerous enough to stand on their own (in term of feedback and forum activity).
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Re: AMV Editing: A dying hobby (?)

Postby Tsu! » Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:05 pm

I have mixed feelings.

Firstly, I'm not happy that the AMVs.org community has started to get quiet. But that being said, almost all websites that revolve around a forum/board system have gone the same way. I consider myself lucky when I find a forum that has a dozen active members these days, and AMVs.org has way more than that. It's the way of the internet, sadly, instant gratification, modernization, blah blah blah... I still enjoy the conversations that forums inspire that 140-character-limits just don't seem to.

My mixed reaction mostly comes from the lack of AMVs being uploaded here. In some ways, that's disappointing, but in others, I don't mind at all. In the heyday here it was possible to simply tap in an anime and browse through and find something pretty quickly that would be pretty decent, whether you based it on reviews or simply "This looks interesting". At the same time, this place also became the repository for hundreds (or thousands) of half-attempted, windows media maker, color-strobing videos- or worse yet, vids that were completely un-edited except for slapping a song onto an episode. (I'm not saying it's impossible to make a good vid in WMM; it's just that many of the ones I'm referring to were people jumping on the bandwagon and not really caring beyond that.) Nowadays, most of those cruddy videos tend to get tossed onto YouTube instead, and don't come here. And I'm really okay with that.

For me, personally, I've seen two sides of the coin to uploading on YouTube vs uploading here. I prefer here; I've gotten more feedback and responses, and YouTube comments just don't carry the oomph as they too tend to follow short little one-liner responses or simply clicking a like button. Bah. Some folks have mentioned the restrictions on who can view videos depending on video and audio content, but it's kind of amusing to me. I'm sure plenty of people here remember when AMVs.org got slapped with that legal threat that resulted in taking down all videos containing Evanescence, Seether, and basically any other artist under that label... yet those vids thrive on the YouTubes.

As for the original topic title... I don't think AMVs will ever really die. As long as people enjoy editing and enjoy reproducing their mental image onto the computer screen so others can see it, AMVs will continue. The contests and "fame" are a bonus. But didn't this hobby start out with individuals deciding they had a great idea and piecing it together individually, not as a community or a group, on their VCR-to-VCR system or the newfangled computer capture cards? As long as there's still people with that creative spark pushing them, AMVs will stick around.
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Re: AMV Editing: A dying hobby (?)

Postby -Nfp » Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:59 am

i'm a bit late to this thread and i also stopped editing actively a few years ago but i browse youtube from time to time and there are tonnes of people still making amvs on there, and even more just simply watching them.

I just think this website failed to adapt to the times and fell behind. Same thing can be said about other sites. But also a lot of the amv editor mainstays moved on from the hobby as well, and rather than for newer generations moving onto the org and replacing them which was happening previously, instead, they're doing other things like sticking to youtube.

Like someone else said, competitions at festivals and conventions is peaking at the moment. But the org just doesn't seem to have that aura about it anymore. It use to be the only place you could come to if you were truly serious about editing, wanted the best feedback, wanted to join the best community and whatnot. Not so much anymore
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Re: AMV Editing: A dying hobby (?)

Postby CastielTheFallen » Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:57 pm

Otohiko wrote:One suggestion: don't look at the .org as definitive evidence of anything. AMVing is alive and well. The .org is not; it's not entirely youtube's fault, but I think to suggest that AMVing is dying is premature. In particular, if you ever go to a major convention AMV event, you'll see plenty of evidence otherwise. While .org activity has dropped, you'll see that as far as contest and event participation, or as far as even actual videos released, AMVs are alive and well. It's just that the .org has not kept up with the times. There is no lack of either AMVs or fan interest, just that it's moved elsewhere.

This.
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Re: AMV Editing: A dying hobby (?)

Postby VCEnder » Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:24 pm

I'm an editor that was pretty active here for several years back around 2006-2009 (forgot my login info). Back then people were arguing and making all kinds of predictions as to what the effect of streaming videos on the org would. My prediction then is the same as my assessment now - the org's focused has changed from content production and consumption to more of a hobbyist's forum. And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing
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Re: AMV Editing: A dying hobby (?)

Postby Begi » Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:19 pm

There is still a good amount of AMVs being uploaded on to YouTube, but it's very inconsistent as far as consecutive releases by the same editor. It seems like one editor makes an AMV and never uploads one again for another year or even more, resulting in a less TOTAL amount of AMVs. A possible rebuttal would be "Oh no, AMVs are just dying on YouTube."

Well then, let’s take a look at another site. Possibly the biggest AMV outlet…

Looking at the .Org you notice a similar trend. If you look at the amount of videos that have premiered per year you will notice that every year after 2006 the amount gets smaller and smaller. Now I understand that a new member to the .Org could upload a video that premiered, for example, in 2005 and then when searching the video catalog, it would list the video as being from 2005; and, that might skew the actual amount of videos UPLOADED to the site in 2013. But, I'm not sure of any function on this website that allows you to show the amount of videos that have been UPLOADED per year as opposed to DATE PREMIERED. But still, if this site were active, wouldn't there be people giving donations?

http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... /stats.php

Looking at the donation statistics is quite scary. We are on the last day of the 30 day period and we haven't even reached HALF! I don't know who might cover the rest of that bill, and I don't know how much it costs, but it's not pretty. My only deduction from this is that this site is also dying. Less Donations + less videos premiering per year = less activity. For God's sake I don't need to go through all of this, just look at the Forum activity, it's DEAD! Look at all the new members. Out of 210 new members ONLY 3 HAVE POSTED ONE SINGLE POST EACH! WTF? I think this is another indicator that AMV editing is dying.
Your reply? "BRO THAT ONLY REPRESENTS THE .ORG, NOT EVERY OTHER SITE!"

Really?

http://www.ketsuryu.com/ --> stopped being updated 1 year ago
http://www.amvnews.ru/ --> a video or 2 might be uploaded every few months
you cannot upload videos to reddit, so no -_-
amvswamp.com takes videos from other sites as do most other amv websites


WHERE IS THIS SITE THAT NO ONE FUCKING KNOWS ABOUT THAT YOU SAY AMVS ARE BEING UPLOADED TO?

I think that if the .Org activity comes to a halt and the amount of NEW YouTube videos being uploaded decreases, it's a good representation of the hobby dying as a whole, since they seem to be the biggest outlets for AMVs. However! I have a theory about this, a possible reason why. Many people who get into editing for the first time are in their teens (15-18) and really have no responsibilities other than high-school. Once they graduate it seems like the hobby is kinda left behind because they now have important life matters to attend to such as school, relationships, work, etc. But I think within the next 2-4 years, many of those editors will start to come back because they will be finished with school, have an established relationship, and work is...well...work.

Or this shit is just dumb as fuck and people finally realized it's a complete waste of time.
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Re: AMV Editing: A dying hobby (?)

Postby InsaneWaya » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:54 pm

SQ wrote:NS, I disagree.

I think there is favoritism. Up to about 2007 it wasn't that difficult to get in the "in" crowd, regardless of how good or bad your AMVs were. But after that it seemed like the clique wasn't accepting any new members and if you didn't have some sort of real life relationship with editors before then, you were fucked on the forum.

A part of me thinks that the only reason I even get replies to my threads these days is because my join date is so early (and I have a title).

Not to say that's really bad... Every website and group has cliques. But this is my opinion on what's going on here. It's just difficult for people to get critique/feedback, or form friendships over the forum.


I can totally see this, when I first started editing it was on youtube in like early 2006 and I was using WMM. The persons videos i was watching and getting inspired by most at that time was Zetzu. compared to me he was a giant and he had a decent amount of respect even back then. I simply asked for him to give me an opinion on a video and gave him my msn messenger info(yea back when most of the community talked on there lol) and he added me, gave me his opinion and then proceeded to show me how to download vegas and talked with me for a good hour. He introduced me to other people in the community and from that i gained the inspiration to edit for as long as i did. But as time when by and some people stopped editing and i tried to meet other people nobody really would reply and what went from being able to have someone in the community to talk to everyday and bounce ideas off of it went down to only a few and most of them were barley editing anymore anyways. The whole community needs to actually be a community. As it sits noone really goes to new people (or even just others in the community that they don't know) to talk to them outside of the forums and really make friends. I know personally that if i didnt have all the friends i did after i met zetzu and he introduced me to people here i never would have continued editing. They were my inspiration more then anything and they kept me motivated to edit. I didnt need a contest to edit i just needed people to help motivate me and to talk to about it. Nowadays when i try to edit i can never finish because i have noone to bounce ideas off of or beta test like i used to. I think thats a major issue that as a community can be solved. I could go on about it in more detail but i think what im saying is clear. I just wonder if anyone else feels this way.
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Re: AMV Editing: A dying hobby (?)

Postby l33tmeatwad » Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:37 pm

InsaneWaya wrote:
SQ wrote:NS, I disagree.

I think there is favoritism. Up to about 2007 it wasn't that difficult to get in the "in" crowd, regardless of how good or bad your AMVs were. But after that it seemed like the clique wasn't accepting any new members and if you didn't have some sort of real life relationship with editors before then, you were fucked on the forum.

A part of me thinks that the only reason I even get replies to my threads these days is because my join date is so early (and I have a title).

Not to say that's really bad... Every website and group has cliques. But this is my opinion on what's going on here. It's just difficult for people to get critique/feedback, or form friendships over the forum.


I can totally see this, when I first started editing it was on youtube in like early 2006 and I was using WMM. The persons videos i was watching and getting inspired by most at that time was Zetzu. compared to me he was a giant and he had a decent amount of respect even back then. I simply asked for him to give me an opinion on a video and gave him my msn messenger info(yea back when most of the community talked on there lol) and he added me, gave me his opinion and then proceeded to show me how to download vegas and talked with me for a good hour. He introduced me to other people in the community and from that i gained the inspiration to edit for as long as i did. But as time when by and some people stopped editing and i tried to meet other people nobody really would reply and what went from being able to have someone in the community to talk to everyday and bounce ideas off of it went down to only a few and most of them were barley editing anymore anyways. The whole community needs to actually be a community. As it sits noone really goes to new people (or even just others in the community that they don't know) to talk to them outside of the forums and really make friends. I know personally that if i didnt have all the friends i did after i met zetzu and he introduced me to people here i never would have continued editing. They were my inspiration more then anything and they kept me motivated to edit. I didnt need a contest to edit i just needed people to help motivate me and to talk to about it. Nowadays when i try to edit i can never finish because i have noone to bounce ideas off of or beta test like i used to. I think thats a major issue that as a community can be solved. I could go on about it in more detail but i think what im saying is clear. I just wonder if anyone else feels this way.
To be honest it's not about who you know in real life, it's how you communicate with others from this community. In terms of meeting people on the forum to make new friends you'll definitely have to start communicating by other means as well. Most of the groups tend to communicate on services like Skype and become friends that way. Most Skype groups I have been a part of have been pretty open to adding new people to group chats when they asked for feedback and advice. It's a lot easier to give feedback in chat rather than a long post or email, therefore most everyone I know tends to do it that way. To be honest there aren't really "in crowds", the crowds that are considered that are just well known from winning big contests and/or being active in contests here on the forum. My advice is make friends on Skype, get involved, and most of all have fun :)!
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Re: AMV Editing: A dying hobby (?)

Postby InsaneWaya » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:57 pm

l33tmeatwad wrote:
InsaneWaya wrote:
SQ wrote:NS, I disagree.

I think there is favoritism. Up to about 2007 it wasn't that difficult to get in the "in" crowd, regardless of how good or bad your AMVs were. But after that it seemed like the clique wasn't accepting any new members and if you didn't have some sort of real life relationship with editors before then, you were fucked on the forum.

A part of me thinks that the only reason I even get replies to my threads these days is because my join date is so early (and I have a title).

Not to say that's really bad... Every website and group has cliques. But this is my opinion on what's going on here. It's just difficult for people to get critique/feedback, or form friendships over the forum.


I can totally see this, when I first started editing it was on youtube in like early 2006 and I was using WMM. The persons videos i was watching and getting inspired by most at that time was Zetzu. compared to me he was a giant and he had a decent amount of respect even back then. I simply asked for him to give me an opinion on a video and gave him my msn messenger info(yea back when most of the community talked on there lol) and he added me, gave me his opinion and then proceeded to show me how to download vegas and talked with me for a good hour. He introduced me to other people in the community and from that i gained the inspiration to edit for as long as i did. But as time when by and some people stopped editing and i tried to meet other people nobody really would reply and what went from being able to have someone in the community to talk to everyday and bounce ideas off of it went down to only a few and most of them were barley editing anymore anyways. The whole community needs to actually be a community. As it sits noone really goes to new people (or even just others in the community that they don't know) to talk to them outside of the forums and really make friends. I know personally that if i didnt have all the friends i did after i met zetzu and he introduced me to people here i never would have continued editing. They were my inspiration more then anything and they kept me motivated to edit. I didnt need a contest to edit i just needed people to help motivate me and to talk to about it. Nowadays when i try to edit i can never finish because i have noone to bounce ideas off of or beta test like i used to. I think thats a major issue that as a community can be solved. I could go on about it in more detail but i think what im saying is clear. I just wonder if anyone else feels this way.
To be honest it's not about who you know in real life, it's how you communicate with others from this community. In terms of meeting people on the forum to make new friends you'll definitely have to start communicating by other means as well. Most of the groups tend to communicate on services like Skype and become friends that way. Most Skype groups I have been a part of have been pretty open to adding new people to group chats when they asked for feedback and advice. It's a lot easier to give feedback in chat rather than a long post or email, therefore most everyone I know tends to do it that way. To be honest there aren't really "in crowds", the crowds that are considered that are just well known from winning big contests and/or being active in contests here on the forum. My advice is make friends on Skype, get involved, and most of all have fun :)!


That's true but what i was try to say is its harder to do that nowadays though. The reputation of the .org has been mentioned before but a lot of ppl are intimidated to even post on the forum much less try to add people that have a reputation like that. Also the more people making strides to being active not just in the forums and with critic here but on skype as well, the more i believe that people would have a continued interest in this hobby. Im just saying this because personally my best memories that involve editing are involving talking with all my old friends on msn and/or skype and i think in a community thats healthy you need people that talk to each other like everyone did back then on a daily basis.
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Re: AMV Editing: A dying hobby (?)

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:51 pm

Though I kinda said it in my previous posts in piecemeal fashion, the current state of these forums are pretty simple to understand.

1) Churn is a thing - by that, I mean a healthy, active community will have within it a natural cycle of older members drifting away from their previous active states - posting less and lurking more. They will be replaced, in turn, by newer members or members that want to express themselves more. These new folks will take over being the active members of the forums as the older folks drift away.

2) We aren't a healthy community, so we don't have enough new, active members to replenish the churn. This causes turmoil, and angst and drama, and, most importantly accelerated burnout from people trying to "pick up the slack." Being helpful all the time is a workload that is far more easy to manage when spread out over a large number of people. As the number of people that have the time and energy to do this shit year after year shrinks (because life happens) it falls to fewer and fewer hands to take up the responsibility. These folks, understandably, decide it's not worth it after a while, and leave too.

3) While I'm sure our "reputation" may have played some part in scaring people off in the past, I think there's more of a social group dynamic at play here in web trends in general that can explain why we don't have enough new blood to replenish the churn... And that is the our web culture has shifted to formats of confrontation adverse, real time, echo-chambers. We (and I'm pointing my finger at the younger ones here) don't want to debate and defend our opinions. This is a hobby, it's supposed to be fun, not work. Forums are inherently text based, and the lack of tone tags means we go off the hinge and assume everyone is biting at our throat with every word. We can take criticism from someone we know in real life just fine. We know how they act; we have a feeling for how their minds work. We know that the paragraph they just wrote wasn't meant to upset us - it was meant to inform us. But THAT guy over there? He's a complete ass. Why would I want to subject myself to him when I can get all the feedback i need from my curated group of facebook friends or my IRC/skype buddies? Why force myself to engage in discourse with more people when I already know too many people. My Christmas card list is already too long... fuck that.

#1 is a fact of life for the web as a whole. #2 is happening because we are a knowledge-based community that has very little it wants to talk about. #3 is just sad. I don't see it getting better. There is no will for it to get better. All these threads do is try to guilt more people on their way out into pushing themselves more and making #2 happen FASTER from increased levels of stress and a growing fount of cynicism.
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