How has the AMV landscape changed?

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AceD
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Re: How has the AMV landscape changed?

Post by AceD » Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:38 am

BasharOfTheAges wrote:It worked for Scintilla on the squid girl video because the music was actually his. But, yea, you can issue take down notices or even simple take down requests via legal-sounding form-letter style PMs too. When I gave a shit it worked for me... 30-40 times.
So easy to block that, and get the person who sent it potentially banned :wink: . Not like most youtubers know this though

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Re: How has the AMV landscape changed?

Post by trythil » Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:42 am

I know Scintilla's case is different. I bring it up because (1) he deserves to receive shit about it and (2) I love the irony and think it'd be pretty funny to see it happen again.

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Re: How has the AMV landscape changed?

Post by BasharOfTheAges » Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:58 am

I'm not sure I see the irony. Someone can be pro-remix culture and be all for sharing works that exhibit substantive transformative alteration (one of the tenants of fair use and the evolution of culture itself), but be against sharing unaltered works. One is expressing creativity and adding value, while the other isn't. In fact, I think that’s the general view of this very site. Or it used to be at some point, with the whole “don’t use downloaded footage” thing.
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Re: How has the AMV landscape changed?

Post by trythil » Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:08 am

You're right, it's not really irony. Asshattery is the more precise term that I should have used.

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Re: How has the AMV landscape changed?

Post by JudgeHolden » Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:13 pm

trythil wrote:You're right, it's not really irony. Asshattery is the more precise term that I should have used.
:up:

and like I can can complain about 1.6+ MILLION views: http://youtu.be/blt6lqUXMd0 ... though they still don't know who made it. :awesome:

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Re: How has the AMV landscape changed?

Post by Rider4Z » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:44 pm

i can't see myself issuing a take down notice of one of my mash-ups. if i did then i would have to issue one for myself considering i own neither source :|

but thanks for your guys' input on the youtube issue. i respect your opinions even if i don't necessarily share them.

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Re: How has the AMV landscape changed?

Post by MimS » Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:14 pm

Stop complaining about having your AMVs stolen, you're not the ones who made the animes so basically we're all thieves.
(On another but still related subject : that's pretty much why I don't want to win any money from this hobby thanks to contests or else 'cause I use a work that isn't mine.)
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Re: How has the AMV landscape changed?

Post by Kionon » Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:44 pm

To address YouTube, once Kionon got banned, I decided to never make another account. I have had my videos put up by others, but ultimately, I am not popular enough for anyone to steal my videos the way others have had theirs stolen. So, aside from a few ridiculously desperate people, worrying about having my AMVs stolen on YouTube is not really practical. I'm more concerned about people sending stolen videos to contests, and I've had that happen too.

I barely use YouTube as it is. Surprisingly, only for MLP episodes, the rare music video, and when someone links something in #amv, otherwise I don't visit the site much at all.
trythil wrote:YouTube has some serious weaknesses as a community and archive for AMVs. Or, for that matter, any focus on video-oriented communities.
Concurred. But that isn't what YouTube was designed to be, regardless of their sad attempts to promote creativity. It's all about consumption. Passive consumption.
These weaknesses are:
  • There's no promotion of a community as a whole; all you get is a comment feed. Only a small number of people at the top get any sort of significant exposure. You'll find communities based around YouTube channels in e.g. Skype chat rooms, but you won't find anything that ties them together aside from other scattered channels.
  • Automated takedown and banning systems. These make establishing any sort of long-term presentation of AMVs impossible. Making additional accounts on YouTube to get around this is a standard practice, but it's also batshit insane.
  • Automated advertising systems. This isn't quite as bad as takedowns, but it's still annoying.
All reasons I decided not to return to YouTube. Ultimately, making additional accounts paints a target on your back. If you continue to persist, eventually you're going to show up on the system as a high profile infringer. A note too, it wasn't the record labels that got me banned. It was Ghibli. And I live in Japan. And our copyright laws just got stricter. I have legitimate concerns about getting into real trouble here, because I'm dealing with copyrighted material in the country of origin where, since I live here, I am directly subject to the laws in question.
The .org has done a very poor job in demonstrating the impact of those problems for AMVers and that it has remedies for those problems.
The Org has done a very poor job of advertising itself as a place where these problems are remedied. I take partial blame for this, as I was part of a movement which was very concerned about the explosive growth of the Org around 2004-2006. I think many of us from the first generation were very concerned with making so much noise that we attracted too much attention and found ourselves in real trouble.

This viewpoint no longer applies. We are much too small of a fish in a much, much expanded pond of possible copyright infringement because of widespread video upload sites like YouTube and Vimeoh, and streaming sites like LiveStream, SlipstreamTV, etc. For a few years, we were the monolith which rose out of chaotic AMV distribution modes, mostly ftp servers, studio websites, basic peer to peer like morpheus, kazaa, winmx, and of course, at convention DVD/CD hand offs.

Now, the landscape has broken down again into chaos. Multiple international sites, the video upload sites, and plenty of us still have fservs, ftps, and studio websites. Our original mission to catalog all AMVs ever is dead. Has been dead for years now. However, I think we can agree that there is a new mission, which involves a much general higher quality of AMVs catalogued and stored here, as well as the community which generates that higher quality.
Here's how I think .org can remedy the above problems:
  • It's much easier to promote a sense of a single community when you limit your focus. The Lip Flapper, active twitter feed, Facebook page, and site contests are an excellent start. I'm working on technical mechanisms to give those and similar activities more impact, e.g. real-time listings of active forum topics and new page layouts that give contests and special events enormous amounts of room on a page.
I'd like to see the return of Review, but frankly, I'm going to need a wider variety of possible moderators. I can't run it alone.
[*] .org is a smaller target. YouTube has automated takedown systems and has to deal with tons of takedown notifications/counter-notifications a day. .org has had to deal with, uh, a few. (AFAIK, the only one that was made public is the Wind-Up Records issue.)
Concurred, which is why my own fear of reprisal has very much altered over the last few years. We simply aren't worth it.
[*] .org can be reengineered to provide durability for videos. That's actually where a lot of my .org-related work has gone over the past couple months: devising a system that can keep serving videos even in the face of takedowns by distributing the .org database and application code across multiple locations and owners. Takedown is like unrecoverable object loss, and an event like FBI shutdown is really not much different than catastrophic hardware failure. There's technical measures to deal with both. (Now, technical measures alone won't get us to a point where AMVs are out of legal limbo, but they're needed to keep on the pressure to effect the social and legal changes to protect AMVs.)[/list]
I'd like to see this, but I'd also like to hear the admins chime on this. They are historically a very conservative bunch, and this is a fairly significant paradigm shift. One I agree with, and I think is only logical, but one that might make some of the admins skittish. Not to mention, Phade still casts a very, very long shadow over decisions which fundamentally alter the functioning of the Org, even on the backend. He might not be onboard.
We can advertise these as advantages and (once some more work has been done) demonstrate that we have a better solution than YouTube for AMVs. I think after that word will spread on its own.
How do you suggest advertising in the initial stages?
.org also needs a lot of work to whip it into shape. One concrete example: entering a new video. Do that on YouTube, and then try it on the .org. On YouTube it's a two-step process that you can execute entirely in your web browser. On the .org, it's eight steps -- six in your browser, one in an FTP client, and another step back in your web browser. It's a lot of obstacles for no goddamn reason.
Are you at all concerned that will open the floodgates and impact not only quality (which you addressed), but also cost?
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Re: How has the AMV landscape changed?

Post by Kionon » Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:48 pm

MimS wrote:Stop complaining about having your AMVs stolen, you're not the ones who made the animes so basically we're all thieves.
(On another but still related subject : that's pretty much why I don't want to win any money from this hobby thanks to contests or else 'cause I use a work that isn't mine.)
Do not concur with this. Transformative, derivative works are not theft. This is especially why we strongly encourage the purchase of all source material. I didn't steal. I bought copies of the sources. My works are there to express fandom and creativity and to enhance the experiences surrounding the original sources. They are not there to serve as a substitute, and they certainly are not there to make personal profit for myself.
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Re: How has the AMV landscape changed?

Post by Kionon » Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:55 pm

Case in point:

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