AMV Song Check

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AMV Song Check

Postby gotegenks » Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:17 pm

so i want to have a place to go to to find out if a song has already been done extreme justice, because with some popular music it's not exactly helpful to search the org as you get a million pieces of crap that COULD have a gem in it but you never know, and youtube is a whole other story, not to mention those search functions can't take into account the tastes of the current community. also maybe wanna help cut down on the amount of videos using the same sources as possible, though this may encourage it as i see a lot of people "inspired by" such and such video to do the exact same video only much worse...

so post a song you might wanna use or are just curious about and as you're scrolling through the replies see if you know any amvs with songs that others are asking about. youtube or Org links, doesn't matter.

so anyway, is there already a good video with....loser by beck?. i have a hunch there is considering how ultra mega popular it is (fyi, just curious about this one, probably won't be editing it anytime soon)
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Re: AMV Song Check

Postby Phantasmagoriat » Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:24 am

gotegenks wrote:so i want to have a place to go to to find out if a song has already been done extreme justice
you know, I always wished there was a system where trusted users could flag AMVs as something worth watching. Sorry I can't help you in this particular case though :(

But how bout: Linkin Park: In The End

/classic
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Re: AMV Song Check

Postby JudgeHolden » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:00 am

Phantasmagoriat wrote:
gotegenks wrote:so i want to have a place to go to to find out if a song has already been done extreme justice
you know, I always wished there was a system where trusted users could flag AMVs as something worth watching. Sorry I can't help you in this particular case though :(

But how bout: Linkin Park: In The End

/classic


I know right? I mean, like a star system that goes from like 1-5, with 5 being the best ... Maybe we should add that to the site upgrade wishlist? :wink:
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Re: AMV Song Check

Postby Kevmaster » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:04 am

We should change that to :up: and :down: like that other awesome video-website Image
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Re: AMV Song Check

Postby gotegenks » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:34 am

JudgeHolden wrote:
Phantasmagoriat wrote:
gotegenks wrote:so i want to have a place to go to to find out if a song has already been done extreme justice
you know, I always wished there was a system where trusted users could flag AMVs as something worth watching. Sorry I can't help you in this particular case though :(

But how bout: Linkin Park: In The End

/classic


I know right? I mean, like a star system that goes from like 1-5, with 5 being the best ... Maybe we should add that to the site upgrade wishlist? :wink:

how exactly is that a good flagging system?
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Re: AMV Song Check

Postby Phantasmagoriat » Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:59 pm

Well, the current star system can only do so much because it weighs everyone's opinions equally. And I know people are gonna hate me for saying this, but: not everyone's opinion is trustworthy, which is why I brought up the idea of a separate rating system from trusted users. In the end it might make a difference, or not, and it perpetuates the air of elitism we got going on, but it would serve as another way to separate the bad videos from the ones that are actually worth your time. Then again, as we've seen in the past comparing the VCA's to the JCA's, it doesn't make too much of a difference, so maybe the whole idea is just an illusion... yet I wonder sometimes.

But back to the original topic, I was thinking more like a system that recognizes when a popular song is used, and gives you the opportunity to answer a set of questions like:
    "Is this the best AMV using this song?" then offer suggestions
    "Is this the best AMV in the Action genre?" then offer suggestions
    "Is this the best AMV using this Anime?" then offer suggestions
    etc...

So, I think that would do what this thread is trying to accomplish. Although it would probably be a bitch to code something like that, and the coders probably have enough on their plates right now. But I can dream.
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Re: AMV Song Check

Postby Arigatomina » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:31 pm

I think the super search works fine for this. Maybe that's because my tastes fit in with the average viewer. If I'm looking for older good vids, I sort by ops given. People rarely give those anymore, so to be fair to newer vids, I also sort by stars.

I tried it with "In the end" just to make sure it still works. With ops, Dark Kamui's "Vegeta" was one of the top vids. That's still my favorite, so good job Super Search. For stars, the top vid was by Zarxrax. I've never watched that vid, but I know that name, so it's probably a good one.

Now, for people who aren't me, just pick which of those vids you like better. If you prefer the old DBZ vid, sort by ops. If you prefer Zarxrax's, sort by stars. If you like them both, use both and compare the top results. Either way, the best vids *should* be at the top of lists sorted by stars and/or ops.

For those who really want something outside the "popular opinion", there are plenty of recommended viewing lists. Or just pick your favorite editor and ask him which vid he thinks is best for that song. Maybe after putting some thought into it, he'll make an entire list of favorites to share with anyone else who might want his opinion.

[And just in case this thread inspires a suggestion that gets reposted/moved down below:

Anyone remember the karma system? You 'plus' people whose opinion you respect? And with those pluses counted as 'points', it would be easy to have a sorting option in super search that makes your karma'd people's scores count more than those who have low karma. If personalizing people's karma based off your own scores is too difficult, then you just take the total karma score and make them count more for everyone - if their opinions count more as well, even the top ten lists could be more useful. And knowing their scores, they'd have more reason to throw their weight around by opping vids. Or maybe it would be better if karma scores aren't known to the individuals... Either way, it would be nice.

Or we could have a new 'admin' type role where a few members go around scoring vids on their own little elite scoring system, and people can sort according to *that* system if they want to ignore popular opinion altogether. Let people volunteer for it, have an anonymous vote to see who wins, and then set them to work making a "non-fan" scoring list. I suggest that list be a donator-only sorting function, though. If our elitist editors won't donate to get what they asked for, then they don't deserve it. Right? ;p ]
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Re: AMV Song Check

Postby Phantasmagoriat » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:50 pm

@Arigatomina: I actually like the Karma system; but only if karma isn't publicly known. In that way, you won't have people trying to collect karma to make it to the top of the list; that way, people will realize their *contributions* make a difference; so they don't try to sway the numbers themselves (for ratings and such).

EDIT:
and yes, I realize this thread is getting a bit derailed, so: Thousand Foot Krutch - Phenomenon
I bring this up because I distinctly remember when Hagaren Viper's Digital Phenomenon came out after I had already seen Sierra Lorna's Phenomenon (Open Your Soul), so I had a different frame of reference at that time, a different "Grok" so to speak. Yet now, I have a hard time figuring out which one I would get people to watch for the first time, especially from the perspective of someone who hasn't seen an AMV with this song before, or if they really like Naruto or Digimon.
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Re: AMV Song Check

Postby EvaFan » Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:35 am

star system isn't good at all because its forced. You either rate or at some point you cant watch videos and there are people who don't care to rate, just want to watch videos. Lets give all the videos i still have to rate a 3 cause I cant be bothered to watch them all and rate again.

Honestly a :up: or :down: system is best because even if they are forced, its just either you like it or you dont not pick the middle because you dont care. I never understood being forced in the first place, cause even with the up or down system someone could just put all ups or all downs all the times because of being forced and not caring enough to take it seriously. I'd rather know if somone liked the video enough to rate it up or didn't like it enough and rated it down more than what someone thought of a vid between 1-5. Numbers should be left to opinions.
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Re: AMV Song Check

Postby gotegenks » Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:46 am

^i think the admins like the site's archaism too much to become more like youtube or facebook. :eyeroll:

just kidding, i agree, 1-5 (or 1-10 i should say) is only meaninful to me on ops anyway, so ups and downs will be good for just passersby. but i don't think it'd be too much of an issue to have it forced with a simple up/down system. I think 1-5 just takes a liiiiiiiiiiiiittle bit too much thought for everyone to do it consistently, but everyone usually already knows which side of the spectrum they wanna rate, either 1-3 or 3-5, it's just the second decision that just makes me go "eeehh, *click out*" especially if it's a 1-3 vid, but i don't think it'd be an issue to upvote or downvote during or right after the video, but it may be a good idea to tell people in a subtle way that it's mandatory because i don't always like or dislike youtube videos where it's NOT mandatory (and this is on amvs as well, not just random videos)

GOOD LORD THIS THREAD'S OFFTOPIC.

phan, i didn't know that digimon vid even existed. videos using phenomenon sometimes pop up on youtube using a shonen jump anime and it's almost as laughable as if they used in the end these days, but that was pretty good. i don't really know of any others with it that don't suck. there was this crappy KH one i used to love but it didn't age well and i was under the influence of bad editing, i wish i could find it though...memories...
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Re: AMV Song Check

Postby Phantasmagoriat » Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:21 pm

@gotegenks: yeah, I remember the good ol' days when videos with bad editing still left a shining impression on me. It's hard to go back to those times, but sometimes it can happen; where a video just has so much heart that you can't help but ignore all the imperfections.

But back on topic >.> :ying:

There have actually been studies showing that numeric ratings do more damage than good.
I can't remember the exact study off the top of my head, but it went like this:

    Three sets of students took a test:
      -Group A was given numeric grades and comments/feedback
      -Group B was given numeric grades only
      -Group C was given comments/feedback only

    In future tests:
      -Group A showed no improvement
      -Group B showed no improvement
      -Group C showed strong improvement

So, to sum up: Ratings are dumb, because people just look for the numbers, and ignore any comments/feedback provided.
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Re: AMV Song Check

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:20 pm

What if the ratings weren't created for the creator's benefit? What if they were for the general community's benefit - so they'd know which videos were collectively agreed upon as worth their time and bandwidth to bother watching? :amv:
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Re: AMV Song Check

Postby Phantasmagoriat » Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:20 pm

Ha! someone pointed it out!

I realize that's a pretty big flaw in the idea, but at the same time I think it's possible to create a comment/karma system that helps both the creator and viewer. Yes, it would involve upvotes for videos/comments, but if someone leaves a comment on a video, and people agree with the comment, that person's comment all of the sudden becomes worth more; which helps viewers find videos that are worth watching. And the more people leave comments, the more people actually discuss a video, so the more everyone gets to the actual truth about said video; which helps the editor. The only thing I'm not sure about is making the upvotes publicly known.

But as a viewer, I would rather have suggestions offered to me than a rating lists to browse through. Because if I have a rating list --and a lot of the ones at the top suck-- it deters me from watching the rest. If I simply have suggestions offered to me without ratings, I end up spending more time actually watching videos, and coming up with my own judgement, instead of deciding which video I should watch next, and being swayed by the popular vote (in the positive or negative direction :uhoh: )... which leads to being jaded, and never taking a chance to watch another AMV again. And if I still can't find anything I like, it's time to take the next steps: leaving a comment, or making my own videos. That way, I still have power in the system; instead of letting the system tell me what I like/should like.

So, comments and anonymous karma (upvotes) seem like the way to go IMO.
But hey... isn't that similar to a certain popular website? I can't quite put my finger on it...
Naww... it's not like they would have put any thought into their rating system...

(sorry, I don't mean to be sarcastic, but I don't think anyone should feel bad about copying a good system; although implementing said system is another issue.)

So, back to your original question Bashar: I agree that we need a system for finding good video; but I don't think we need to rely on numeric ratings.
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Re: AMV Song Check

Postby Hagaren Viper » Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:40 am

Gote, does this happen to be the KH Phenomenon vid you saw?



I remember first running into this one...good times.
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Re: AMV Song Check

Postby gotegenks » Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:06 am

no it wasn't, but that ones kinda cool lol, although this was either a huge rip of, or hugely ripped by the video i'm thinking of. inclined to think the former as the one i'm thinking of was made by the closest thing to a legend the kh community had (pwilliard in case you've heard of him), and not that he was that amazing but he was SUPER freaking popular and everyone knew and looked up to him as an editor. it has like all the same effects and similar scene selection to it...

i'm really inclined to go on an all-day expedition to try and find it now...
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