I just have to know...

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Re: I just have to know...

Postby JaddziaDax » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:12 pm

Because we have nothing else to talk about aside from griping about those who can't take criticism, constructive or otherwise.
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Re: I just have to know...

Postby gotegenks » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:12 pm

What I wanna know is why this thread is already FIVE pages long.
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Re: I just have to know...

Postby Enigma » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:14 pm

JaddziaDax wrote:Because we have nothing else to talk about aside from griping about those who can't take criticism, constructive or otherwise.

That's more so been the deal in this and many other communities since..ever
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Re: I just have to know...

Postby Leader Desslock » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:51 pm

It would be far longer, had Tailmon (a sock puppet of a terrible writer, ex-mod and bitter old hagtroll on AN) not prudently opted to stop trolling me here. Her nonsensical ramblings are easy enough to deflect, but she does tend to increase the page count when she decides to go off on a tear.

I had expected more people to pick apart the parody of The Grinch to which I linked earlier (page 2?), simply because my harsh critical stance on AMVs has begged for karmic retribution. I don't care one way or the other - I'm personally happy with the way the piece came out, and that's all that matters to me. I enjoyed writing it; I don't care if anyone reads it, although I do enjoy sharing it with the folks I know will get a kick out of it.

Ah, well. This thread has served its purpose for me (in conjunction with the subsequent response on AN), so I'm happy.
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Re: I just have to know...

Postby TEKnician » Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:08 am

Leader Desslock wrote:I don't care one way or the other...I don't care if anyone reads it

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Re: I just have to know...

Postby Leader Desslock » Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:55 am

^ Nah, I just tossed it out there in order to shut down the "oh, sure you can GIVE criticism, but you couldn't TAKE it" argument.

I write a lot, but I think that's the only thing I ever posted at AN.
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Re: I just have to know...

Postby Tailmon » Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:45 am

Leader Desslock wrote:It would be far longer, had Tailmon (a sock puppet of a terrible writer, ex-mod and bitter old hagtroll on AN) not prudently opted to stop trolling me here. Her nonsensical ramblings are easy enough to deflect, but she does tend to increase the page count when she decides to go off on a tear.

I had expected more people to pick apart the parody of The Grinch to which I linked earlier (page 2?), simply because my harsh critical stance on AMVs has begged for karmic retribution. I don't care one way or the other - I'm personally happy with the way the piece came out, and that's all that matters to me. I enjoyed writing it; I don't care if anyone reads it, although I do enjoy sharing it with the folks I know will get a kick out of it.

Ah, well. This thread has served its purpose for me (in conjunction with the subsequent response on AN), so I'm happy.



It's the other way if you ask me. I hope you got your jollies and now consider yourself far superior to others as usual/
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Re: I just have to know...

Postby EvaFan » Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:34 am

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"The people cannot be [...] always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to [...] the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to public liberty. What country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not warned [...] that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants."-Thomas Jefferson
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Re: I just have to know...

Postby Leader Desslock » Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:38 pm

Here's a question for the group, based on a tangent thread over on AN:

Do you think that a critic needs to be able to work in the medium personally, in order to give constructive critical feedback of the work? Or do you think that it's possible for a critic to give constructive feedback simply by pointing out what he thinks is good or bad, and supporting his opinion with examples and sound argument?

On of my fellow writers on AN (and IMHO, our best artist) mentioned that one of the reasons AMV creators on AN might not be too receptive to my critical comments is that I personally lack the credibility to critique their work, not having made an AMV myself. I disagreed with this analysis, for several reasons. Several other creative types on AN (one of whom used to make AMVs) also disagreed. In keeping with this thread's tradition of sharing interesting points back and forth, I figured I'd toss it over here.

Do you think that you have to make AMVs to effectively criticize them? Why or why not?
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Re: I just have to know...

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:20 am

I wouldn't say you have to have made one, but it certainly enhances your credibility. Sufficient academic (or, even better, professional) knowledge of the constitute parts of the hobby also helps. Having neither is problematic. Part of knowing what the fuck you're talking about is actually knowing what the fuck you're talking about after all. Quite a large part, in fact.
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Re: I just have to know...

Postby JaddziaDax » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:36 am

I think in general most people in a hobby respond better to other people who are in the hobby as well, however that also depends on the person and their experience and how the feedback is delivered.

I find that feedback from someone who knows what they are doing to be a little more valuable especially when it comes to timing and sync (because they know how an editing program works). However, I think a viewer (only) can have some important things to say, especially when it comes to more subjective things like mood in order to get a feeling of what a general audience will respond to.

I don't think you need to be an editor to point out flaws such as "you left subtitles in", because anyone can see that. However, it's always helpful to have reason to back that up, such as "the anime community is one who is used to automatically reading subtitles, so they really distract from your video when you leave them in. If you want people to focus on your work more than the subtitles, then you should either crop them off, or get a clean source footage".

Of course if I get feedback from an editor I respect I'll take it a lot more seriously than I would some random person who doesn't edit.
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Re: I just have to know...

Postby Castor Troy » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:15 am

Leader Desslock wrote:Here's a question for the group, based on a tangent thread over on AN:

Do you think that a critic needs to be able to work in the medium personally, in order to give constructive critical feedback of the work? Or do you think that it's possible for a critic to give constructive feedback simply by pointing out what he thinks is good or bad, and supporting his opinion with examples and sound argument?

On of my fellow writers on AN (and IMHO, our best artist) mentioned that one of the reasons AMV creators on AN might not be too receptive to my critical comments is that I personally lack the credibility to critique their work, not having made an AMV myself. I disagreed with this analysis, for several reasons. Several other creative types on AN (one of whom used to make AMVs) also disagreed. In keeping with this thread's tradition of sharing interesting points back and forth, I figured I'd toss it over here.

Do you think that you have to make AMVs to effectively criticize them? Why or why not?


No.

Anyone regardless of making them or not has every bit of credibility to criticize an amv. Blaming someone's criticism of an amv due to "lack of credentials" is one of the most cop out defense mechanisms anyone can give.

I don't make video games, but I feel that I can effectively criticize them.
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Re: I just have to know...

Postby irriadin » Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:45 am

JaddziaDax wrote:...if I get feedback from an editor I respect I'll take it a lot more seriously than I would some random person who doesn't edit.


This, pretty much. You don't have to edit to make a convincing critique, but it certainly does add (a lot of) credibility to your argument.
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Re: I just have to know...

Postby Qyot27 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:30 pm

Castor Troy wrote:I don't make video games, but I feel that I can effectively criticize them.

This touches on it. There are places where feedback from anyone is valid - playing a video game gives you the ability to criticize because you are still engaging with it. But on the same token, unless you have the ability to actually read and write the code the game runs on, you wouldn't be in the position to criticize the programming work that lies underneath unless it interfered with the playing experience. You'd have no way of knowing if the code was sloppy unless you could actually read it or it had some visible effect on the player side (like crashing).

In the same way, there would logically be [plausibly, three] types of criticism that exist for AMVs or other types of media (like cinema):
1) Flaws that have nothing to do with the technical work behind it at all and that anyone could comment on; stuff like mood, clear storytelling, or maybe pacing.
2) Some types of technical flaws that anyone could point out, like the presence of subtitles or really bad compression.
3) Advanced types of flaws that need either professional instruction to recognize or at least lots of experience and self-study of the medium to build one's credibility first. Masking errors, orphan frames, filtering errors, more advanced compression issues, aspect ratio problems, or so on. Many of these might be noticeable to Type 2, but Type 3 can actually articulate what the problem is and how to fix it. You also get branching and specialization here - one can be very precise in the editing phase but still be learning how to compress and filter properly.

Type 3 is the only one where actually being in the field matters, but as noted, if you have sufficiently advanced knowledge in the theories behind it you don't necessarily need working experience of it. There's plenty of Type 3 film critics that have never made a movie, but they have spent a large amount of time absorbing theory and observing the advice of professionals that were directed at others' attempts.

I note Type 3 because there are at least a few editors around here that didn't start editing (or still haven't started editing) until they possessed Type 3-level theoretical knowledge, and would comment on others' videos just from the perspective of a viewer that had spent lots of time devoted to it even if they'd never opened an NLE before. Usually if they do start editing they also avoid lots of the newbie mistakes, but it doesn't make them totally immune since a lot of editing is personal style and comfort with the editing program, and that's something that takes learning.
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Re: I just have to know...

Postby Beowulf » Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:17 pm

:aimkissyface:
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