What is the org doing wrong?

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Re: What is the org doing wrong?

Postby Zarxrax » Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:07 pm

Points brought up in the thread are why I have decided to learn PHP, MYSQL, Javascript, etc, so I can help reprogram the site.
It's actually a lot easier to learn than I thought it would be.

/passive encouragement for others to learn as well
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Re: What is the org doing wrong?

Postby kireblue » Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:34 pm

dokidoki wrote:
godix wrote:Kill the log in requirement for previews.

Then everyone will just watch videos logged out so they don't have to give them a star rating.
(For the moment I'm not saying whether mandatory stars are good or bad, just trying to illustrate a consequence of the decision)

instead of having star ratings be mandatory, how about making it optional, and giving people incentives to give them. One incentive could be having a star rating leaderdoard similar to the "most useful" leaderboard. Right now, I can't think of any other incentives though.
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Re: What is the org doing wrong?

Postby Castor Troy » Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:48 pm

I think we should start running polls on the main page asking stuff like "Do you use mac or pc, Do you use Premiere, Vegas, etc".

It would be a lot easier to cater to everyone's needs.
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Re: What is the org doing wrong?

Postby Pwolf » Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:01 pm

The problem stems from everything we've been saying in the State of the Org thread. The org isn't a place to watch videos, it's a catalog and the design of the website is focused on that aspect more then anything else. amvnews is a distribution site for amvs, so you're most likely going to get more views.
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Re: What is the org doing wrong?

Postby Kai Stromler » Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:04 pm

Because my customer hasn't called into the meeting yet, I was able to take an actual real look at the main-site interface. Raise your hand if you were previously aware that there are 46 separate options available under the collapsable headers in the members menu. After I get home I'll followup/edit this with a proposed rework that gets this down to 30 in case the redesign team hasn't yet looked at this in detail, plus some other suggestions. The comments relating to community dynamics are probably more important to what the .org is "doing wrong", but if you're not familiar with it already, the main site design is not helping a whole lot.

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Re: What is the org doing wrong?

Postby godix » Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:14 pm

Pwolf wrote:The problem stems from everything we've been saying in the State of the Org thread. The org isn't a place to watch videos, it's a catalog and the design of the website is focused on that aspect more then anything else. amvnews is a distribution site for amvs, so you're most likely going to get more views.

The org WAS a catalog. Should it still be? Because, honestly, other than the language barriers can you think of a single reason a new editor would want to come here instead of other sites devoted to AMVs that will give their editing more attention?

And yeah, I know this is kinda a duplication of State of the Org. But state of the org didn't seem overly focused on a specific subject, while this thread is specifically about editors, how much attention their editing gets, how to increase that, and if increasing that is something the org should even try doing.
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Re: What is the org doing wrong?

Postby JaddziaDax » Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:52 pm

I would like to keep star ratings but i think it would be cool if they weren't mandatory.

The complaints I usually hear about the org are these:
1. elitism, bashing, and general reputation stuff.
2. "people will steal my video and upload it to youtube!" in other words streaming only = better
3. uploading is haaaaaaaaaaaaaard :(
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Re: What is the org doing wrong?

Postby Pwolf » Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:16 pm

JaddziaDax wrote:I would like to keep star ratings but i think it would be cool if they weren't mandatory.

The complaints I usually hear about the org are these:
1. elitism, bashing, and general reputation stuff.
2. "people will steal my video and upload it to youtube!" in other words streaming only = better
3. uploading is haaaaaaaaaaaaaard :(


1. We strive for excellence, it's not our fault
2. They'll only steal if it's good, take it as a compliment... beside, youtube is lame
3. The method used for uploading on this website has been in use for 20+ years, how can it be that hard?

Joking aside, on a more serious note regarding #3, I've released a program a while back that makes uploading to the org extremely easy: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=97027

Copy and paste connection string into text box, browse for video, upload. after its done it takes you the confirmation page. cake.
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Re: What is the org doing wrong?

Postby post-it » Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:27 pm

people stealing my video .. ?again? .. look, people, every frame of every video can be encoded
with the users name/I.D.#/time/date/blood type .. its not that hard and its extremely hard to
locate ( which means that other video editors will just pass the info along with the video to
the finished encode where; WE can nab the little crook and kill them like you would any other thief. )
.. its not rocket-science!
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Re: What is the org doing wrong?

Postby Mastamind » Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:19 pm

I honestly don't see why this is a surprise to anybody. The org just lacks the interactivity present in akross and especially amvnews, and that's the reason their popularity has gone up while the org has gone down. AMVnews has contests, polls, reviews etc. that keeps the community active and encourages editing/serious critique. The org is way more editor-orientated and although that may set a high standard, it's got a negative impact for viewers.

godix wrote:However, despite these suggestions, I think a large part is simply the community.

This was my impression as well. I also uploaded my last video to amvnews, where it had a couple of pages of comments by the first day; I announced it here and I've gotten five replies after several days (no ops, no qcs). The same happened for my previous video where I didn't even upload it to amvnews, and it's gotten many more replies and thousands more views there than on the org. I'll admit I'm guilty of commenting less on videos I download than I used to, but... it just sucks how the org is a such great resource for high-quality videos but not for the appreciation of those videos :|

Of course the site itself contributes to the problem, if we're looking to reach for the more casual viewer then the whole "login to view a video" thing should disappear. I don't care for youtube, I hardly ever visit it anymore, but if someone wants a link to one of my videos I will give them the one on youtube. Nobody's going to create an account just to watch a video, and that's a shame because being able to download a video as a guest would only attract more members. Not that I think this system will actually be changed.

In the end, it's all just a matter of how much we're willing to cater to the general crowd as opposed to a smaller group. tl;dr maybe, but I'm not an established member of either particular amv community so I hope I'm providing a more objectice viewpoint here. :up:
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Re: What is the org doing wrong?

Postby Nya-chan Production » Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:25 pm

Mastamind wrote:I don't care for youtube, I hardly ever visit it anymore, but if someone wants a link to one of my videos I will give them the one on youtube. Nobody's going to create an account just to watch a video, and that's a shame because being able to download a video as a guest would only attract more members. Not that I think this system will actually be changed.

I give them the link to Org. If they don't know about it I present my utter amazement upon their lack of knowledge.
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Re: What is the org doing wrong?

Postby Ikore » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:14 pm

As my noobness allow me to understand, I guess this site, more than a viewer or catalog, is mean to form a community

as example, I was watching this amv of megamom, it was posted in amvnew around 6 months later, yet the difference in votes is almost x10, 2556 on org and 206 on amvnews...

http://amvnews.ru/index.php?go=Files&in ... 81&page=75

now with a recent one, 453 org, 203 amv news

http://amvnews.ru/index.php?go=Files&in=view&id=2496

another fact, here on the org you will get contact directly with the editor, him/herself will be announcing his/her video, and obviusly posted here first and then you watch it on amvnews, and as a part of small hispanic community "ZonaAMV", I remember when I show a friend his page on amvnews, and he was "cool, I didn´t knew it" :|

what I think is bad with org is this:
Mastamind wrote:I also uploaded my last video to amvnews, where it had a couple of pages of comments by the first day; I announced it here and I've gotten five replies after several days (no ops, no qcs).

well if you want view you got boochsack( Akross is extremely popular there), if you want feedback come to the org... but is this community actually giving some?

Im a rookie editor, it may take some videos to reach a page on amvnews or try to strike into a real con, in youtube im totally non-existence, and here, I have obtain a lot more of information, tips and ideas than in anywhere else, so we should try to keep that, to actually teach how to do nice shit :up: and provide feedback or at least some :up:
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Re: What is the org doing wrong?

Postby godix » Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:54 am

Ikore wrote:<a class="linkification-ext" href="http://amvnews.ru/index.php?go=Files&in=view&id=1681&page=75" title="Linkification: http://amvnews.ru/index.php?go=Files&in ... 81&page=75">http://amvnews.ru/index.php?go=Files&in=view&id=1681&page=75</a>

now with a recent one, 453 org, 203 amv news

<a class="linkification-ext" href="http://amvnews.ru/index.php?go=Files&in=view&id=2496" title="Linkification: http://amvnews.ru/index.php?go=Files&in=view&id=2496">http://amvnews.ru/index.php?go=Files&in=view&id=2496</a>

Thank you. I actually looked for some counter examples, but every vid I saw that was on both the org and amvnews did far better on amvnews. So it's nice to know there are some that do better on the org.


As for the rest of the comments, guys, keep in mind I am specifically talking about why AKROSS/amvnews seem to get more views on videos, although apparently there are counterexamples. I'm not talking about why editors won't join the org or upload to it. That conversation has been had before, but I don't really recall anyone talking about it from the perspective of editors who are already on the org and how to bring more focus on their videos.
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Re: What is the org doing wrong?

Postby Pwolf » Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:20 am

godix wrote:...how to bring more focus on their videos.


I gave up on trying to bring more focus to my videos a long time ago. I'm not Koopiskeva or Ileia or Nostromo, or Vlad or Tim or <insert name of really good editors>. I'm not going to generate a 7 page thread just because I put my name on it. and i'm not going to get a ton of hits in one day. Those editors don't get the high post counts or hits because of the org. They get them because they are on a level where a larger number people actively look for their work. I'm just "pwolf" i don't get high post counts, i hardly even get replies from my friends. To me it's not a big deal because I know how the website works and the answer to your question is that the website just doesn't operate on the same level as AMVNews. They are two completely different websites designed around two different things. As i've mentioned before, this website focuses on/is designed around the data, not the content. While the content is there, it's hidden under layers of data.

The org is 10+ years old now? AMVnews is how old? 4 or 5 years at most? The process to distribute videos when the org was made was one of two options: 1) burn it to a cd and hand it out or 2) pay a lot of money for private hosting. When AMVNews came around, the availability of cheap storage was abundant and video streaming technology made distribution so much easier and quicker. The org was designed without distribution in mind because it wasn't something that could be made available. Yes, we have storage and streaming now but the website never changed it's focus on the data. those were just extra things attached to the website. AMVNews was built when it was possible to do those things so it was built with that in mind. So why does it seem like videos on AMVNews are getting more hits? Because its the way the website was designed to operate. It's designed to get people to watch videos. The org is designed to get people to click through several pages and read stuff before they click through more pages before they can watch videos.
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Re: What is the org doing wrong?

Postby godix » Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:38 am

Pwolf wrote:I gave up on trying to bring more focus to my videos a long time ago. I'm not Koopiskeva or Ileia or Nostromo, or Vlad or Tim or <insert name of really good editors>. I'm not going to generate a 7 page thread just because I put my name on it. and i'm not going to get a ton of hits in one day.

Keep in mind that I am, essentially, the same as you on this. I'm not an uber-popular editor and never will be. If anything, you're probably more known for your videos than me. I'm known for my forum persona, not for my videos. Yet my first post were examples of my own videos and how other sites have gotten them seen far more often than the org has. This isn't about the insanely popular editors. This isn't about racking up tens of thousands of views. This is about why the AVERAGE editor is lucky to get more than 100 people watching, and the middle tier (you and me) only get a few hundred. Koop doesn't need anything different to get his videos seen, you and I do. Even more than us though, the people who just upload and never ever take part in the community do. While the creed of do amvs because you like them is fine, and I strongly agree with it, admit it, it'd be nice if your vid on a worldwide website could get more views than it would if shown on public access cable.

As i've mentioned before, this website focuses on/is designed around the data, not the content. While the content is there, it's hidden under layers of data.
. . .
So why does it seem like videos on AMVNews are getting more hits? Because its the way the website was designed to operate. It's designed to get people to watch videos. The org is designed to get people to click through several pages and read stuff before they click through more pages before they can watch videos.

The org is currently going through a re-design. I know, it will take awhile, but still, now is the time to toss out ideas on what the org SHOULD be. Personally, I think it should be about AMVs, which means letting people watch them easily and letting editors get their work seen. If the org as it is now doesn't encourage that, then that is what I'd like to see the re-design change. Perhaps it's time to dig the content out from under the layer, it's been hiding long enough.
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