How To Review

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How To Review

Postby Fall_Child42 » Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:26 pm

After watching a certain documentary about hecklers and their relation to critics and I began to think about how we here on the org review things.

People here are often complaining about a lack of constructive criticism, and just poorly written reviews. If there is a good way and a bad way to write reviews what differentiates the good from bad?

The good and bad does not refer to the reviewer's feelings towards the video, but instead to the quality of the critique. People should feel free to dislike a video but the dislike for a video often turns out very poorly written. I've often seen negative reviews devolve into personal attacks that have nothing to do with the video itself. Sometimes the negative reviews are trying to point out flaws but they are just filled with such hatred, ire, and vitriol, that any constructiveness is lost. Many reviews take the arrogant stance that that person's opinion on the video should be everyone's opinion on the video, as if this person quantifiably knows what is or is not entertaining. In reality they only know what is or is not entertaining for them. These ways of critiquing a video do not help anything and are what I think people mean by a "bad review"

A good review should say what the person thought about the video, what they specifically liked or didn't like, and should not use unnecessarily harsh language or personal attacks.

The problem with me laying out these Ideas is that they are basic guidelines and still nobody knows what a good review or a bad review looks like. I am a very big fan of teaching through examples, and what I'd like to happen in this thread is for people to take a video, post it, and write what they may consider a bad review, and one they may consider a good review.

If we can gather several examples of what a good critique might look like and show these to other people perhaps there will be less poorly written critiques out there.
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Re: How To Review

Postby godix » Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:38 pm

Before we argue on how to review, shouldn't we actually review stuff? "Your momma sucks dick" is not a review. Neither is "I wanna be in the in crowd so I'll follow everyone else and just post :up:'
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Re: How To Review

Postby Fall_Child42 » Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:45 pm

This is what I'm saying.

:up: :bzz:
(x3)

Should be looked down upon just as much as

"This sucks you should DIAF"

Obviously, they can technically be viewed as "reviews"
as they state an opinion on the video, but they are by no means good in anyway.

I would still love this thread to gain a collection of good reviews.
Perhaps a few for both a good positive critique and a good negative critique.
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Re: How To Review

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:47 pm

Is the idea that you point to this thread for examples when someone gets butthurt over getting a well-written op that tells them their stuff isn't that good? Because telling someone they're wrong and citing examples when they're already in super-defensive mode really won't help, and a fair number of the people that fly off the handle do so over well-written critique that says their vid sucked.

Related - A passive-aggressive veneer of civility is even more infuriating and deliciously subtle. Trolls take note.
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Re: How To Review

Postby Fall_Child42 » Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:11 pm

BasharOfTheAges wrote:Is the idea that you point to this thread for examples when someone gets butthurt over getting a well-written op that tells them their stuff isn't that good? Because telling someone they're wrong and citing examples when they're already in super-defensive mode really won't help, and a fair number of the people that fly off the handle do so over well-written critique that says their vid sucked.


This is where a good writer has to be careful, just because you didn't like it doesn't mean they are wrong.

But to answer your question, I envisioned this thread as more of a pre-emptive thing, examples to show what good critiques and reviews look like, something people should consider before they write their Op, QC, Announcement reply, etc.
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Re: How To Review

Postby Infinity Squared » Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:17 pm

In the interest of not singling out anyone else, I’ve reviewed one of my videos which I’ve always considered probably my worst (uploaded). I won’t profess to say that I’m the best reviewer in the world, but I do work for ANN as one of the correspondents doing convention reviews and DVD title reviews. But yeah, to the review:


The Bad

Holy crap, that was total epic fail. I mean, for starters, you used the same song as from the anime itself, I mean, only noobs do that. You have so much interlacing and the quality was bad to start with. Like, I know I can do so much better than this even with my eyes closed. You can go watch my other Gundam video so you can see just how it should be done. Anyway, what’s up with the uneven syncing? My dog in tap shoes could hit the beats better than this. And for crying out loud, get the resolution in the right aspect ratio. It’s so obvious you just cropped this shit however you please but you so should freaking learn that you have to follow the right way.

Reason for being bad: The start is not good because from the onset, all it did was create a fully negative tone that’s destined to hurt the creator. The second sentence also crosses the line into a personal attack. The fourth and fifth sentences also then deviate from the actual review itself and the critic focuses on their own “achievements” which are irrelevant or even condescending to the creator. The comment about aspect ratio is also a very rigid/elitist comment that forgets the fact that this is an artistic creation and is not a commissioned work. Overall as well, the fact that far too much of the review is emanating the critic’s personality or personal stance will just make the creator just think even more, “why should I care what this retard says”.

The Good

Good effort on the video! Obviously in the time constraint that you’ve mentioned in your video description, there was bound to be some issues, but at least you’ve completed it and that’s an achievement on its own. Now, to the technical side; the interlacing is quite prevalent and the aspect ratio is non-standard. The quality is also subpar and I’m guessing this was taken from fansub sources. Anyway, these are things to look out for in your next video. There are some excellent guides available on the org that will fix these issues up quite quickly and you can use some filtering as well to improve the quality, but to start with, I recommend that next time you use DVD sources. Lastly, the song choice didn’t work too well for me; that’s just my opinion. I feel that when using the same song from the anime, it comes out as if we’re just watching the anime again and nothing new. Perhaps if you altered the presentation a bit, or more concretely established the style you were after (e.g. like using the song as if you were creating an alternate opening sequence) then it could have worked; just a suggestion.

Reason for being good: Starts off non-threatening. Second paragraph also empathizes with the creator and helps in making them be more absorbing of the comments rather than becoming automatically defensive. Negative points are shown matter-of-factly and did not include any personal feelings or attacks as these things are purely technical and can be fixed (with suggestions on how being offered). Recommendation for fixes also recognise the fact that this is a finished product and that the creator will more than likely not redo this video – this helps in pushing the creator to look at future successes rather than this current failure. In terms of the song choice critique, it’s been strenuously advised that this is just their opinion based on what the critic saw; this stops the creator from thinking the critic is stating global perception of their video and allows them to think that though they may have failed to get the critic’s approval, it’s not a total lost and somebody else out there might like it (which is probabilistically true).

Anyway, this was just a brief showing of what I think would be worth paying attention to in the context of reviews on the AMVs in the org. First and foremost really to me is that if you’re going to review a video, just think about your language (and probably remember back to how you were taught in school). The more you come across as professional in your presentation, the more it’ll be taken seriously; simple fact.
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Re: How To Review

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:21 pm

Dr.Dinosaur wrote:This is where a good writer has to be careful, just because you didn't like it doesn't mean they are wrong.

A mindset of complete subjectiveness, likewise gets you nowhere. Most recognized "good" (pop-culture) critique is written as fact by individuals whose reputations provide requisite assertions of authority to back it up. Opinion as fact by authority through reputation is kinda how the art/music scene works. That's why it's filled with shallow vapid ass kissing fuckwits. It's the primary basis for the study of critique in general though, so what'cha gonna do?

What was the documentary by the way?
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Re: How To Review

Postby CodeZTM » Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:43 pm

I'm pretty sure Infinity wins this thread. Pretty much everything he said was right on the ball.
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Re: How To Review

Postby JaddziaDax » Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:24 am

One of the problems I find with writing a good review often is that it either goes ignored or the person gets butthurt about anything bad being said about their video. This is why I often don't write ops anymore (or even leave much feedback unless I liked the video or they ask me to review).

It's much easier to be precise and to the point in an analytical sort of way. If the person asks for more then I give them more.

Also a lot of people would call Infinity's good review "sugar coated". For some reason rude bluntness seems to be a "good quality" to have when reviewing (which I don't get at all). Just because you aren't rude that doesn't mean you are sugar coating.
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Re: How To Review

Postby CorpseGoddess » Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:53 am

It comes down to the difference between criticism and critique. The first is just being cranky, the second should try to accomplish something constructive.
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Re: How To Review

Postby Athena » Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:28 am

Critique is still criticism. It's just constructive as opposed to destructive. Constrictive criticism instructs with the goal being the improvement of the editor/writer/artist/etc. Destructive criticism does not. I looked around for a video I really found forgettable but that I gave a very, very in depth opinion to. I am not entirely sure if this would be seen as bad or good. I do assume something about the editor and his goals, but although I am somewhat informal at times, I don't think I act at all inappropriate.

Good
- Song Choice
- Anime Choice
- Video Quality
- Sound Quality
- Digital Effects
- Editing Sych (some parts)
- Reviewability


1) Song Choice: Yay for angsty Fuel song. The song is definitely appropriate. Gundam Seed (and I assume Destiny, although I have not seen it) is not exactly the happiest of anime. Going with an angsty song is always a decent choice.

2) Anime Choice: Much like the song choice, you did a good job of taking two parts that fit together. In addition, Seed is easily accessible and of high quality, even when downloaded. Good choice here as well.

3) Video Quality: I have to admit, I was pleasantly surprised here. I'm not a fan of WMVs, so I braced myself for a bad video. Although a generalization, in my experience it is usually true. I just wish you were the rule, rather than the exception. Quality was by no means excellent, but it was very, very good for a WMV. I took that into consideration.

4) Sound Quality: Perfect, but these days finding seriously screwed up audio is harder and harder. Good codecs are constantly coming out that can convert and compress and yet keep amazing quality. I gave you a ten because sound was perfect, but for the next guy or gal, I may need to lower it, just because I can no longer say with certainty that getting perfect audio quality is all that much effort anymore.

5) Digital Effects: When used, used well. You had some issues making them story-appropriate, but that will fall under editing synch. I especially liked the overlays. Being more detailed will far under my part by part break down of the video.

6) Editing Synch (some parts): Generally I felt the editing synch did an decent job of matching angst lyrics to angsty action and powerful sounds to powerful actions. There were exceptions, but those will fall under (other parts). Here we go step by step:

00:02-00:07 - Opening up with a seemingly peaceful space scene. In my opinion you should have kept this for all of the opening sequence.

00:21-00:27 - Appropriate, dark scenes, dark fades, dark lyrics. I felt it here.

00:33 - "with hands touching skin," although not technically skin (they're suited), the message comes across loud and clear, and I liked it.

00:56 - Excellent scene choice. You can really see how he's enamored with her. Unfortunately it fails to synch at 1:07.

01:13 - For the most part this was just cuts on audio beats. It worked.

01:28 - Dark scenes, dark fades, dark lyrics again. Gundam pilots looking all broody and emo. Very nice. Cheer up, Zion Kids!

01:46 - Spinning on "believe." It's cute, it's romantic, it fits.

01:51 - Quite possibly my favorite editing point in the video. Powerful audio part to a shuttle coming directly out of the horizon. Do this more often.

02:05 - Why yes, that IS a beautful sky. Probably my second favorite editing point. Too bad your editing points are so short.

02:07-02:20, this was, however, awesome. Excellent editing points several times in a row, in a coherent stream, for 13 whole seconds. First the snow "that falls on him" to him "being strong enough" and then the fade with slow down to a really screwed up looking crash site. Probably the most coherent part of the video.

02:38 - Decent flow, but not excellent.

02:40 - I like this concept, but execution varied for the length of the overlay. I'll just say it was generally good with the exception of 02:48.

7) Reviewable: I'll probably add this to my regularly watched list.

Bad
- Originality
- Lip Flap
- Repeated Footage
- Subs
- Credits
- Editing Synch (other parts)

1) Originality: While it's true I did say you couldn't go wrong with Seed plus Angsty music, it's not very original because of that. I'd love to see a sunshine and rainbows AMV for seed that worked.

2) Lip Flap: Avoid it. You have at least three instances of it, two of which were glaring. You must treat lip flap just like an other action because your viewer can see it. If it doesn't fit, cut it. If you can't cut it, edit it.

3) Repeated footage: Back in the dark days when we used linear editing, before broadband, peer 2 peer, or DVD ripping... Well, a certain amount of this was allowable. But these days, absolutely none is. I know, it was like, one second. But I recognized it, so it was still too much. Another explosion would have sufficed for that one second.

4) Subs: Not exactly a sub, but I didn't want to call it credits, since I'm about to go after your personal credits. You had a scene with Japanese text on it. That's a no-no.

5) Credits: This is a bit biased and subjective of me, but I honestly hate it. Starting the credits before the song ends is just... Like wasted resources to me. It bothers me deep inside. Please don't do it. Have a credit bumper like you have an opening bumper. Also you can't enter it into blind competitions like that.

6) Editing Synch (other parts): Some were just boring or cliche, some were simply inappropriate, some appeared to be attempts that didn't communicate what I think you wanted to say, and still other synch mistakes were just pure sloppyness. Here's the breakdown:

00:07-00:21 - No sir, I don't like it: powerful war scenes without the accompanying strong audio? If you were trying for a dichotomic contrast, it failed to communicate.

00:28 - Whoops. Turn that transition around, it's facing the wrong direction!

00:29 - Fail for lip flap. There are several modifications you could have made here to avoid said lip flap.

00:35-00:41 - Inappropriate action thematically and lyrically, but it also didn't match up with the beats. The movement of the gundam was much too fast.

00:45 - Oh my. Sudden, drastic change in the music... and you choose a slow transition? It doesn't work. It just looks like you missed an opportunity due to sloppy editing. (Hint: Explosion here!)

01:07-01:12 - Bah. Him running. I realize it was an attempt to go with the crescendo of the vocal but it didn't really work out.

01:28-1:35 - Scenes didn't match up with the lyrics I was hearing. My response was bleh.

01:53 - AWWWW, you transitioned from the shuttle early.

01:59-02:02 - Another lost opportunity. Your cut was not only to an inappropriate scene, but it was miles away from the beat.

02:21-02:23 - Unfortunately, you lose that coherency with the screams. Not appropriate, in fact, they look downright comical.

02:24 - Serious fail for that Japanese credit/sub thing. Yuck!

02:48 - Overlay or not, that there was repeated footage and I saw it! No hiding from me.

~03:00-4:00 - The last minute was probably your worst part of the video. It was all over the place lip flap, battle scenes not on the beat... Pretty boring. Go back, clean it up, place things on beats, and it'll look better. I'm not opposed to battle scenes, just actions that occur against the beats. Looks like you said "Hmm, video is almost over so... letsjustputabattlesceneheretorepetativeaudio, no one will know the difference."

General
In general, this video was decent. Much better than I expected when offering to give free ops. Anime/song combo were good, video quality was superior to most AMVs, audio quality was perfect. I found it to be reviewable. About half the video was edited well or decently. The rest, not so much. The concept was good largely because it was unoriginal and worked already. The lip flap, repeated footage, and sub annoyed me. The credits really annoyed me. Overall eight, mostly because I enjoyed watching it and will watch it again.


Amusingly, this video came up on random after I hit preview. O_o
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Re: How To Review

Postby godix » Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:19 am

I looked and found the following review I gave. Re-reading it, it seems to be fairly constructive criticism orientated, but perhaps I sugarcoated things a bit too much.

Originality - Ohhhh a car racing anime to a car racing movie trailer. That's gotta be the height of originality. I haven't seen anything this original since Heavens Gate offed themselves in a cheap copy of Jim Jones. What's wrong, could you not get the Naruto DVDs or Linkin Park CD to rip?

Video quality - I don't think it's possible to get something uglier on screen than that even if you videotaped Minion giving head to Izumi.

Sound quality - This video had sound and it wasn't nearly as annoying as listening to my wife whine about how she didn't cum yet. Bitch, I blew my load so now we're done. If she wants to cum she has two hands, she can damned well do it herself. Why should I waste my time on that? Anyway, you sounded better than that so nice job.

Action/editing - This video was almost as shaky and dark as the documentary about Michael Jackson's try up McCally Culkin's ass in search of the mythical lost glove of glitter. Except the Michael Jackson had some humor value despite the horrible editing which is just that much more value than your video had.

Lip sync - You ever happen to catch the news when it's the newcasters first night on the job? You know how they get that deer in the headlight look on their face and just read off the cue card like those braindead anatromic presidents that Disneyworld has? Yeah, you probably shouldn't try emulating that in your video.

Effects - Shatter. My god you used shatter! What astounding work you did! Now all you need to master is lens flare and color hue cycling and you'll have achieved the triefica of tacky effects! Few have dared go for this difficult goal, do you have the balls to continue down this road?

Effort - I've seen more effort from a five year old making stick figures fuck in MSpaint than I saw in this video. I mean seriously, he was sitting up straight with his tongue hanging out his mouth in concentration and mumbling about getting the figures just right, like the time he walked in on mommy and daddy and the moose. That kid was really into getting the moose asshole just right. You just don't see dedication to someones art like that anymore. Most people figure 'fuck the moose asshole, I'm going back to her titties' but not this kid. It was the best damned moose asshole I saw in my life. I don't know why, but for some strange reason seeing your video reminded me of moose shit flowing out his ass.

Review - This actually has a very high review factor. Primarily because I'm a sadistic asshole who hates my wife and takes joy in tormenting her. Playing this video 5 times a day fits that goal perfectly.
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Re: How To Review

Postby EvaFan » Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:36 am

Bleh, you can talk about what a good or bad review is all you want but you cant change people's attitudes or moods when they write them at the time.

Bad reviews happen, not everyone is a nice person or prefers saying exactly whats on their mind whether good or bad. Move on.

There is always gonna be a rotten tomatoes critic among critics. Then their's godix who enjoys tormenting. At least his comments are funny to read usually.
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Re: How To Review

Postby Fall_Child42 » Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:34 pm

BasharOfTheAges wrote:
Dr.Dinosaur wrote:This is where a good writer has to be careful, just because you didn't like it doesn't mean they are wrong.

A mindset of complete subjectiveness, likewise gets you nowhere. Most recognized "good" (pop-culture) critique is written as fact by individuals whose reputations provide requisite assertions of authority to back it up. Opinion as fact by authority through reputation is kinda how the art/music scene works. That's why it's filled with shallow vapid ass kissing fuckwits. It's the primary basis for the study of critique in general though, so what'cha gonna do?

What was the documentary by the way?


It didn't always work like that, nor does it have to work like that.

The Documentary was called Heckler. And while Jamie Kennedy got a bit whiney at times, and the trailer makes the film look way worse then it is, I think the movie was a great watch and had great points.

EvaFan wrote:Bleh, you can talk about what a good or bad review is all you want but you cant change people's attitudes or moods when they write them at the time.

Bad reviews happen, not everyone is a nice person or prefers saying exactly whats on their mind whether good or bad. Move on.

There is always gonna be a rotten tomatoes critic among critics. Then their's godix who enjoys tormenting. At least his comments are funny to read usually.


Why can't I? I find it upsetting when people have these defeatist attitudes about everything. Just because something is a certain way does not mean it has to be that way, that is a logical fallacy unless some evidence is brought up to support it. I agree Bad reviews do happen, but that doesn't mean that we have to accept them, and that we cant try and provide examples showing people what a good review looks like, and should be written like.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am going to now follow Infinity Squared's Lead and review one of my own videos. I hope this does not seem pretentious but I think I'll try and write both a good and a bad positive review. to contrast the negative one IS wrote.


bad wrote:OMG This was awesome! <3 I totally love this band. This was just so sweet. :up: :up: :up: :up: This video is like cake and cookies, and I love cake and cookies. I totally just love everything you make. In conclusion Pizza.


Why this is bad. Sure, most people won't complain about recieving comments like this, but that doesn't stop it from being poorly written. "I totally love this band" does not say anything about the video at all except that you enjoyed the music. And while Streetlight Manifesto might be happy to hear that you are a fan it really does not help the video creator. Emoticons generally fail to add anything to a review or a critique and should be used sparringly. "this video is like cake and cookies" Could lead into something usefull but only if that simile was expanded upon to say why the video was like cake and cookies. "I totally love everything you make" bears no comment on the video, and instead falls dangerously close to the personal attacks often seen in negative reviews.

Overall, even though this review was positive it was still a bad review. The review did not have anything to do with the video, nor did it offer any sort of valid critique past "I liked it for some reason"

good wrote:I enjoyed this video. I have to admit that I really like this band and their music and I thought that the video went very well with this song. I am the type of person that really enjoys internal synch, there is plenty of very good internal synch in this video which entertained me. I felt the uniqueness of the source added something to the video because I was exposed to something fresh and new. There were a couple of parts in the video that I thought broke the flow a tad, but overall I found it quite enjoyable. I think other people that like ska, and videos that focus heavily on internal synch may also enjoy watching this AMV.


Why it's good This review states that he likes the video but then proceeds to list a few specific reasons as to why. The internal synch, the way it fit with the song, the freshness of the anime all contributed to his enjoyment. Though these are his reasons, they are not presented as things that are automatically good. The reviewer does not say that because they are there everyone MUST enjoy this AMV. Something that the reviwer found he did not like was mentioned as well as something that might be improved on. Finally, the review ended with a general statement saying the basic style of the video, and if others that read the review share this reviewers taste then they might enjoy the video as well.
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Re: How To Review

Postby godix » Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:28 pm

To take the topic seriously, and basically repeat something I said in IRC, a few general guidelines to giving decent feedback I try to follow when I'm not just being a flaming asshole

- Overly vague statements aren't that useful. "The editing was bad" just doesn't tell someone enough to improve. Provide examples.

- Overly specific statements probably aren't that useful either. They're done editing the video, if you go second by second listing the thoughts on everything, then it doesn't matter. They aren't going to re-edit it. Limit your comments to stuff that may apply to what they edit in future.

- Understand there is a difference between 'I did/didn't like this' and 'This is wrong'. One is opinion, the other is fact. There are very few things about videos that are factual. Aspect Ratio, frame rate, or other tech stuff are. Most everything else is opinion. Try avoiding absolutes, 'flashes *NEVER* look good...' is overly strong in stating your opinion while 'The flashes in this spot did not look good...' is better.

- Excessive sugarcoating. If you're one of those people who wants to phrase negatives in a nice way, fine. Whatever. Knock yourself out. But don't go so far that the reader is left with the impression you liked something when you didn't. There is nothing wrong with saying you didn't like something and why.

- The reverse of that, excessive complaints. If there was one segment a few seconds long that had problems and you go off for three pages about it, but never once mention the rest of the video, you're being too critical. Keep perspective. It's rather rare a single mistake ruins the entire video so why treat that single issue as if it did?

Taking the above things into account, I think a decent statement would be something like "I do not like how you used flashes. At (timestamp) there were so many flashes in a row that it looked bad and seizurific. Less usually works better. Now for the rest of the video..."
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