top 10%

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top 10%

Postby godix » Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:40 am

A discussion kinda came up about how it's hard to hit the top 10% anymore because no one leaves ops. As an example: . Two years old. Very highly rated on the star scale. Almost 6000 hits. That vid is far more successful as far as attention and viewer opinion than the vast majority of what is on the org. It has 3 ops so will not appear in the Top 10% listings. If a video that popular and that good can't get enough ops, then what are the odds that any vids except those excessively pimped in the op exchange forum will?

As a sign of how pointless the Top 10% has gotten recently, with default settings for the Top 10% (all videos within the last 12 months) includes vids all the way down to a 7.49 score. Site average for scores is in the high 7's or low 8's. Which means that what is considered very subpar vids for org averages are getting listed.

I propose that the number of ops required to hit the top 10% lists be lowered. Three should be the absolute lowest, but perhaps 5 would be more reasonable.
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Re: top 10%

Postby mirkosp » Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:50 am

I'll echo godix's sentiment, and I think 3 is actually the amount we should go for. Unless you go around asking for ops, or the vid was pimped, reaching 3 ops is pretty hard even when deserved.
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Re: top 10%

Postby Emotive » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:02 am

Agreed, 5 ops sounds just about right. Definitely not 3 though. Basically I believe if we lower it that much it becomes overly accessible so people start trading opinions more, knowing that making it to the top 10% isn't that hard. Result, the majority of the videos that anyone shits out end up on the top 10%.
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Re: top 10%

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:49 pm

I'll agree with godix on this one. Without actively asking for them, you simply don't get ops anymore. I don't know the last time I got an unsolicited op, but I can consistently find references to my work on websites in a dozen different languages... that's kinda sad.

Odd side thought. Has anyone though about reworking the top 10% system to include star ratings? Perhaps only if there's a sizable number of them. I know we have the top star scale thing, but who uses that really? Perhaps a 3rd database query that samples both might be useful?
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Re: top 10%

Postby CodeZTM » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:30 pm

Agreed with Godix. Totally 100%.

10 is a ridiculous number. Basically, you just have to BEG for them in the OP thread, and even then they're not gaurenteed unless you offer something ridiculous for them.

While I think 3 would be awesome, I see teh problems EMotive pointed out, but I also think 5 is still a stretch for some aMV's.
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Re: top 10%

Postby mirkosp » Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:51 pm

BasharOfTheAges wrote:Odd side thought. Has anyone though about reworking the top 10% system to include star ratings? Perhaps only if there's a sizable number of them. I know we have the top star scale thing, but who uses that really? Perhaps a 3rd database query that samples both might be useful?


But what about vids that aren't on local? Nevermind, you did say sizable number.

Still, that would require to rework on the op score math. With just lowering the minimum it doesn't even take much. :P
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Re: top 10%

Postby Ileia » Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:39 pm

Yeah, I agree. It's like you have to win a VCA around here to get enough unsolicited opinions to make it in. Not even all the finalists have enough. I'm thinking that three could work but that is kind of low, and five might even be a bit high....how about four?
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Re: top 10%

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:50 pm

mirkosp wrote:
BasharOfTheAges wrote:Odd side thought. Has anyone though about reworking the top 10% system to include star ratings? Perhaps only if there's a sizable number of them. I know we have the top star scale thing, but who uses that really? Perhaps a 3rd database query that samples both might be useful?


But what about vids that aren't on local? Nevermind, you did say sizable number.

Still, that would require to rework on the op score math. With just lowering the minimum it doesn't even take much. :P

I just noticed that even putting in a more than fair minimum of 500 star ratings, that's over 6700 videos. Kinda amazing there are that many... it really points out the differences between the scales. As to vids that aren't on local, It honestly just kinda sucks to be them.
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Re: top 10%

Postby mirkosp » Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:38 am

BasharOfTheAges wrote:
mirkosp wrote:
BasharOfTheAges wrote:Odd side thought. Has anyone though about reworking the top 10% system to include star ratings? Perhaps only if there's a sizable number of them. I know we have the top star scale thing, but who uses that really? Perhaps a 3rd database query that samples both might be useful?


But what about vids that aren't on local? Nevermind, you did say sizable number.

Still, that would require to rework on the op score math. With just lowering the minimum it doesn't even take much. :P

I just noticed that even putting in a more than fair minimum of 500 star ratings, that's over 6700 videos. Kinda amazing there are that many... it really points out the differences between the scales. As to vids that aren't on local, It honestly just kinda sucks to be them.


I can't put "Dedicated to #AMV" on local 'cause it goes beyond the PG13 limit, and (likely trollwin but maybe not) it's at 8th spot in the top 10% for the last 12 months. :oops:
Also there are grey area vids (as in AMV or not) which have been removed from local, but are fine for just listing and direct/indirect linking (eg: Sn0wcrash's "Android Love"), so those can't get stars either.
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Re: top 10%

Postby Enigma » Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:35 pm

I LOVE YOU GODIX
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Re: top 10%

Postby Panky » Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:09 pm

What I think that might fail in this system (if it's the way I understand it) is the fact that instead of having more importance/popularity, while having >= the minimum amount of OP's and having a high score (such like 9.5) it will reach high positions. See, if it were to be 3 OP's from friends, it could be around 9-10 and reach the higher positions even if it's practically unknown. I know, it will probably get down from time if it gets more popular.

Perhaps something like Bashar said, making some kind of point system to take in mind stars scores and OP's # and scores and/or views.
IDK, something like 1view=1p;1op=1*avg. Although making an algorithm out of this is pretty hard since there will virtually always be a tweak.
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Re: top 10%

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:19 pm

mirkosp wrote:I can't put "Dedicated to #AMV" on local 'cause it goes beyond the PG13 limit, and (likely trollwin but maybe not) it's at 8th spot in the top 10% for the last 12 months. :oops:.

Uh... what? Did out local guidelines change at some point? I don't see any gore involving entrails or graphic depictions of sex or even any inappropriate-at-the-beach nudity anywhere in that video. Everything is censored (in the actual anime no less). There are no depictions of genitalia or female breasts (I know the US is prudish, but topless guys and quick ass shots are still completely okay on network TV)... there is no reason that it shouldn't be on local unless the rules have changed lately.
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Re: top 10%

Postby mirkosp » Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:04 pm

Pankyy wrote:What I think that might fail in this system (if it's the way I understand it) is the fact that instead of having more importance/popularity, while having >= the minimum amount of OP's and having a high score (such like 9.5) it will reach high positions. See, if it were to be 3 OP's from friends, it could be around 9-10 and reach the higher positions even if it's practically unknown. I know, it will probably get down from time if it gets more popular.


It already is set so that you'll need a huge amount of full 10s to not be considered a troll, so that the more ops you have, the more they are reliable.

Qualified = count(opinions) >= 10

compscore = sum(avg(nonNULL(opinion.category))/count(avg(nonNULL(opinion.category)) except Overall and Re-view

Note: The top and bottom 10% scores are removed from the average calculation (also known as the "Olympic Average")

score = Bayesian Average(avg(compscore+overall+review))

Bayesian Average = (v ÷ (v + m)) × R + (m ÷ (v + m)) × C

where:
R = average for the video (mean) = (old score)
v = number of votes for the video = (votes)
m = minimum votes required to be listed in the top 10% (10)
C = the mean score across all videos (average all vids)


@Bashar: there is a scene that I made look like there's cum over his face (although in the actual anime it's supposedly saliva). That's the only thing that makes me explain the local denial back then.
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Re: top 10%

Postby Panky » Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:31 pm

mirkosp wrote:It already is set so that you'll need a huge amount of full 10s to not be considered a troll, so that the more ops you have, the more they are reliable.

Qualified = count(opinions) >= 10

compscore = sum(avg(nonNULL(opinion.category))/count(avg(nonNULL(opinion.category)) except Overall and Re-view

Note: The top and bottom 10% scores are removed from the average calculation (also known as the "Olympic Average")

score = Bayesian Average(avg(compscore+overall+review))

Bayesian Average = (v ÷ (v + m)) × R + (m ÷ (v + m)) × C

where:
R = average for the video (mean) = (old score)
v = number of votes for the video = (votes)
m = minimum votes required to be listed in the top 10% (10)
C = the mean score across all videos (average all vids)



:oops:
I had seen until the compscore thing, I read past the bayesian average thing thinking it was something independent from the top %10 system itself. Although it's true it does take only Op's in account, but well, it guess it has its own well put limitations to less popular/good videos against better ones.
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Re: top 10%

Postby dokidoki » Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:47 pm

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