Proposal for changed review system

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Postby Flint the Dwarf » Wed Jul 03, 2002 10:06 pm

I basically agree with MJ here but I think the thumbs up/down/neutral system could work. And yeah I suppose it could make more problems. But it's not much of change for Phade to do and can definately wait. But I think it would be good for those people who don't really want to write a review but just leave their input.

I myself am not a creator but I do like to write reviews sometimes. So I don't think limiting reviews to just creators is a great idea.

P.S. - Punistation, you never asked me to do a review :D . As soon as I can get one of your vids, I'll put up a review cuz I just finished my list of vids to review.
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Postby Zarxrax » Wed Jul 03, 2002 11:12 pm

I dont think most of you are understanding what we're really getting at here. The first problem that needs to be addressed is the top 10%. I think most everyone can agree with me that its worthless, and it causes much more harm than it does good. Is everyone on the same page with me here? Now by simply removing this, it could solve 90% of opinion problems. How? Because the opinons would no longer be used for promotion of this top 10% "contest". people would quit using the opinions as such. Instead, people would use the opinions more for what they were actually designed for - giving helpful feedback to the videos creator.

Now what about this thumbs up/down stuff? Why the hell would we need that?? Well, because it would make it a hell of a lot easier for someone to let the creator know how they liked the video, without having to write up a review. I know that I, and many others wouldn't mind leaving an opinon such as this for every single video that we view. This would make especially the new creators very happy, as they would actually get LOTS of feedback, instead of perhaps 1 or even 0 reviews as they might get with the current system. Now how would such an opinon system be of help to the creator of the video? Well, it would let him have a very accurate measure of what the public thinks of his video. Unless you get like 30 or more opinons on a video, i think you can safely say that you aren't getting a terribly ACCURATE measure of what people think of your video. With the simplicity of a thumbs opinion system, people could literally recieve hundreds of opinons, which could make for very accurate measure of opinon.

Now about what I said of making a new sort of top 10% using the thumbs opinons... well maybe that isn't such a great idea. It would suit me just fine to have no means at all for videos to compete on-site. But I believe it could make for a much more fair and accurate portrayal of the top videos than the current top 10% does.

And it's all just ideas, after all.
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Postby Beef » Thu Jul 04, 2002 9:48 am

I did have a long reply going here but when I submitted it I found that the ORG was down and I lost it all so here is the jist of it. Everybody writing great reviews will never happen, people are too lazy. Instead of receving a long review every now and then and a couple of short ones, you will only be receving a long one every now and then and this could start people to loose intrest in AMV creation. I would be a good Idea if people did just start writing long reviews but I think they will just not write them anymore. Personally I have no problem with the top 10% percent.
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Postby mexicanjunior » Thu Jul 04, 2002 3:18 pm

TaranT wrote:
mexicanjunior wrote:Honestly, I see nothing wrong with the current review system to warrant overhauling it. It's fair and accurate in my eyes.


You are being sarcastic, aren't you? :?

http://www.animemusicvideos.org/legacy/opinion_info.php?vid_id=6527

Isn't it obvious that the reviews need to be moderated the same way and for the same reason that forum posts should be (or will be?) ?


There's exceptions to everything and an all 1's review is certainly worthy of being deleted by Phade because no video really deserves it (except maybe some of my older one's =P). However, as a whole I've found the review system to be about as accurate and easy to it gets. No matter how often people try to change it, not everyone will be happy with it. If you took a poll of all AMV creators, I'd be willing to bet that the majority would not see a problem with keeping the review system as it is. A minor tweak here and there is fine but a complete revamp is unneccssary IMHO.
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Postby Flint the Dwarf » Thu Jul 04, 2002 10:38 pm

Hmm... yeah people generally seem to like being unsatisfied with stuff. And as many people as we have here, we can't expect to please that many.

And c'mon MJ, give yourself some credit. None of your vids were that bad. Your concepts alone are good enough, I mean look at your Transformers one =). How many Transformers vids are there?

But seriously, other than a major change in the way we as members review, there's nothing Phade can really do. So let's just figure out all this other stuff first.
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Postby DiemondDagger » Thu Jul 04, 2002 11:51 pm

flint_the_dwarf wrote:Hmm... yeah people generally seem to like being unsatisfied with stuff.


Like women and sex with dwarf's..
just kidding buddy ^_^ you left it open for reply though.

I think I'll give you a free review if you have a video.
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Postby TaranT » Fri Jul 05, 2002 12:14 am

mexicanjunior wrote:There's exceptions to everything and an all 1's review is certainly worthy of being deleted by Phade because no video really deserves it....A minor tweak here and there is fine but a complete revamp is unneccssary IMHO.


The all-1's review in question is not a "review" in any sense of the word. It's a deliberate obstruction (several screens of irrelevant and tasteless text) that is intended to make it difficult for an opinion browser to get to the positive reviews that are listed below it. It is also directly contest-related - I won't discuss which until that convention has taken place. I presented the link since this topic is about improving the review system and that is an example of the kind of abuse it's being used for.

I still think the reviews need to be moderated, but I agree with you that a complete change is not needed. Most of the reviews I've been given are worth reading (and I still owe you one; haven't forgotten, just busy with contest deadlines).
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Postby TaranT » Fri Jul 05, 2002 12:32 am

Zarxrax wrote:...Instead, people would use the opinions more for what they were actually designed for - giving helpful feedback to the videos creator.


Maybe you're being a little too optimistic :). I don't see that the top 10% is a problem with regard to reviews, although I'm sure some people are misusing the review system to get in the top 10%, just as others are misusing the system for other reasons. The quick solution for the 10% list is to raise the threshold opinion count to something like 200 instead of 3. This will shorten the list and also make it very difficult for anyone to manipulate the results.

I do like your idea for a simple up-down vote. That could work if phade had the time to write the code.
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Postby Flint the Dwarf » Fri Jul 05, 2002 1:07 am

*Sniffs* No one likes me.... That's it Diemond, just for that I'm going to usurp your position in the Most Useful Commentators list. Mwa ha ha ha that'll teach ya! Right behind you!!!
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Postby DiemondDagger » Sat Jul 06, 2002 1:03 am

Battle of the opinions.

Grid Lock! :x

^_^
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Postby Phade » Sat Jul 06, 2002 9:43 am

Hey,

Finally the site is stable for more than 20 mins...

Anyways, the thumb scale has been an idea for quite some time. I was going to have it available for v.2, but I didn't get around to it in time for the rollout. I even had text referring to it that I had to remove since it's not here yet.

TaranT: The quick solution for the 10% list is to raise the threshold opinion count to something like 200 instead of 3.


The reason it is at 3 is so you can more quickly find what other people think is a good video. If you don't think it's good, post your honest opinion saying so. There is nothing wrong with an honest opinion.

As for who pushed for the top 10% in the begining, I won't say directly, but leave it up to you to research it when the old forum is back up in read-only mode; you may be suprised.

Phade.
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Postby MaboroshiStudio » Sat Jul 06, 2002 10:50 am

Phade wrote:Hey,

Finally the site is stable for more than 20 mins...

Anyways, the thumb scale has been an idea for quite some time. I was going to have it available for v.2, but I didn't get around to it in time for the rollout. I even had text referring to it that I had to remove since it's not here yet.

TaranT: The quick solution for the 10% list is to raise the threshold opinion count to something like 200 instead of 3.


The reason it is at 3 is so you can more quickly find what other people think is a good video. If you don't think it's good, post your honest opinion saying so. There is nothing wrong with an honest opinion.

As for who pushed for the top 10% in the begining, I won't say directly, but leave it up to you to research it when the old forum is back up in read-only mode; you may be suprised.

Phade.


Whoever pushed for it makes no difference Phade... that isn't the issue and bringing it up accomplishes what? Hell, for all I know I might have been one of the first to call for it, but after seeing it in action for a good time now I think it needs to change. I think some way of videos being recommended is good, but the top 10% walks a thing line between reviews and a popularity contest. It can skew preceptions as what a person has to do to make a really successful video. Leave that up to the creator and I just feel that the review / opinion system is currently trying to do two things which conflict with each other and devaule it. I would prefer a pure review system where the numbers don't matter in some popularity contest and a recommendation system like the thumbs as well.

Maboroshi
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Postby DiemondDagger » Sat Jul 06, 2002 11:02 am

Phade wrote:As for who pushed for the top 10% in the begining, I won't say directly, but leave it up to you to research it when the old forum is back up in read-only mode; you may be suprised.




Go Phade! This is good that we can go back and read-only on the forums then we can give the n00bs those links when they ask a question that has been answered 9999999999 billion times.
Wise descion on your part Phade! I'd give you a thumb up if you could see me :D
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Postby Eek-1 » Sat Jul 06, 2002 5:42 pm

Originally posted by TaranT


...I still think the reviews need to be moderated...



I agree. We should from a group for moderating reviews to keep it useful & tidy. The review database isn't 'unlimited' y'know
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Postby AMVUserII » Tue Jul 09, 2002 9:02 am

Ahhh the review system a long and debated topic.....

well lets see i don't think anyone has come up with an acceptable alternative to the current system.....but i do have some suggestion.

1. Instead of 1-10 review it should be extended to decimals.

For example now you can have AMVs rated as 7.5 or 8.9 or 9.8 I myself have always had trouble giving an AMV a definite number when I review it adding decimals to the number system is simple to do for Phade and it makes a world of a difference, by providing a more accurate rating of an AMV.

2. Somehow opinions need to be organized for the creator.

Ie. when I go to see who has reviewed my AMVs today I can filter and view just AMV Creators' reviews from this site, or I can view non-AMV Creators' reviews from this site.

That way for those of us whom prefer reviews from fellow AMV Creators they get to see there colleagues reviews.

And also those of us whom prefer fan-based reviews we can see those aswell.

Thus as the creator we're able to distinguish btwn an AMV Creator review and a Fan review.
-Next Generation Films Inc. (NGF)
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