AnimeMusicVideos.org TOCAG Assessment

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AnimeMusicVideos.org TOCAG Assessment

Postby AMVGuide » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:55 pm

Hello everyone!
So, considering how the homepage of AnimeMusicVideos.org is the first result for the searchterm 'AMV,' the hobby as a whole would benefit from some changes.


EDIT1: Version 2.0 | EDIT2: TOCAG Assessment Printout


Prototype Recommendation:

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EDIT1: Version 2.0 | EDIT2: TOCAG Assessment Printout


    Benefits:
    1. If it actually looks like the hobby is alive and active, it will become alive and active
    2. The homepage would always remain current since it's completely user-driven
    3. It would create a place that provides a wide variety of content using different Post Types;
    4. Older AMV gems can get needed attention via Repost instead of falling into obscurity
    5. Everyone gets equal opportunity for attention; which is entirely community-driven
    6. If there is a singular place for all AMV-related posts, there is no confusion over where to post stuff;
    7. Moderators won't really need to move posts anymore; the system is more chaotic, but self-regulating
    8. Now, The Fans will have opportunities to become involved via Reposts; not just The Editors that post new stuff.
    9. Big ugly green button can't be missed; pretty much anyone can figure out how the page works
    10. Visibility of Reviews, Discussions, etc... will show that the hobby actually has real depth
    11. Visibility of Category Tags will get users thinking more creatively
    12. New Post Types and Category Tags can be invented at any time for even more Variety and Innovation
    13. Users that google 'AMV' get to view & generate usercontent immediately without any extra clicks
    14. Users don't have to register if they just want to see what others are doing
    15. Users wouldn't have to catalog AMVs if it's too much of a hassle; but it should still be encouraged
    (I think the cataloging rule is a significant burden for the average user; and should not be a requirement)
    16. Everyone should have an edit button (not just donators) so that if users mess up the naming scheme, they can fix it themselves.
    (If the org really needs donations, just do a donation drive, or promote the site store)
    17. If you want to bring back old editors, create new Post Types like Editor Showcase; Fan Showcase; Favorites etc...
    18 .If Everything is in the forum, Everything can be searched; including AMVs not in the catalog
    19. Guides and stuff can be integrated into the forum for easy updates via user submission
    20. Users can be notified of site news and updated links simply by putting red stars beside those links
    21. The menu in the corner would drop down into something similar to the Quick Links at the bottom of the site.
    22. The power of a PHPBB3 forum would act as an extra layer of protection to help prevent the site from breaking or being hacked
    23. As PHPBB3 evolves, extra features (like an extra column for tags) can readily be plugged into the site
    24. The layout is friendly for phones or devices with small screens; which will likely become the primary mode of AMV viewing in the future...
    25. There's a possibility that all the tags you see above the forum can be converted into clickable search links for easy browsing (maybe)

    (Note: Even if a design similar to the one above is not implemented, 90% of the same advantages can be achieved simply by redirecting the orgs current homepage to the AMV Announcements Forum.)

Suggestion# 2: Give the homepage a splash screen similar to the Quick Links above. That way, users can actually see what the org has to offer.

Suggestion #3: Give the homepage to the AMV SubReddit since it can get users browsing instantly; and watching videos within 1 click.
(Which is something the org can't do. Of course, that wouldn't really help the org at all... but it would certainly help the hobby.)

Some food for thought: http://www.statisticbrain.com/attention ... tatistics/

Well anyway, these are just some suggestions. What are your thoughts?
Last edited by AMVGuide on Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: AMV Homepage Suggestions

Postby Taite » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:15 pm

My first thought is that it's way too cluttered. From this I don't know how to go backward to other parts of the forum where there's discussion about other things going on. I like the idea of reposts, but the way it looks is too wordy. It'd be better if there was a different color topic icon thing for it rather than just "repost" injected into the title, as well as for the other categories like 'new', and 'review,' which I don't know if you added that last one in there randomly or something, but if you're going to review an amv just post it under that amv's comment thread instead of making a new one, since that just drowns out everything else. Another issue I have with it is if new threads can be so easily created and say reposts became big, then amvs would easily flow onto the second page, whereas under the current system amvs have more feature-time.

One thing with this is that it facilitates more discussion for specific amvs since it's the first 'click,' essentially, into the site, which could counteract the last issue I mentioned, but only if people could easily make comments on them. To address your numbered list:
I like 8, 9 (though it's like that now anyhow), 4, 15, and am neutral/fine about most others, other than the ones I disagree with, primarily being:
12- giving members the ability to just create whatever category they want will just make everything more chaotic
17- No point in bringing back old editors if they're not editing imo. Everyone already knows about them, can't we focus on new stuff? I'm not opposed to showcases of older editors as long as a show's not made out of it all the time, which it would be under this system since it carries equal weight with other threads.
18- Everything being under one category is just insane and no one likes to search for things, which is why you have an organized system
19- again, too much. I like guides and I like them being updated, but all this together is going to be one big clusterfuck.
5- It's not equal when it's combined with other subjects like reviews, guides, discussions, etc.
10- under that system it would have much benefit since it drowns out an editor's thread, which should be looked at as being the keystone to the site.

So what we can conclude is to take that system you proposed and break it down into more cleaner categories so guides, etc, don't overrun Amv announcements, and you basically get our current forum system. The only difference is it's not the home page when you search the org, but I don't see the big deal? I look up amvorg and directly under the home link is one for "forum." It's not that hard to find.
I like the idea of implementing parts of this onto the home page so that that part of the site is more interactive and useful, other than just for searching for amvs and profiles (which I think could use a new format more since people like to be fancy with their crap but you can't currently), so I'm ok with Suggestion 2.
Suggestion 3 absolutely not. I like watching videos with one click, great idea, but it's a subreddit, so it's not dedicated entirely to amvs because you have the whole site of reddit right in front of your face. You can conglomerate the subreddit more into the org since people like reddit anyhow, but making it the HOME page? Terrible idea in my opinion.


It's funny you bring up the attention span thing though because that was my issue with the org when I first joined. I went to the front page, signed up, and was already bored before I got to make my profile just because there's nothing happening there. The forum is great, homepage not so much, so I'll agree with you there. I think your suggestions are worth debating, but the one thing that's needed on the home page is what it has; a clear definition of the site and a sort of concrete identity. With a subreddit it doesn't have that because it's part of reddit, the org though is it's own thing, entirely devoted to amvs. Forums also don't have that because they're ever-changing. With the home pages and profiles and all that stuff on the other 'side' of the site, they're boring and useless as they are when you're a member for so long, but they have it right when it comes to introducing the site, except that it's dull and needs to be more interactive (ie, give users more control over their profiles, allow comments on their pages, like yt, sorry to say, although they've screwed themselves over on that now too.) The home page has to be something different than a forum-style page, imo, but putting a little widjit on the homepage so people can click on thumbnails of newly released amvs with previews, that'd be great. Somehow linking the two, but not letting one override the other.
Basically, the home page should be as it is, except that it needs to look better and be less cluttered with all those damn buttons and headings, and more focus should be given to the forum on the front page, reposts are cools, and all that other stuff just goes under general discussion anyhow.
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Re: AMV Homepage Suggestions

Postby irriadin » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:36 pm

You've got some good ideas, but this homepage design is not very good for several reasons. Users coming to a homepage like this would not necessarily understand that they'd have to click the forum links to access the videos. Forums are becoming a rather antiquated platform in the larger scheme of things on the web. It's likely that anime fans would be more informed as to how they work than other demographic groups, but still...

My big problem with this approach is that AMVs are a visual medium. Instead of using text, we should be using images and video. Instead of looking at reddit for design inspiration, look at YouTube or Vimeo instead. You go to YouTube, you're not given a huge list of text when you do a search. You get a detailed description, but more importantly, a video screenshot. In any case, any redesign is not likely to take off for want of programmers and other related issues.
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Re: AMV Homepage Suggestions

Postby sakuraslight » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:44 pm

I agree with a forum update with security in mind. and that the editors section is the core of the forum.
The top dose look awfully cluttered.

Main pages and start splash pages. Are neat and tidy as they, They just need an Update. not be turned into the forum
I love the journals and the to videos , new vids on the block. Right there its convenient. and all the quick links and guides, everything you will ever need to be an editor on the left..

as I said needs a fresh lick of paint is all.

AMV uploading and cataloguing. Could this be done all on one page with floating/pop out menus for choosing music and anime. instead of having go through 8 pages of set-up. also a drag an drop upload system that is directly on the site for uploading videos. FTP is fine for me but ask someone new to login to FTP with a host username and password is scarry. It scared me when I first did it. when they can just drag and drop on other sites.

1 click videos. how about this. take people to the preview video on the one click and below that Have the video information and a link if they want to download it.. (this is more than what youtube lets you do .) If layed out right could pull alot of people from youtube as well.

Ok thats my 2 cents

Hugs from sak AMV editor since 2000 - on the org since 2003

(10 years wow.. you peeps have scared me for life... but I love you)
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Re: AMV Homepage Suggestions

Postby AMVGuide » Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:28 pm

I forgot to mention that this design is actually feasible.
And doesn't require any programming. Which has likely always been the limiting factor in the org's design.

I also forgot to mention that this design would be the only fair chance anyone's ever going to get at position number 1;
Which seems to be the only thing AMVers ever want in the first place. Give it to them, and they will come.
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Re: AMV Homepage Suggestions

Postby Taite » Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:39 pm

I also forgot to mention that this design would be the only fair chance anyone's ever going to get at position number 1;
Which seems to be the only thing AMVers ever want in the first place. Give it to them, and they will come.

Pretty confused by what you mean here. Under your format are videos ranked by views or something, thus giving someone a "number 1" slot? Either way pretty sure no one cares about being "number one," if that's even feasible.
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Re: AMV Homepage Suggestions

Postby AMVGuide » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:32 pm

Taite wrote:Under your format are videos ranked by views or something, thus giving someone a "number 1" slot? Either way pretty sure no one cares about being "number one," if that's even feasible.

Well... if you want to, you can sort by viewcount using the menu at the bottom, (which is a nice bonus I didn't even think of when making this); but this is basically just the AMV Announcement Forum with some stuff on the top; and some stuff bottom; hence why it doesn't really require any programming. Now, when you post something in the announcements forum, your post comes out on top; effectively giving everyone who posts position number one. So instead of having people struggle through a daunting ranking scheme to get to position number one on the Homepage AMV Spotlight Playlist(may require logout); this way, everyone can just have position number one, even for but a fraction of a second.
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Re: AMV Homepage Suggestions

Postby sakuraslight » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:36 pm

Taite wrote:
I also forgot to mention that this design would be the only fair chance anyone's ever going to get at position number 1;
Which seems to be the only thing AMVers ever want in the first place. Give it to them, and they will come.

Pretty confused by what you mean here. Under your format are videos ranked by views or something, thus giving someone a "number 1" slot? Either way pretty sure no one cares about being "number one," if that's even feasible.



Agreed. At the most we have in in depth ranking system. The likes of witch none has and none will. Unless its a full comp. Getting a number 1 or a top 10% is hard. Its something you have to work for . popularity dose come into it a little. But its working to make your AMV get that attention. It takes years of work. ( sometimes) there are always exceptions. But if you look at the top 10% its people who have been making amvs for a long Time.

Sorry on my mobile at the most. sorry about grammer and spelling .

As a forum its a good idea as a new front page . NO. Don't like it.
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Re: AMV Homepage Suggestions

Postby AMVGuide » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:10 am

Well, forum idea or homepage... either way, I'm just trying to offer a suggestion for rekindling the hobby.

And I think this would do that.
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Re: AMV Homepage Suggestions

Postby Taite » Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:14 am

AMVGuide wrote:Well... if you want to, you can sort by view-count using the menu at the bottom, (which is a nice bonus I didn't even think of when making this); but this is basically just the AMV Announcement Forum with some stuff on the top; and some stuff bottom; hence why it doesn't really require any programming. Now, when you post something in the announcements forum, your post comes out on top; effectively giving everyone who posts position number one. So instead of having people struggle through a daunting ranking scheme to get to position number one on the Homepage AMV Spotlight Playlist(may require logout); this way, everyone can just have position number one, even for but a fraction of a second.


This isn't any different than what we have now, when you post you're on the top. As far as I know, and someone can correct me, the spotlight on the homepage is randomly generated from highly reviewed amvs. It's a nice idea but pretty worthless imo, as it only highlights amvs that are pretty popular, even though it says "highly rated recently."
If someone posted their amv recently, and thus were on the top of the forum, and had a preview available, that could go under the spotlight, but that's not considered being "#1," but whenever someone comments on a thread it brings that thread to the top, so it's constantly changing, and it'd be annoying for that to be changing all the time too. I know that wasn't what you were suggesting but what you're suggesting the org already has. And the spotlight isn't a big part of the site anyhow, so I don't understand the comparison.
The way I see it there's no way being #1 in any way would help anything.

Rekindling the site would involve a drastic change imo, and we simply don't have the resources for that. I know you said your format thing can be installed or whatever without extra programming or something, but the format itself is flawed. It's not appealing to look at, it's quite cluttered, it doesn't serve as a homepage or do what a homepage would do. I like the new idea of categories, but we pretty much already have that under the forum. What the org needs for the forum is an aesthetic reformat, perhaps, but the homepages need a complete makeover, not something we already have.
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Re: AMV Homepage Suggestions

Postby Pwolf » Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:06 am

To be honest, this is just a lot of rehashing of the ideas and thoughts people have made in the redesign threads. Unfortunately any changes, wither or not it requires extra programming, need to be ultimately decided by someone at the top of the food chain... and that's not really happening at the moment. We are kind of stuck with what we have unfortunately.
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Re: AMV Homepage Suggestions

Postby AMVGuide » Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:44 pm

Here's the way I'm looking at it:
Image

Based on the numbers, nobody bothers with cataloging anymore. And it's just going to keep getting worse unless the org actually tries doing something for once. It doesn't matter what it is. It could be anything. But it's got to be something.

And if the org is in some kind of limbo, then I'll just leave this idea to the powers that be. But what I'm offering here is something. And that's all the org needs. Can we at least agree on that much?

Either way:

v2.0

Image

##############
Hmm... I think that looks way better. But anyways, the best thing you can do is put your self in the shoes of the average user that finds the org for the first time. It's a very small window of opportunity. It only lasts about 8 seconds, before the user decides whether the page has what they are looking for or not before going back to google and trying the next link. For the ones that are lucky enough to know what a forum is, they'll go there. For the ones that are lucky enough to see the AMV Announcements forum and not dismiss it as site announcements, they'll go there. Meanwhile, the rest of them are still on the homepage deciding whether they should sign up or not. Which is something most parents tell their kids not to do (because... you know... the younger generation makes up a larger demographic than the average forum-goer probably ever thinks about). And this is all a long while away before anyone even considers posting anything. Yet the fundamentals still hold true. The only topics anyone makes are still just AMV Announcements and discussions in General AMV. My suggestion fulfills that user-demand the moment anyone gets to the site. It's the only stuff anyone actually uses. How it looks is just an after thought at that point. They only care if it does what they wanted it to do the first time they got to the site. All within 8 seconds. If it looks pretty or not... well that's just a bonus.

Now, most of us probably can't remember exactly how their first encounter with the org went; but for whatever reason, the conditions were just right that we decided to stay. And for many, it took a while before we even posted. So let me open your eyes a little bit: Everyone here in this forum is an outlier. We are all statistical anomalies that somehow hung on instead of leaving within those first 8 seconds. The vast majority of users likely don't even give the org the light of day.


So again: Put yourself into the shoes of someone that has stumbled across the org for the first time.
How did they get there? When someone types 'AMV' into their search engine, what are they looking for?
Generally, they just want to:

    1. Find out where all the good stuff is
    2. Share their own stuff
    3. Check out what other people are doing,
    4. and maybe talk about it.

From the current homepage, can you accomplish any of that within 8 seconds?
Not so much.


_________________

The fact still remains: The only real power the org has ever had is the homepage gateway; and it could be used more effectively.
I mean, If it wasn't for doki coding the AMV Spotlight, there wouldn't be much to interact with (Thanks for that BTW).
And if we're all just striving for a spotlight, (...and we all are when you get right down to it...) everyone can get that chance with the design I'm proposing.

PS: The AMV Spotlight could totally be embedded above the forum. I didn't even think about that until just now. I also prettied it up a bit. Did you notice?
PSS: If you use GIMP, here's what's I'm working with: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/157 ... ge_002.xcf
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Re: AMV Homepage Suggestions

Postby ngsilver » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:27 pm

I'm still trying to wrap my head around how a redesign of the main homepage (something we've been discussing for years, had a great design and work towards it) is going to 'rekindle' the hobby. I mean, didn't we already have a thread were we came to the conclusion that it isn't the hobby that is dying but the org itself? So again, the idea of 'rekindling' should be better in tune with the org and not the hobby.

If we are trying to breath new life into the site, then the redesign proposed above is not how to do it. Look at all that wasted space! Seriously, we should be more trying to set ourselves up similarly to how youtube gives content, and make things more accessible. Trythil's design looked great and it did all of that.

This brings me right back to why this is even being brought back up again. We had already decided to look into a re-design. We had come up with a design. We just lost the coders required to make it. We don't need a new design again, we need people to code it.

Honestly, even with that happening I don't see it fixing the issue the org faces right now. We're way too far behind the 8ball at this point. Youtube is just way to easy to use and people are there. Sure, it may not be as friendly to AMVs as we are, but they already have the viewers. We have... well... a forum that is partially used.

Honestly, I'd rather have my videos played on the big screen at contests at conventions, heck, even re-uploaded by the best of amv people then randomly have it appear on the front page of the org. It'd be seen by way more people at that point.
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Re: AMV Homepage Suggestions

Postby AMVGuide » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:31 pm

Read my last post and it should all make sense. The gist of it is that the orgs homepage literally acts as the gateway to the entire world of AMVs since it comes up as the first search result. And if the average attention span of *new* users is only 8 seconds, the org shoots itself in the foot with the current homepage by not gaining anymore user-base. I should also repeat that this design does not require any coding. The org could have this by the end of the day if they wanted to since it's basically just the AMV Announcement Forum with a naming scheme.
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Re: AMV Homepage Suggestions

Postby Pwolf » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:02 pm

Again, either way, this would require a decision from the powers that be, which isn't going to happen any time soon.
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