This is the log of the August 16, 2012 meeting of the moderators and administrators. Three minor edits have been made, dealing with a specific user issue, a personal communication, and the name of a moderator who is not public and was also not present at the meeting. As the log is large, it will take two posts to be posted fully:
5:46:43 PM) gquestor2 entered the room.
(5:46:43 PM) kariudo sanjuro entered the room.
(5:46:43 PM) RadicalYue entered the room.
(5:46:43 PM) Person6713 entered the room.
(5:46:43 PM) LantisEscudo entered the room.
(5:57:00 PM) d0k1d0k1 entered the room.
(6:03:13 PM) otohikoamv entered the room.
(6:03:50 PM) gquestor2: Well, that's everyone but Nya and Vlad.
(6:04:03 PM) gquestor2: So, we might as well get started, then.
(6:04:42 PM) kariudo sanjuro: Lantis, would you be so kind as to take minutes?
(6:05:45 PM) LantisEscudo: I'll do my best.
(6:05:59 PM) kariudo sanjuro: I've got my client logging the chat
(6:06:04 PM) gquestor2: And mine, as well.
(6:06:11 PM) gquestor2: Alright, first item on the agenda: Marketing & YouTube.
(6:06:25 PM) gquestor2: This particular item came from both Shin and Koop.
(6:06:36 PM) mirkosp entered the room.
(6:06:42 PM) mirkosp: yaaay
(6:06:45 PM) kariudo sanjuro: yayz
(6:06:45 PM) gquestor2:
(6:06:52 PM) LantisEscudo: Welcome.
(6:06:58 PM) mirkosp: thanks
(6:07:11 PM) mirkosp: I forgot to install aolim after the install, but seemed like the official client didn't allow me to be invited
(6:07:12 PM) mirkosp: :\
(6:07:19 PM) mirkosp: *after the format
(6:07:43 PM) gquestor2: Koop sent an elaborate e-mail with some great reasons for putting an official channel on YouTube.
(6:07:54 PM) gquestor2: His idea was not to host videos from the site.
(6:08:35 PM) gquestor2: Rather, we upload informational videos and the like to invite and teach AMV-minded people from YouTube how to come to the Org
(6:09:01 PM) RadicalYue: Such as the tutorials I've made, the ads for the org Shin and Ileia have made, etc...
(6:10:05 PM) mirkosp: yes, that's what I was thinking as well
(6:10:06 PM) gquestor2: Yup.
(6:10:22 PM) gquestor2: The only thing we need to make sure of is that all media posted is original in content, or can stand up to clear fair use dispute.
(6:10:38 PM) gquestor2: Last thing we want is a copyright holder turning its radar to our site. >_>
(6:11:00 PM) gquestor2: Not that it probably won't happen, but it'll happen faster on YT than anywhere else.
(6:11:03 PM) mirkosp: that shouldn't be a worry, there's a ton of music that's under "remix" creative common
(6:11:24 PM) RadicalYue: It's just really bots that go through and disable the music. But it shouldn't be any problem.
(6:11:25 PM) mirkosp: all that sort of music is fine
(6:11:41 PM) mirkosp: plus youtube has agreements with some majors
(6:11:47 PM) RadicalYue: If there were people going through the videos and going after us, every single herdyoulikeamvs account would take us down
(6:11:51 PM) RadicalYue: They're all linked to the org.
(6:11:55 PM) mirkosp: so for example, it allows even evanescence...
(6:12:11 PM) RadicalYue: Yup. It's become quite a bit more welcoming.
(6:12:29 PM) RadicalYue: I've held my account for years without a single strike.
(6:13:03 PM) gquestor2: Still, if we are going to start out, I'd rather start out slow and basic.
(6:13:14 PM) RadicalYue: That's easy.
(6:13:22 PM) mirkosp: well, if we'll be using it "only" for how to use org tuts and such
(6:13:24 PM) mirkosp: it'll be easy
(6:13:33 PM) RadicalYue: Well, to start with.
(6:13:34 PM) mirkosp: rather, I think we should also use it for actual guides
(6:13:39 PM) RadicalYue: Yeah
(6:13:45 PM) gquestor2: Yue: Exactly, only to start with.
(6:13:49 PM) RadicalYue: There could be a section for tutorials, guides, interviews with editors, etc...
(6:13:52 PM) RadicalYue: Start small and expand.
(6:13:59 PM) mirkosp: (about it, I'd like to talk about avtech later on, as another point)
(6:14:07 PM) RadicalYue: And if we think something steps on toes, it's rather easy to remove a video from youtube.
(6:14:12 PM) RadicalYue: You click "remove"
(6:14:16 PM) RadicalYue: and it's basically done
(6:14:29 PM) kariudo sanjuro: no deletion requests?
(6:14:54 PM) RadicalYue: Yes. All deletion requests must go through Bill Murray.
(6:15:00 PM) RadicalYue: Don't ask me how he got that position.
(6:15:02 PM) RadicalYue: But he did.
(6:15:35 PM) gquestor2: Unfortunately, IRL, it's apparently not that easy.
(6:15:50 PM) gquestor2: For example, Screwattack recently had an issue when one of their trailer videos parodied CSI: Miami (complete with the "YEAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!" music) caused the YouTube channel to be locked by CBS
(6:16:17 PM) gquestor2: The owner went over that it was stupid, but it apparently happened, and they had to jump through a lot of hoops to restore it.
(6:16:31 PM) gquestor2: *restore their account, rather
(6:16:47 PM) RadicalYue: Well, they're a business and they make money off it it. Therefore they fought it.
(6:16:56 PM) RadicalYue: That happens to the org account than it's rather easy to just drop it.
(6:17:07 PM) RadicalYue: Especially since we're not counting on it for a source of revenue.
(6:17:14 PM) d0k1d0k1: If you wanted, a forum tag could be added to embed YouTube videos. And there are mods to restrict bbcodes to certain groups.
(6:17:15 PM) mirkosp: actually if we don't put up ads and such we should be fine
(6:17:40 PM) mirkosp: doki: if we have donators-only youtube embeds we'll get riots
(6:17:50 PM) mirkosp: it might be worse than donators-only edit...
(6:17:52 PM) d0k1d0k1: I was thinking moderators. If you want to post guides.
(6:17:57 PM) mirkosp: ah
(6:18:21 PM) mirkosp: well, it was more for on site and directly youtube
(6:18:29 PM) mirkosp: mostly because, as I was saying, we need to update the avtech
(6:18:36 PM) mirkosp: and people can never be arsed to read
(6:18:43 PM) mirkosp: although there would be so much to say...
(6:19:51 PM) gquestor2: Okay, any other comments or suggestions we can add in?
(6:19:51 PM) mirkosp: that said, who's going to deal with the youtube channel?
(6:20:01 PM) RadicalYue: I've got no problem running it
(6:20:08 PM) RadicalYue: And Jay (Koopiskeva) offered to help.
(6:20:23 PM) mirkosp: sounds good to me
(6:20:27 PM) gquestor2: That's settled, then.
(6:20:30 PM) mirkosp: ok
(6:20:35 PM) kariudo sanjuro: we should come up with some policy on getting a video onto the channel
(6:20:53 PM) kariudo sanjuro: but we can do that on the forums, I think.
(6:21:08 PM) RadicalYue: I don't really see the need to have a strict approval system.
(6:21:19 PM) RadicalYue: I don't believe we plan on adding porn.
(6:21:23 PM) RadicalYue: Or the Avengers movie.
(6:21:40 PM) d0k1d0k1: darn
(6:21:46 PM) RadicalYue: I knoooow, right? T.T
(6:21:46 PM) gquestor2: Well, there's reasons behind having a policy.
(6:21:58 PM) mirkosp: but anime is all about boobs
(6:22:03 PM) gquestor2: Not necessarily for us, but for whoever might succeed us.
(6:22:04 PM) mirkosp: or, well, 58008
(6:22:21 PM) gquestor2: Getting the foundations established now makes it easier for future reference.
(6:22:42 PM) gquestor2: More on that later.
(6:22:47 PM) RadicalYue: Fine. Jay and I will throw something together and I'll post it in the mod section later.
(6:22:58 PM) mirkosp: with enough luck, by the time there will be somebody who'll succeed us, copyright laws won't be as retarded
(6:23:08 PM) RadicalYue: lol, indeed.
(6:23:15 PM) kariudo sanjuro: I was just thinking something to let people know who to talk to
(6:23:37 PM) mirkosp: a topic in site help&feedback should do
(6:23:39 PM) mirkosp: perhaps sticky it
(6:23:44 PM) RadicalYue: Yup
(6:24:07 PM) mirkosp: just tell the basic rules: it's a channel for org and amv related tutorials, and also trailers for org events and conventions and such
(6:24:24 PM) RadicalYue: Yup.
(6:24:26 PM) gquestor2: Ok
(6:24:28 PM) LantisEscudo: That's a good idea. Something along the lines of "Have a tutorial? Want it posted on the Org's channel? Look here for more info"?
(6:24:34 PM) RadicalYue: Yup.
(6:24:52 PM) mirkosp: people then can link videos, whether through file or already tube, and then we can either upload ourselves, or use the feature where you kinda feature a video or however it works
(6:25:07 PM) mirkosp: and damn word play.
(6:25:10 PM) RadicalYue: Yeah, you can choose to add videos to your playlist.
(6:25:18 PM) RadicalYue: It doesn't upload the video to your channel
(6:25:25 PM) RadicalYue: But it helps you say "Hay, this is cool."
(6:25:46 PM) mirkosp: alright, sounds like it could work.
(6:26:17 PM) kariudo sanjuro: sounds like we're all in agreement here
(6:26:23 PM) mirkosp: yup
(6:26:24 PM) gquestor2: Yup
(6:26:35 PM) mirkosp: so we can move to the next point of the agenda (which I don't know...)
(6:26:39 PM) RadicalYue: Yup.
(6:26:42 PM) gquestor2: Well, first, back to the marketing item.
(6:26:45 PM) gquestor2: So far we still have the business cards idea. It does work in face-to-face conventions.
(6:26:47 PM) Person6713: hmmm, I'm heading home. Sounds like I'm not really needed here anyway, unless there is something that needs me...
(6:26:55 PM) gquestor2: I use them all the time and a lot of people are interested.
(6:27:22 PM) gquestor2: Yue, since you're going to NDK, would you want a copy of the proof for there?
(6:27:41 PM) RadicalYue: No thanks. That's not needed at all.
(6:27:49 PM) kariudo sanjuro: Dero: I think you're good to go
(6:27:51 PM) RadicalYue: NDK is plugged with advertisements that are member made from the org
(6:27:55 PM) RadicalYue: Pamphlets
(6:28:00 PM) RadicalYue: The coordinator, and every AMV panel.
(6:28:14 PM) gquestor2: Ok
(6:28:52 PM) RadicalYue: IMO, Vlad has still done the best job ever advertising for the org.
(6:28:56 PM) RadicalYue: I model things after him.
(6:29:02 PM) gquestor2: So do I.
(6:29:04 PM) gquestor2:
(6:29:15 PM) Person6713 left the room.
(6:30:17 PM) gquestor2: So, any other suggestions for broad marketing?
(6:30:22 PM) RadicalYue: In the end, it's up to the editors to plug at the cons. There is nothing we can really do to stick in our hands in it.
(6:30:27 PM) kariudo sanjuro: I don't really have much to say in the way of marketing
(6:31:00 PM) RadicalYue: Beyond putting ads in their booklets. But if you're worried about them going after us for youtube, openly advertising where anime and music industry people can see in the con guides is a terrible idea.
(6:31:17 PM) RadicalYue: It's our job to make the editors who go to these cons WANT to plug for the org.
(6:31:25 PM) RadicalYue: They could just say "look it up on youtube."
(6:31:54 PM) RadicalYue: But if you have someone who is excited and openly talking about being a member, that does a lot more than any planned advertising ever could.
(6:32:07 PM) gquestor2: <--
(6:32:31 PM) RadicalYue: Good.
(6:32:33 PM) RadicalYue: One person.
(6:32:36 PM) gquestor2: Heh
(6:32:37 PM) RadicalYue: Now we just need everyone else.
(6:33:10 PM) LantisEscudo: I know the AMV panels at AB, AAC, and Bakuretsucon plug the org during every AMV event there as well.
(6:33:45 PM) RadicalYue: If you build it they will come. Before we worry about making a scene at the cons we should worry about the current userbase.
(6:34:14 PM) gquestor2: Okay, seems like we're going to be okay for now on this, especially when we can get YT up and running.
(6:34:23 PM) gquestor2: So, now on to the next item.
(6:34:49 PM) gquestor2: David's Beta Support
(6:35:07 PM) mirkosp: that's a tricky point
(6:35:12 PM) kariudo sanjuro: Here we go
(6:35:14 PM) d0k1d0k1: FYI, trythil took me up on my prior offer to restore his original account. He said he's tired of typing five words to login.
I'll do it soon.
(6:35:29 PM) mirkosp: hahah
(6:35:33 PM) RadicalYue: ha, nice.
(6:35:40 PM) kariudo sanjuro: wait, his account got deactivated?
(6:35:49 PM) mirkosp: he changed password
(6:35:51 PM) d0k1d0k1: He randomized the PW and email.
(6:35:51 PM) mirkosp: and trashed it
(6:35:55 PM) mirkosp: yup
(6:36:00 PM) kariudo sanjuro: whoops
(6:36:09 PM) mirkosp: well, he wanted to get the account erased
(6:36:19 PM) mirkosp: I managed to get him to just scramble the login like that
(6:36:23 PM) mirkosp: so it could be retrieved eventually
(6:37:02 PM) kariudo sanjuro: anyway
(6:37:54 PM) kariudo sanjuro: there seems to be a disconnect in people's minds between mods and "site administration"
(6:38:23 PM) kariudo sanjuro: administration doesn't just mean the admins
(6:38:57 PM) kariudo sanjuro: support for the beta from mods should count just as much as if it came from John, Tim, or myself
(6:39:28 PM) mirkosp: well, us mods also have less access and power on the site
(6:39:35 PM) mirkosp: so there clearly are less things we can do
(6:39:43 PM) RadicalYue: Agreed.
(6:40:07 PM) RadicalYue: As for the support, the only person from the administration that was regularly posting in the thread was Nya
(6:40:15 PM) RadicalYue: And that was just to get into fights with David.
(6:40:28 PM) RadicalYue: When I posted it was support. Beyond that, it was silent from the administration.
(6:40:44 PM) mirkosp: honestly I think it's somewhat early to have support on the forum
(6:40:53 PM) mirkosp: as david said, he's going to get more help on github
(6:40:56 PM) kariudo sanjuro: ^this
(6:41:00 PM) mirkosp: since he can better catalog and trace things
(6:41:07 PM) mirkosp: and trash idiot "posts"
(6:41:13 PM) kariudo sanjuro: I just don't see much to say in support or otherwise
(6:41:18 PM) mirkosp: he's dealing with it himself, he should have that sort of power
(6:41:26 PM) RadicalYue: Yes. I'm not saying that everyone should be like "OMG LOOK AT DIS! IT'S AMAZING!"
(6:41:35 PM) kariudo sanjuro: *at this point
(6:41:36 PM) mirkosp: furthermore, as we saw, most people can't seem to understand that it's still in an early phase
(6:41:45 PM) RadicalYue: But a public post of just "keep it up, let us know if you need anything." would be helpful.
(6:41:48 PM) mirkosp: so I think we shouldn't ask people for feedback until most of the site is laid out
(6:41:53 PM) RadicalYue: Or supporting the fact that yes, it is incredibly early.
(6:41:56 PM) mirkosp: and has Ze Pretty Graphic
(6:42:01 PM) mirkosp: so they can know what to do
(6:42:22 PM) mirkosp: there seem to be a few people who understood this, such as code
(6:42:27 PM) kariudo sanjuro: This may be getting a little off topic, but after going over things
(6:42:31 PM) mirkosp: and in fact, he just went and used github
(6:42:43 PM) RadicalYue: yup
(6:43:05 PM) kariudo sanjuro: I think a better way for David to get information out would have been to come to us to get a sticky
(6:43:42 PM) kariudo sanjuro: a single post about getting one of the two subdomains would have sufficed I think
(6:44:12 PM) RadicalYue: Or maybe we could go to him?
(6:44:16 PM) RadicalYue: So it looks like we care a bit more?
(6:44:23 PM) RadicalYue: "What can we do to help?"
(6:44:27 PM) kariudo sanjuro: either way, yeah
(6:44:48 PM) gquestor2: Yue: I did that.
(6:44:52 PM) gquestor2: I am helping him.
(6:45:00 PM) gquestor2: However, the server's not set up yet.
(6:45:17 PM) RadicalYue: Yes. But it would be nice to show the userbase this by just making a post in public that shows this.
(6:45:19 PM) gquestor2: Dero will get him the info when ready, I'm following up to make sure everything's good.
(6:45:23 PM) RadicalYue: It doesn't make it easier and it doesn't cure cancer
(6:45:30 PM) RadicalYue: But it makes us look good to the rest of the userbase
(6:45:40 PM) RadicalYue: Who currently think the administration is lazy and shitty.
(6:46:27 PM) RadicalYue: You gotta play the game and kiss a few babies.
(6:46:40 PM) gquestor2: Sorry, I'm not political.
(6:46:42 PM) kariudo sanjuro: but babies have cooties
(6:46:45 PM) kariudo sanjuro: D:
(6:46:45 PM) gquestor2: This is not a political website.
(6:46:46 PM) RadicalYue: You can make out with the damn babies but if it's behind closed doors no one can see that.
(6:47:01 PM) RadicalYue: Then the response to the administration will say the same.
(6:47:02 PM) gquestor2: Anyone who thinks this site has politics should check that attitude at the door.
(6:47:31 PM) RadicalYue: Then why am I around as a PR mode?...
(6:47:40 PM) RadicalYue: Why would we even care about spreading the word about the org.
(6:47:48 PM) RadicalYue: It's not an issue of politics.
(6:47:52 PM) RadicalYue: It's just good admin'ing
(6:48:20 PM) kariudo sanjuro: I take some issue with that sentiment
(6:48:30 PM) gquestor2: Same.
(6:48:40 PM) RadicalYue: I'm sorry to hear that.
(6:49:13 PM) kariudo sanjuro: the measure of an admin shouldn't be
(6:49:14 PM) kariudo sanjuro: uhh
(6:49:18 PM) kariudo sanjuro: give me a few seconds
(6:49:30 PM) RadicalYue: It's not about how amazing you are as an admin.
(6:49:37 PM) RadicalYue: Post count does not equal value
(6:49:42 PM) RadicalYue: It's just showing people that you care about the site.
(6:49:53 PM) RadicalYue: Why should they care if it looks like the people in charge don't?
(6:50:55 PM) RadicalYue: I had 5 different people PM me today. 5 DIFFERENT PEOPLE with just basic things they needed help on. "Hey, I heard you're an admin and I want to know how to join mini projects. Can you help me?
(6:50:55 PM) gquestor2: I do show people that I care about the site.
(6:51:15 PM) kariudo sanjuro: ok, I think I've got it. The measure of an admin shouldn't be how many pretty words they say, but rather the work they do for the site
(6:51:26 PM) gquestor2: ^ This, overall.
(6:51:32 PM) RadicalYue: But if they can't see the work how do they know this?
(6:51:38 PM) RadicalYue: Have a bit of an ego and brag
(6:51:46 PM) RadicalYue: Show off and it'll look better than nothing.
(6:51:52 PM) mirkosp: exactly why public meetings are a good idea
(6:51:58 PM) RadicalYue: YEEEEEEEEES
(6:51:59 PM) mirkosp: as in, moderated irc chatroom
(6:52:08 PM) gquestor2: So, I guess all of these donation accounts being approved isn't proof enough?
(6:52:23 PM) RadicalYue: How many people actually want to donate to what they consider a dying site?
(6:52:23 PM) kariudo sanjuro: it's just not that visible
(6:52:28 PM) mirkosp: john, users don't know how many peeps are donating either
(6:52:34 PM) RadicalYue: Why did I donate? Because I wanted to edit my posts and that's it.
(6:52:42 PM) RadicalYue: Beyond that, people could care less.
(6:52:51 PM) gquestor2: I really think you are wrong.
(6:52:58 PM) gquestor2: Having seen the data, I know that you are.
(6:53:14 PM) mirkosp: I do think the perks have a say too, though not the edit button
(6:53:15 PM) gquestor2: If that were true, people wouldn't be spending more that $1 or $12 (for larger upload).
(6:53:17 PM) mirkosp: perhaps for some
(6:53:22 PM) gquestor2: A lot more people are spending a lot more than that.
(6:53:26 PM) mirkosp: oh
(6:53:27 PM) d0k1d0k1: It's not really rising,GQ....
(6:53:53 PM) RadicalYue: : /
(6:53:55 PM) gquestor2: It isn't, but we didn't kickstart a lot of things until this year.
(6:54:07 PM) kariudo sanjuro: Now that I think about it a little more
(6:54:21 PM) kariudo sanjuro: a lot of people don't see a lot of things that most of us do on the forums
(6:54:41 PM) RadicalYue: No, no they don't.
(6:54:45 PM) kariudo sanjuro: since new posts started going into the mod queue, nobody is seeing spam posts
(6:55:13 PM) mirkosp: that's for the better, too
(6:55:23 PM) RadicalYue: Yes, but freakin' brag about that.
(6:55:24 PM) kariudo sanjuro: since installing the advanced block mod, fewer spambots are getting through registration too
(6:55:26 PM) RadicalYue: Post in the happy thread
(6:55:31 PM) mirkosp: although I rarely ever notice spam posts these days anyway...
(6:55:34 PM) mirkosp: even in the queue
(6:55:37 PM) RadicalYue: "SPAM FREE SINCE 03! I LOVE KICKEN BOTS OFF MY ORG!"
(6:55:39 PM) gquestor2: That, we cannot.
(6:55:45 PM) mirkosp: might be cause you guys are gettin 'em before I can even see them O:
(6:55:46 PM) gquestor2: Then, someone will find a way around it.
(6:56:02 PM) kariudo sanjuro: well, there's almost always a way around everything
(6:56:07 PM) gquestor2: True, that.
(6:56:18 PM) d0k1d0k1: "Woo, I approved some banners today!"
(6:56:23 PM) RadicalYue: YES
(6:56:26 PM) RadicalYue: That is better than nothing
(6:56:27 PM) LantisEscudo: Well, if we avoid details, just something like "Woo, no new spammers today!"
(6:56:30 PM) gquestor2: *sigh*
(6:56:44 PM) RadicalYue: Tim, you're silent for long periods of time but when you do pop up it's like
(6:56:54 PM) d0k1d0k1: I think I'll change some usernames *before they even ask*!
(6:56:54 PM) RadicalYue: "HAY! Look what I did! I made something amazing that took me months!"
(6:57:09 PM) RadicalYue: We don't need everyone to do that
(6:57:22 PM) mirkosp: so since we talking about posts and we were talking donations, how are numbers doing?
(6:57:26 PM) RadicalYue: But even a little something here and there would show people that the mods still care.
(6:57:30 PM) RadicalYue: Why would it hurt?
(6:57:47 PM) kariudo sanjuro: if all it takes is to brag about the work we do a bit, I think I can stomach it.
(6:57:48 PM) RadicalYue: Why is it that sharing how we're doing donation wise a little more publicly would be a bad thing?
(6:57:53 PM) RadicalYue: YES
(6:57:54 PM) RadicalYue: That's it!
(6:57:55 PM) kariudo sanjuro: can't say it's really in my nature
(6:57:56 PM) RadicalYue: BRAG!
(6:58:22 PM) RadicalYue: Tell us what you're doing!
(6:58:33 PM) kariudo sanjuro: at what point does it become too much, though?
(6:58:40 PM) RadicalYue: Who gives a shit if it's boring, as long as you're doing it it's fine.
(6:58:47 PM) RadicalYue: Well, if that's ALL you post then that's a problem
(6:58:49 PM) gquestor2: *sigh* again.
(6:58:53 PM) RadicalYue: But it just makes you look like an asshole xD
(6:58:56 PM) d0k1d0k1: Sadly, I don't have the hundreds of hours I used to for the site, so updates are slow. I had wanted to work on easier upload, but I can't do it without some changes from dero.
(6:59:05 PM) RadicalYue: Doesn't matter, when you do pull something out
(6:59:06 PM) RadicalYue: It's awesome
(6:59:16 PM) RadicalYue: and they know "dokidoki isn't around because he's working on amazing things!"
(6:59:25 PM) kariudo sanjuro: doki, I can talk to you later
(6:59:38 PM) RadicalYue: Where as those who can't do the big things, we gotta at least show them the little stuff we do.
(6:59:58 PM) kariudo sanjuro: I have some work done on html/php uploading that's just sitting around at this point
(7:00:27 PM) RadicalYue: Santa doki!
(7:00:35 PM) kariudo sanjuro: If memory serves, everything that's needed for it is in place on the server
(7:00:39 PM) RadicalYue: If he gave us stuff all the time, we wouldn't appreciate it lol
(7:02:41 PM) kariudo sanjuro: so, back on topic before moving on
(7:03:07 PM) d0k1d0k1: Latest stats: http://www.doki.ca/temp/monthly_stats_graph.png
(7:03:28 PM) RadicalYue: That's really neat!
(7:04:10 PM) mirkosp: streaming really has a say in activity
(7:04:11 PM) d0k1d0k1: You can see where YouTube started.
(7:04:12 PM) mirkosp: that's good
(7:04:17 PM) RadicalYue: lol
(7:04:18 PM) kariudo sanjuro: I think it's a bit late at this point for any of us to jump on the beta support bandwagon. I'm thinking it's just better to wait for the next thread that david puts up.
(7:04:24 PM) RadicalYue: It makes me want to donate more though.
(7:04:25 PM) mirkosp: I also like the forum post activity
(7:04:26 PM) kariudo sanjuro: sound good/bad?
(7:04:29 PM) RadicalYue: Sure.
(7:04:39 PM) mirkosp: seems to concide with the quickening and poe2
(7:04:41 PM) RadicalYue: Even a simple "keep it up!" is better than nothing
(7:04:49 PM) mirkosp: which means org contest do boost activity
(7:05:11 PM) kariudo sanjuro: did IC4 start in April 11?
(7:05:14 PM) RadicalYue: That's right, Meowth!
(7:05:31 PM) LantisEscudo: March or April, IIRC.
(7:05:46 PM) LantisEscudo: Or at least signups did.
(7:06:12 PM) RadicalYue: I think it'd be neat to make this public
(7:06:23 PM) RadicalYue: If I saw my favorite site was running on empty, I'd want to support it more.
(7:06:43 PM) kariudo sanjuro: so is there anything else to say on beta support, or shall we move on?
(7:06:54 PM) gquestor2: Apparently, everyone wants to move on. >_>
(7:07:16 PM) gquestor2: So, next topic - Revision and "Fleshing Out" of Duties and Rules
(7:08:36 PM) mirkosp: by duties you refer to the forum/site coverage thread thing?
(7:08:57 PM) RadicalYue: That's not really a good list to go off of though.
(7:09:18 PM) RadicalYue: There are quite a few duties people have that I either see them never cover or they're doing other things.
(7:09:19 PM) d0k1d0k1: Corran posted the graph some time ago. I forget when atm.
(7:10:20 PM) gquestor2: Which ones don't you see?
(7:10:24 PM) d0k1d0k1: viewtopic.php?f=70&t=102020&p=1353030&hilit=png#p1353030
(7:10:33 PM) gquestor2: I mean, asides from what you have the authority to see?
(7:11:33 PM) kariudo sanjuro: brb
(7:11:55 PM) RadicalYue: Well, like both you and Kariudo have General Anime but Mirko basically rules that
(7:12:40 PM) RadicalYue: Nya has JCAs but that's not an official event.
(7:12:57 PM) RadicalYue: Just a decent amount of little things that aren't true.
(7:13:03 PM) RadicalYue: The list itself is rather useless.
(7:13:10 PM) RadicalYue: I just fill in where I see needed
(7:13:32 PM) RadicalYue: I know my basic jobs and just try to pick up something whenever/wherever I see it on the forum.
(7:15:40 PM) RadicalYue: Dunno, it just seems redundant and useless. The only people that would could posibly benefit from that list are those who are basic users but they don't have access to it.
(7:15:50 PM) RadicalYue: *that could possibly
(7:16:05 PM) kariudo sanjuro: I don't have much prepared for this
(7:16:23 PM) mirkosp: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=100721
< perhaps we should sort of integrate it into this
(7:16:29 PM) mirkosp: or do like other sites
(7:16:36 PM) mirkosp: which put mod nicks who moderate given sections
(7:16:47 PM) RadicalYue: Oh shit, Aqua and Kalium are still active?
(7:16:52 PM) mirkosp: although they're hidden atm
(7:16:56 PM) RadicalYue: Someone should probably tell them!
(7:17:15 PM) gquestor2: Well, they do know.
(7:17:23 PM) RadicalYue: ...
(7:17:23 PM) kariudo sanjuro: but the way I'm seeing this going is that admins start fufilling more of a managerial role
(7:17:32 PM) gquestor2: Both of them are SuperOps of the IRC, which is technically moderator status.
(7:17:42 PM) gquestor2: It's just not forum moderator status.
(7:17:44 PM) kariudo sanjuro: directing the work of the rest of the moderation team
(7:17:52 PM) RadicalYue: Yes, but I haven't seen them active in quite a while
(7:18:02 PM) RadicalYue: I've seen Aqua pop in and say hi once every couple of weeks
(7:18:07 PM) RadicalYue: But that's the end of it
(7:18:08 PM) mirkosp: akwar is on right now O:
(7:18:21 PM) RadicalYue: I think I've seen Kalium in there maaaaybe once in the past 6 months?
(7:18:27 PM) mirkosp: but yeah, they aren't quite as active as they used to be. real like I figure
(7:18:35 PM) mirkosp: *life
(7:18:36 PM) gquestor2: It is RL issues.
(7:18:59 PM) mirkosp: although tbh the irc isn't quite as active as it was 2 years ago or so
(7:19:04 PM) RadicalYue: Yeah
(7:19:11 PM) kariudo sanjuro: someone needs to break the org
(7:19:15 PM) gquestor2: Right now, it's being mostly handled by the channel ops.
(7:19:18 PM) kariudo sanjuro: instant boost to #AMV
(7:19:25 PM) mirkosp: we need the :A back
(7:19:27 PM) RadicalYue: Then why should we have them as ops?...
(7:19:37 PM) mirkosp: back when it was gaysex :-*
(7:20:03 PM) RadicalYue: Oh yeah
(7:20:09 PM) RadicalYue: Here is Kalium's thoughts on the org
(7:20:11 PM) RadicalYue: Jeremy Wagner-Kaiser What happen?
EDIT: I probably shouldn't ask. I'm so disconnected that it no longer matters.
(7:20:24 PM) RadicalYue: That was when Pwolf posted something about the org on his facebook.
(7:20:36 PM) RadicalYue: Good to know that he's still got a nice status though.
(7:20:56 PM) ***d0k1d0k1 unleashes Chaos Monkey on org
(7:21:11 PM) gquestor2: Also a matter on succession, as in the IRC doesn't have one.
(7:21:53 PM) RadicalYue: imo, Mirko and Ileia should be ops or in charge. They're more active in IRC than anyone else I've seen.
(7:21:59 PM) gquestor2: Being the site admin, I can't be the channel superop at the same time. Too many other moderators and administrators (at the time) thought it too many hats.
(7:22:10 PM) gquestor2: But Mirko's never been a channel op.
(7:22:19 PM) gquestor2: There is a line of progression to follow.
(7:22:23 PM) RadicalYue: But why?
(7:22:31 PM) gquestor2: Because you have to earn your position in the company.
(7:22:33 PM) RadicalYue: I thought this wasn't political.
(7:22:38 PM) RadicalYue: And I think Mirko has earned it
(7:22:43 PM) gquestor2: No, it's not political, it's a company.
(7:22:47 PM) RadicalYue: He's been more active and helpful than anyone else I know.
(7:22:55 PM) RadicalYue: Then he's long overdue for a raise.
(7:23:00 PM) RadicalYue: Get that kid out of the mail room already.
(7:23:34 PM) mirkosp: no, it's fine yue
(7:24:02 PM) mirkosp: i actually would rather not become an op in the irc, it kind of ruins the fun of being in the channel, to a degree
(7:24:08 PM) RadicalYue: ha
(7:24:14 PM) mirkosp: when I chat I don't like to think about mod duty and such
(7:24:15 PM) RadicalYue: But even then, there are better choices
(7:24:24 PM) mirkosp: so it's good for me to just be a normal user there
(7:24:32 PM) RadicalYue: Lantis is the most active op in there.
(7:24:35 PM) gquestor2: And I
(7:24:38 PM) gquestor2: >:|
(7:24:44 PM) RadicalYue: Lantis is the most active op in there.
(7:24:56 PM) mirkosp: i don't see jesse all too active lately, nor kio
(7:25:05 PM) RadicalYue: Yup.
(7:25:09 PM) gquestor2: Well, not much going on, thanks.
(7:25:32 PM) mirkosp: but yes, these days the irc is mostly xnam posting pics
(7:25:33 PM) gquestor2: So, what? We should kick-ban for the fun of it, just so we can say "Hay, guyz, we kick-banned someone today?"
(7:25:34 PM) mirkosp: i guess
(7:25:48 PM) mirkosp: nah, i think you're doing fine
(7:25:50 PM) RadicalYue: Sure, why not? : /
(7:25:55 PM) mirkosp: in the end people are behaving
(7:26:01 PM) RadicalYue: Yes.
(7:26:05 PM) gquestor2: Pretty much.
(7:26:28 PM) mirkosp: it's mostly the same names, we know the rules, so there isn't much moderation to be doing on irc to begin with
(7:26:48 PM) mirkosp: though in the channels in which i'm op, it's a much more relaxed thing, so it's commong to kick each other for the fun of it and stuff
(7:26:59 PM) RadicalYue: But once more, if you're looking at succession the point is that the majority of ops are not active.
(7:27:04 PM) mirkosp: not saying that should happen in #amv tho
(7:27:19 PM) kariudo sanjuro: !kick mirkoasspee
(7:27:34 PM) mirkosp: actually my point is really that I don't think we currently need much in terms of news super ops
(7:27:40 PM) mirkosp: *new
(7:27:54 PM) RadicalYue: Yes. GQ was the one who brought up succession
(7:27:56 PM) LantisEscudo: mirko: It used to, quite a few years ago. Not in a while, though.
(7:28:00 PM) RadicalYue: If that ever becomes something that is needed
(7:28:07 PM) RadicalYue: The current pool is not very bueno.
(7:28:20 PM) RadicalYue: That's my 2 cents.
(7:30:12 PM) gquestor2: So, to sum up, basically a revamp of the SOP (which Kariudo is working on), but duties list is not really cared about?
(7:30:26 PM) mirkosp: i think a duties list is cared about
(7:30:31 PM) mirkosp: just a very simple and public list
(7:30:36 PM) RadicalYue: Yes
(7:30:38 PM) mirkosp: basically, revamp the public topic we have now
(7:30:42 PM) RadicalYue: What good is it to us?
(7:30:45 PM) RadicalYue: We know our jobs.
(7:30:53 PM) mirkosp: so if users want to contact somebody, they know who to contact
(7:30:59 PM) LantisEscudo: Making it public is a good idea. "Have an issue in this section, contact __________".
(7:30:59 PM) RadicalYue: bingo
(7:31:08 PM) mirkosp: hell, I know some people are using phade's mail still
(7:31:13 PM) mirkosp: for generic issues like name changing
(7:31:20 PM) mirkosp: I think we should link that stuff on the main site too
(7:31:32 PM) mirkosp: like "want to change nick? *thread link*"
(7:31:57 PM) RadicalYue: A new FAQ for the forum and general help mayhaps?
(7:32:00 PM) mirkosp: need tech help? *section link* modded by: mirk
(7:32:15 PM) mirkosp: etc
(7:32:17 PM) mirkosp: yeah
(7:32:20 PM) mirkosp: that's what would do
(7:32:48 PM) gquestor2: Hmm... is it a switch or a add-on to phpBB that does that?
(7:33:05 PM) RadicalYue: Or a simple sticky to link to would be good enough. : /
(7:33:09 PM) mirkosp: i wonder... though I was referring to the main site more than the forum
(7:33:09 PM) gquestor2: I know that other phpBB forums do have "Moderator: X, Y, Z"
(7:33:25 PM) mirkosp: yeah, that would be good for the forum too
(7:33:27 PM) kariudo sanjuro: if we're going to be doing that (which I have no problem with, btw), I think it'd be better to stick people in specific sections
(7:33:31 PM) mirkosp: but I think this is info the site needs too
(7:33:39 PM) mirkosp: mostly because there's outdated contact info on the site
(7:33:49 PM) kariudo sanjuro: rather than saying "X takes care of secionts y, z q, and part of b"
(7:33:54 PM) kariudo sanjuro: *sections
(7:34:14 PM) kariudo sanjuro: this is something we can work out in the mod forum
(7:34:31 PM) d0k1d0k1: brb
(7:34:33 PM) kariudo sanjuro: unless someone has prepared some suggestions for structure
(7:34:49 PM) mirkosp: http://www.animemusicvideos.org/home/about.php
this very page here
(7:34:53 PM) mirkosp: needs to be updated
(7:35:08 PM) RadicalYue: Nah
(7:35:15 PM) RadicalYue: I'm gonna email Phade with all my problems.
(7:35:42 PM) gquestor2: Not easy to change those.
(7:35:49 PM) mirkosp: damn
(7:35:53 PM) gquestor2: Again, why we need a new site.
(7:35:57 PM) mirkosp: heh
(7:35:59 PM) mirkosp: good point
(7:36:00 PM) kariudo sanjuro: well, it needs Tim or dero
(7:36:01 PM) RadicalYue: May not be easy but it still needs to be done.
(7:36:09 PM) mirkosp: but yes, the about us page is an important one
(7:36:15 PM) gquestor2: It takes modifying the site code.
(7:36:17 PM) RadicalYue: Then prepare exactly what should be on it and send it to them.
(7:36:25 PM) RadicalYue: Make it as easy for them as possible.
(7:36:49 PM) mirkosp: for starters
(7:37:01 PM) kariudo sanjuro: I can modify site code, but I need Tim or dero to actually get it on the server
(7:37:08 PM) mirkosp: we might want to put something about the beta and the github link for site code issues
(7:37:32 PM) mirkosp: for catalog entry issues, as far as anime sources are concerned, I'm another member to contact I'd say
(7:37:48 PM) mirkosp: then we might want to have a more thorough role list
(7:37:57 PM) mirkosp: pretty much what the thread has, in a way
(7:38:13 PM) RadicalYue: Why don't we all just make a list of what we'd like to be contacted over and then that can be listed
(7:38:16 PM) mirkosp: alternatively, just make the about us page point to the forum threads with the roles
(7:38:18 PM) mirkosp: and we can edit that
(7:38:27 PM) RadicalYue: Instead of asigning people to crap that they won't take care of?
(7:39:00 PM) mirkosp: yeah, that's the point, i believe trythil would like to get people on the beta github
(7:39:24 PM) mirkosp: and I know I don't mind when people contact me about encoding issues
(7:40:07 PM) RadicalYue: I may not be able to tell you how to clean footage, but I don't mind helping new members find their way around at all.
(7:40:36 PM) RadicalYue: I'm fine with contests, general amvs, etc...
(7:40:51 PM) RadicalYue: Like I said, I already just try to fill in wherever I see it's needed anyways
(7:41:05 PM) RadicalYue: I don't see everything though. Damn only having 2 eyes T.T
(7:42:12 PM) kariudo sanjuro: anything else to say on fleshing out duties/roles?
(7:42:33 PM) RadicalYue: I say we all just make our lists and meet up in the mod forum. Then we'll get it out there.
(7:42:39 PM) RadicalYue: Beyond that, not a whole lot else.
(7:42:49 PM) mirkosp: the point in the agenda was also about rules tho
(7:42:52 PM) mirkosp: what about those?
(7:43:28 PM) kariudo sanjuro: that's one of the points we haven't gotten to yet
(7:43:58 PM) mirkosp: john cited it as a single point along with roles, so I kinda assumed
(7:44:04 PM) kariudo sanjuro: oh
(7:44:07 PM) gquestor2: Sorry, meant "roles"
(7:44:09 PM) gquestor2:
(7:44:21 PM) kariudo sanjuro: well, as far as rules go
(7:44:22 PM) RadicalYue: What about the rules needs to be gone over?
(7:44:29 PM) kariudo sanjuro: I am working on the SOP
(7:44:49 PM) kariudo sanjuro: and I encourage you all to look at it and give feedbacks (and perhaps pizza too)
(7:45:12 PM) RadicalYue: http://www.funnycatsite.com/pictures/Nom_Nom_Pizza.jpg
(7:45:26 PM) mirkosp: mmmh pizza
(7:45:29 PM) gquestor2: Ah, the fifth basic universal element.
(7:45:31 PM) kariudo sanjuro: that does not look like a happy cat
(7:45:35 PM) kariudo sanjuro: nor a happy pizza
(7:46:10 PM) kariudo sanjuro: so, can we move on to communication?
(7:46:17 PM) RadicalYue: yup
(7:46:24 PM) kariudo sanjuro: communication
(7:46:27 PM) kariudo sanjuro: we needs it
(7:46:35 PM) ***d0k1d0k1 gives Yue a third eye.
(7:46:37 PM) mirkosp: wait, what kinda communication
(7:46:42 PM) RadicalYue: sweeeeeeeeeet
(7:47:11 PM) mirkosp: do we mean user-administration or between admins or what?
(7:47:12 PM) kariudo sanjuro: honestly, the recent breakdown in our communication made me sad
(7:47:16 PM) kariudo sanjuro: to say the least
(7:47:20 PM) kariudo sanjuro: between agents
(7:47:37 PM) gquestor2: Yup
(7:48:06 PM) kariudo sanjuro: The whole thing made me (and probably John too) feel like you guys didn't trust us
(7:48:13 PM) kariudo sanjuro: or that you felt that you couldn't talk to us
(7:49:04 PM) kariudo sanjuro: please tell me you don't feel either of those things
(7:50:13 PM) RadicalYue: You make it sound like we're intimidated or something o__O
[issue with specific user removed]
(7:53:08 PM) kariudo sanjuro: no, I'm talking about when I found out that you couldn't use your mod powers, yue
(7:53:25 PM) RadicalYue: Ah, that was a fun game to play.
(7:53:26 PM) kariudo sanjuro: which we did talk about
(7:53:30 PM) RadicalYue: That wasn't a matter of trust or anything
(7:53:34 PM) kariudo sanjuro: it wasn't fun for me ;_;
(7:53:43 PM) RadicalYue: But a game to see when someone would notice that I should be added and recognized as a mod.
(7:53:46 PM) gquestor2: If it was a game, I wasn't amused.
(7:53:50 PM) gquestor2: :\
(7:54:00 PM) RadicalYue: George, Mikro, and Nya all knew about it.
(7:54:08 PM) RadicalYue: It was just "how long will it take them before they do this?"
(7:54:15 PM) RadicalYue: And no one died or anything
(7:54:20 PM) RadicalYue: It took about 5 minutes to fix
(7:54:20 PM) mirkosp: actually, I think it was a weird thing mostly due to the timing
(7:54:22 PM) RadicalYue: Sooooooo
(7:54:28 PM) RadicalYue: I don't see why it was such a big deal.
(7:54:37 PM) mirkosp: you were the first new mod after the green nick introduction
(7:55:04 PM) d0k1d0k1: I think I was away for this. Dunno how it happened.
(7:55:12 PM) RadicalYue: Yeah
(7:55:18 PM) kariudo sanjuro: mirko: remember, invisimods aren't given green names until they tell us they want to go public
(7:55:25 PM) kariudo sanjuro: it was the timing, really
(7:55:29 PM) mirkosp: yeah but i thought yue did
(7:55:30 PM) mirkosp: at least
(7:55:35 PM) mirkosp: she made the public thread
(7:55:37 PM) RadicalYue: Yeah
(7:55:39 PM) mirkosp: and said she was a mod
(7:55:40 PM) RadicalYue: Multiple
(7:55:47 PM) RadicalYue: And we discussed this when I put up the merch contest
(7:55:50 PM) mirkosp: but we hadn't agreed on a "this is how you do it" way
(7:55:56 PM) mirkosp: so that might have been part of the confusion
(7:56:03 PM) RadicalYue: I couldn't be an invisi mod because I had to be public.
(7:56:05 PM) kariudo sanjuro: which is why I'm putting that in the new SOP
(7:56:21 PM) RadicalYue: So I figured I'd sit back and wait for someone to notice that I wasn't credited as a mod yet
(7:56:39 PM) RadicalYue: It was fun to see how long an administration would let someone who isn't identified as a mod run around and claim to be one.
(7:56:47 PM) RadicalYue: Without doing something about it.
(7:57:16 PM) mirkosp: actually I think your nick already was in the mod list
(7:57:19 PM) mirkosp: at least in the topic
(7:57:27 PM) mirkosp: it was mostly a logistic thing
(7:57:36 PM) RadicalYue: That list is broken. There are different lists
(7:57:42 PM) mirkosp: true that
(7:57:48 PM) RadicalYue: Hell, on one of them it lists Kariudo as a mod and on the other one he's an admin.
(7:58:04 PM) RadicalYue: I think just about everyone knows you can't trust information about the org or the administration to be true xD
(7:58:06 PM) gquestor2:
(7:58:25 PM) RadicalYue: Hell, like you linked. Even the "About Us" page is broken as all hell
(7:58:31 PM) RadicalYue: You don't even have to log in to see that lol
(7:58:40 PM) kariudo sanjuro: which list am I still listed as a mod on?
(7:59:05 PM) mirkosp: memberlist.php?mode=leaders
if it's this, you aren't even there kar
(7:59:06 PM) mirkosp: lol
(7:59:20 PM) mirkosp: that one is broken
(7:59:23 PM) kariudo sanjuro: that's because I have my status hidden
(7:59:26 PM) kariudo sanjuro: for the moment
(7:59:33 PM) mirkosp: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=100721
this was the one i was referring to
(7:59:34 PM) RadicalYue: memberlist.php?mode=group&g=717535
(7:59:37 PM) RadicalYue: memberlist.php?mode=group&g=717536
(7:59:43 PM) RadicalYue: DOUBLE AGENT
(7:59:46 PM) RadicalYue: SECURITY BREACH
(7:59:49 PM) RadicalYue: WE HAVE A MOD/ADMIN
(7:59:52 PM) kariudo sanjuro: if you hide, you don't show up on that list
(8:00:20 PM) RadicalYue: That's fine. It's got a ton of people who haven't even posted in a year anyways.
(8:00:25 PM) RadicalYue: So I don't go to that for the team.
(8:00:37 PM) RadicalYue: haha, someone asked me who downwithpants was the other day xD
(8:00:47 PM) mirkosp: actually as far as the global moderators list goes
(8:00:56 PM) mirkosp: I *think* phpbb has some dumb limits
(8:01:05 PM) mirkosp: so if you're admin but not global mod too you can't do some things
(8:01:10 PM) mirkosp: I know I had this issue in the past
(8:02:03 PM) mirkosp: so back to communication
(8:02:47 PM) mirkosp: i don't think there's a real issue to be honest
(8:02:54 PM) RadicalYue: Same
(8:03:06 PM) mirkosp: I know i can just query john or open a thread if i need something
(8:03:15 PM) kariudo sanjuro: in the end, between the "how long before the admins figure it out", the redesign threads, and whatever else is going on that I can't remember right now
(8:03:37 PM) kariudo sanjuro: I suppose we misread the situation
(8:03:38 PM) RadicalYue: How long before the admins figure it out and redesign both boil down to the same problem, IMO.
(8:03:49 PM) RadicalYue: And that's just being more active in the community and noticing these things
(8:03:56 PM) RadicalYue: But that's just my opinion
(8:04:01 PM) RadicalYue: It's not a communication issue.
(8:04:52 PM) kariudo sanjuro: that wraps up what I wanted to say on this topic then
(8:05:25 PM) gquestor2: Well, my only question before the next topic is for Yue to define "activity" in the community.
(8:05:33 PM) gquestor2: We really all do our part, in our own way.
(8:05:43 PM) RadicalYue: Well, for the most active members in the community to even know who you are.
(8:05:55 PM) RadicalYue: It's not a good sign when you say " You know, GQ, the site admin!"
(8:05:58 PM) RadicalYue: and they say "Who?"
(8:06:15 PM) RadicalYue: But once more, if you actually make active posts, that'll change =w=
(8:06:28 PM) RadicalYue: I don't feel like copy/pasting those chat logs again.
(8:06:36 PM) RadicalYue: But I can if need be.
(8:07:59 PM) gquestor2: Yeah, and iirc, the last time I asked you to invite me into the chat so that I could actually introduce myself, you brushed it off. :\
(8:08:10 PM) RadicalYue: Yes
(8:08:14 PM) RadicalYue: Because that wasn't the point of it
(8:08:18 PM) RadicalYue: As I said multiple times
(8:08:21 PM) RadicalYue: They don't want a friend
(8:08:26 PM) RadicalYue: They want to see their admins active.
(8:08:31 PM) gquestor2: No, they want someone they can relate to.
(8:08:35 PM) gquestor2: Relationship.
(8:08:36 PM) RadicalYue: Hold on
(8:08:38 PM) gquestor2: Communiity
(8:08:39 PM) RadicalYue: I'll ask them.
(8:09:01 PM) mirkosp: tbh gq looks rather active on the forum to me
(8:09:11 PM) mirkosp: at least he's been recently
(8:09:13 PM) RadicalYue: He wasn't until a couple days ago.
(8:09:17 PM) gquestor2: That, also, in my own way.
(8:09:21 PM) d0k1d0k1: This is starting to look like a game of telephone. oO
(8:09:24 PM) RadicalYue: Thtat all happened after the chat.
(8:09:28 PM) gquestor2: Reason why is, I finally have things to talk about.
(8:09:45 PM) gquestor2: Where as before, there wasn't much on the forums for me to chat much about, asides from running contests.
(8:10:10 PM) gquestor2: Yes, I have a boring ass life in a tiny little town.
(8:10:15 PM) RadicalYue: [link removed]
(8:10:18 PM) RadicalYue: There ya go.
(8:10:22 PM) RadicalYue: It took a minute to copy/paste
(8:10:25 PM) RadicalYue: But I got it.
(8:10:43 PM) gquestor2: If it was that, I could've just given everyone the log file. >_<
(8:10:45 PM) RadicalYue: The responses from the other editors are about halfway down I believe
(8:11:02 PM) mirkosp: orz
(8:11:07 PM) mirkosp: when is this from
(8:11:15 PM) mirkosp: it just looks odd to me tho
(8:11:23 PM) RadicalYue: The day before his interview went up.
(8:11:40 PM) RadicalYue: So, the 9th.
(8:11:43 PM) gquestor2: Still, Shin is not necessarily "the community".
(8:11:49 PM) gquestor2: Neither is Warlike Swans.
(8:11:50 PM) RadicalYue: He was editor of the year
(8:11:55 PM) RadicalYue: the community voted for HIM.
(8:12:01 PM) kariudo sanjuro: we all have many posts
(8:12:04 PM) RadicalYue: And they're some of the most active memebers on the site.
(8:12:11 PM) kariudo sanjuro: GQ has more than some past admins
(8:12:18 PM) kariudo sanjuro: and less than others
(8:12:28 PM) RadicalYue: Shin says he's very sad to not be considered part of the community.
(8:12:51 PM) gquestor2: It depends on what part of the community he wants to be a part of.
(8:13:00 PM) RadicalYue: The general userbase community
(8:13:09 PM) RadicalYue: So much so that he wanted to be a mod and help me with PR
(8:13:15 PM) RadicalYue: But you guys turned him down and told him we have enough people.
(8:13:16 PM) kariudo sanjuro: recent activity means that those newer in the community won't necessarily(sp) have seen him post a lot
(8:13:18 PM) mirkosp: i actually have no clue if we have a clear definition of who's part of the community and who isn't
(8:13:36 PM) gquestor2: That's my point, exactly.
(8:13:40 PM) kariudo sanjuro: people participate in different parts of the community
(8:13:53 PM) RadicalYue: Considering I've spoken to quite a few editors that have come to the site just because he told them about it. I'd say he helps
(8:13:54 PM) kariudo sanjuro: and not everyone knows everyone else
(8:13:55 PM) kariudo sanjuro: yes
(8:14:00 PM) mirkosp: true. i figure if somebody doesn't use the anime and encoding section, they might not know me at all, either.
(8:14:08 PM) kariudo sanjuro: it's good for people to know the site admin
(8:14:15 PM) RadicalYue: And if you don't know how active these editors are, then you should probably get into the forum more. AMV Announcements, Contests, General AMV, etc...
(8:14:19 PM) mirkosp: yue: i know shin has been important for the org
(8:14:27 PM) mirkosp: i'm not questioning that, really.
(8:14:32 PM) gquestor2: And neither am I.
(8:14:34 PM) kariudo sanjuro: but the quality of the job isn't effected by this
(8:14:36 PM) RadicalYue: I know you're not Mirko.
(8:14:49 PM) kariudo sanjuro: shall we move on to the last topic, and make this one of the shorter meetings in mod history?
(8:15:02 PM) RadicalYue: You're missing the point that people that are active on the community and are new editors, the people we want here don't know who is in charge.
(8:15:07 PM) RadicalYue: But if you want to plow past that to finish up
(8:15:08 PM) RadicalYue: Sure.
(8:15:24 PM) kariudo sanjuro: I want to plow past this because it's off topic
(8:15:37 PM) kariudo sanjuro: and you two have discussed it before
(8:15:52 PM) gquestor2: Ok
(8:15:55 PM) kariudo sanjuro: and it's not appearing to be going anywhere
(8:16:15 PM) kariudo sanjuro: do you not agree?
(8:16:19 PM) RadicalYue: Sure, why not.
(8:16:36 PM) gquestor2: Last item on the agenda, Openess and Transparency
(8:16:51 PM) mirkosp: (can we add the avtech point pretty please?)
(8:16:58 PM) RadicalYue: I don't know if we can be open.
(8:17:05 PM) RadicalYue: We discussed so many site secrets here.
(8:17:07 PM) RadicalYue: I'm afraid.
(8:17:18 PM) mirkosp: somebody set us up the bomb
(8:17:42 PM) mirkosp: but well, i don't think we should have issues about being transparent
(8:17:52 PM) RadicalYue: I don't think we have anything to hide
(8:18:09 PM) mirkosp: rather than hide, some things to be kept within mods and such are there, obviously
(8:18:13 PM) RadicalYue: The only thing we've discussed about code is that it's hard to manage and only Dero and Tim can play with that.
(8:18:18 PM) mirkosp: like, contest ideas in the making, or ban and warn discussions
(8:18:27 PM) RadicalYue: I don't know how easily someone would hack the org with that.
(8:18:36 PM) kariudo sanjuro: I agree with Mirko
(8:18:39 PM) RadicalYue: But that's just stuff to be discussed in the mod sections.
(8:18:44 PM) RadicalYue: There is no point in making that open
(8:18:49 PM) mirkosp: yup
(8:18:53 PM) RadicalYue: But like this meeting could have happened in an IRC channel
(8:18:57 PM) mirkosp: but it's not like there's much else hidden to begin with
(8:18:59 PM) RadicalYue: and I think it would've been fine.
(8:19:01 PM) kariudo sanjuro: I don't see any harm in opening up most meetings
(8:19:05 PM) RadicalYue: Hell, I'd be fine with making this chat log public
(8:19:09 PM) RadicalYue: As the first step.
(8:20:17 PM) gquestor2: Well, unfortunately, having open meetings with everyone inside tends to end up rather disorganized and asking for a lot of flaming and a lot of bad commentary.
(8:20:27 PM) RadicalYue: Once more
(8:20:30 PM) d0k1d0k1: If they're muted?
(8:20:30 PM) RadicalYue: Only mods can talk
(8:20:32 PM) RadicalYue: Yes
(8:20:33 PM) mirkosp: yeah
(8:20:35 PM) mirkosp: +m
(8:20:38 PM) RadicalYue: Just like Todd originally suggested
(8:20:38 PM) mirkosp: is what we're talking about
(8:20:41 PM) RadicalYue: DONE.
(8:20:42 PM) mirkosp: indeed
(8:20:49 PM) mirkosp: i don't see how that's a problem
(8:21:01 PM) RadicalYue: Me neither
(8:21:03 PM) gquestor2: Well, then people will basically start complaining about not having their say in the community matters.
(8:21:11 PM) kariudo sanjuro: only problem I could see is if we're talking about specific members
(8:21:17 PM) RadicalYue: Post the log on the forum
(8:21:18 PM) gquestor2: That, too.
(8:21:19 PM) mirkosp: (although imho there wouldn't be many people either way, it's not the most entertaining thing out there)
(8:21:22 PM) RadicalYue: and open it up to discussion
(8:21:35 PM) RadicalYue: If a specific member has something they'd like to bring to the table
(8:21:38 PM) RadicalYue: They can request it
(8:21:47 PM) kariudo sanjuro: or stuff like, "mod x did so and so, and also accidentally 97mb of .rar files, is this bad?"
(8:21:48 PM) mirkosp: reminds me kind of like amv reviews went too
(8:21:51 PM) RadicalYue: And they'll get their chance to speak in the meeting.
(8:22:01 PM) mirkosp: after thing was done, log gets posted and then public discussion on the forum
(8:22:31 PM) RadicalYue: It'd be rather simple to just set up a post and say "Have something you think should be discussed in the meeting? Bring it up here"
(8:22:38 PM) RadicalYue: Then we go through them, determine if they should be or not
(8:22:44 PM) RadicalYue: And if they are, invite that person to speak
(8:23:08 PM) mirkosp: we can just give and take away the v easily, yup
(8:23:27 PM) RadicalYue: Yup.
(8:23:45 PM) mirkosp: basically, we'd set up a specific channel have mods as ops, and admins as sops, and then give voice to the people who asked specific questions
(8:23:59 PM) mirkosp: then once the agenda point is over, take away the voice and give it to the next
(8:24:13 PM) kariudo sanjuro: sounds like it'd work
(8:24:13 PM) mirkosp: after that's all said and done, we'd open a topic for a broader discussion with everybody
(8:24:23 PM) mirkosp: in which we post the log
(8:24:31 PM) LantisEscudo: I like the idea. As long as we avoid discussing specific members or incidents, which should be done in private among the mods. (sorry I haven't been more active tonight, I'm really feeling sick tonight)
(8:24:35 PM) mirkosp: although if many points are discussed, it might be wise to spliut it
(8:24:49 PM) RadicalYue: Then we get those out of the way first
(8:24:52 PM) RadicalYue: Then open up the channel
(8:25:00 PM) RadicalYue: Or just keep the discussion in the mod section
(8:25:13 PM) RadicalYue: No point for us to air out personal business about the other memebers.
(8:25:13 PM) mirkosp: or have the aim meetings for those, simply
(8:25:20 PM) mirkosp: ye
(8:26:36 PM) gquestor2: Sounds good, then.
(8:26:58 PM) mirkosp: do we need anything else about transparency/openness?
(8:27:22 PM) gquestor2: Don't think so right now.
(8:27:22 PM) RadicalYue: Nope. I think it would be a good place to end it and post this
(8:27:42 PM) kariudo sanjuro: I don't have anything else to say on it either
(8:27:42 PM) gquestor2: There should be one edit to this, however.
(8:27:49 PM) kariudo sanjuro: the [specific user] part?
(8:27:53 PM) gquestor2: Yup
(8:27:59 PM) RadicalYue: Yup. That's fine with me.
(8:28:03 PM) mirkosp: heh, my bad
(8:28:09 PM) mirkosp: it didn't even need to be brought out anyway
(8:28:21 PM) RadicalYue: lol
(8:28:25 PM) d0k1d0k1: Don't forget the [redacted] and the [redacted].
(8:28:27 PM) mirkosp: i still don't quite understand what happened
(8:28:31 PM) RadicalYue: I happens. The subject wasn't very difrect haha
(8:28:36 PM) RadicalYue: *direct
(8:28:36 PM) gquestor2: Also probably removing the link to the personal chat between Yue and myself?
(8:28:37 PM) LantisEscudo: Which forum should it be posted in?