2008 Viewers' Choice Awards [OVER!]

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Postby Knowname » Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:28 pm

jasper-isis wrote:The other thing that I have to stress is that we can't promise certain things because we're not the ones who have to potentially work our butts off to program these changes. It might be easy or difficult, but either way I can't just say "sure thing, let's do this" and then turn around and hand everything off to the programmer, especially at this point in the schedule.


goody! we have all year to think about it!! I vote no.
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Postby Knowname » Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:42 pm

godix wrote:Know what the difference between a hell 4 type of MEP and a two person collab is? Hell 4 can have up to 62 people voting for themselves while the other thing has at most two people voting for themselves. In the finals I doubt that's much of an issue but in the initial stages I suspect there's few enough votes all told that this can really make a difference. I do remember several years ago when four of the five dance finalists were MEPs.

... I entirely disagree with TJ's idea of abolishing the MEP category altogether


I think we should put meps back into the dance category. Their dance videos, let the strongest survive. Based upon the fact that dance videos have become a dying breed anyway because all those editors are putting their efforts into meps they've obviously (subconciously) caught on to the fact. We're just running around in circles chasing the golden bear with this mep thing.
I honestly don't know why people can vote for themselves anyway, I know of no other serious contest where that's acceptable practice. Well, besides the US Presidential elections but those are a joke anyway.

I would guess that's because all votes are annonimous and we can't be bothered to write our name down.
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Postby Nessephanie » Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:44 pm

Not all MEP's are dance. So they shouldn't only be in the dance category, simple as that.
I don't agree that the MEP's category should be abolished, Godix posted pretty much everything to say why they do need their own category, they would just overrun other ones, and single vids wouldn't have much of a chance.

I think that Kionon and Godix bring up very good points as to why the collab vids should be separated from the MEP's...Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't think that separating by the number of editors seems that crude of a way of split them...something like 2-6 being a collab and 7+ being MEP's...sure there may be one video or so that falls through the cracks and ends up in the wrong place (which seems to happen in other categories anyways), but overall it would separate the categories quite well...
(again, assuming this could be coded...)

As brad mentioned, my support to figure out how to separate small collab vids from the MEP's was more towards figuring it out for next year, not nessecarily trying to implement something in three days for this year :3 It would be nice, but it's just not practical thinking.
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Postby Nessephanie » Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:53 pm

As well, if not separating by number of editors, I like the idea of adding a new category that can be checked in the video details (with the types of video ie:drama, action etc.) saying the video is an MEP, and separating them that way.
(videos with the check are in the MEP category, all other projects with more then one editor go into the collab category).

I think if a box like that was added and announced, that most people who put together the MEP's in this upcoming year, would check it. This way it gives people the ability to choose whether they think their vid is an MEP or a collab.
(I would also maybe say that when the VCA's start, add something like 'If your video is an MEP, please make sure that you've checked the MEP category on your video' added to the list of things to check to make sure your vids are eligible. Just as an extra reminder...)
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Postby Tsunami Jones » Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:06 pm

Nessephanie wrote:7+ being MEP's...sure there may be one video or so that falls through the cracks and ends up in the wrong place (which seems to happen in other categories anyways), but overall it would separate the categories quite well...
(again, assuming this could be coded...)


Essentially what I see are two different types of MEPs:

1. Lots of individual videos combined into a larger project based on an over-reaching motif (AMV Hell; VG4)

2. Project where the lines between "tracks" are blurred because they flow into each other or are entirely non-existant.

I think that if they would be seperated they would have to be seperated along these lines, and *not* by how many people are actually on the project, be it two or two-thousand.

Like AtomX was saying, cutting it along the lines of the number of participants is very crude and I believe would <i>not work</i>. Also, having to watch every video to decide what would qualify and what wouldn't isn't functional either, has has already been stated. And like Corran mentioned, it's not possible for us to have the system automatically do it . . . unless . . .

we create new genre boxes on the video page, that the head of the MEP can click to distinguish it, and would also let everyone search for those videos more easily (which would have a more valid reason than just providing wankery as a VCA category).

jasper-isis wrote:I don't see a problem with your proposal. TJ?


Sounds fine.
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Postby Nessephanie » Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:17 pm

Yeah, I can understand why it could be seen as crude, and as I posted, I'm all for there being a new category box to distinguish the category :3
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Postby Knowname » Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:44 pm

Tsunami Jones wrote:wankery as a VCA category


that did it for me, I vote yes now!
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Postby Koopiskeva » Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:43 pm

Kionon wrote:
jasper-isis wrote:Making the distinction at 4 collaborators is still pretty iffy; who's to say that 5 or 6 or even 7 editors can't come together to do the same kind of collab? There is no clearly defined difference in number of editors, so the potential for mis-categorization is too great. We need 1) a distinguishing method that is less crudely defined and 2) a set of judging criteria that are easy for voters to understand.


How about this? Instead of focusing on number of editors, let's focus on actual production.

Take a video like VegettoEX and MeriC's "I want to save you" or RRomig and my "Heero's a Mess" and compare those to Conet, Hell, or Ayumix. The former are very different from the latter. The first two are "standard" one-track AMVs but have collaborating editors. The latter three are multi-track bohemoths. The difference is pretty clear.


Basing off your examples Kionon, I don't see the need for this category to be split. Why? Like you said, the first two videos are 'standard' one-track AMVs, but with collaborating editors. Therefore, they are recognized more as a single-person edited video - and people are more likely to give it an award as if it were a one-person-edited video if they are indeed deserving. Case in point, Spoil and Our Innocence will probably take some of the main genre awards this year - because they are both good videos, and both have collaborating editors, but they are not in the traditional 'large MEP' style - Hell 4 and other large MEPs will not even be considered by the audience for the main genre awards of the VCAs. Except perhaps comedy.

And as it stands, there are plenty of categories for these videos already without them having to take a separate category since they are mainly seen as a regular AMV. If a 'standard' one-track AMV is good enough to win a certain genre, it doesn't matter how many people were involved. And as TJ was stating earlier, large MEPs have a much lesser chance of winning most other categories because of how diversified they are - good at everything, but not the best at one thing.
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Postby godix » Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:16 pm

Koopiskeva wrote:Case in point, Spoil and Our Innocence will probably take some of the main genre awards this year - because they are both good videos, and both have collaborating editors, but they are not in the traditional 'large MEP' style - Hell 4 and other large MEPs will not even be considered by the audience for the main genre awards of the VCAs. Except perhaps comedy.

Except that under the current rules Spoil is not eligible for the VCAs. From the <a href="http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members/amvvca/2008/myqualified.php">qualifying page</a> "You must have one and only one membership account." The editors on Spoil have <a href="http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members/members_myprofile.php?user_id=451067">individual</a> <a href="http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members/members_myprofile.php?user_id=410585">accounts</a> then another <a href="http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members/members_myprofile.php?user_id=443324">shared account</a>. Now I'm not trying to get Spoil disqualified here. The multiple accounts aren't for harassment reasons or sockpuppeting like most multiple accounts are and I doubt it's to bypass the automatic systems to tell if a video is a collab or solo work either. As far as I can tell it's just a misunderstanding on how studios are credited on the org. Personally I wouldn't disqualify it if I had any say about it. However it is technically violating the rules and to use it as an example just means you're suggesting that what we need are more people to violate the rules.

As for Our Innocence, I think that's only eligible for best collab. IIRC last year the system automatically excluded any video with more than one creator from being voted on for any other category. I may be misremembering or it may be done differently this year though. If I am right though then Our Innocence is an excellent example of why there should be a difference between large MEPs and collabs.
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Postby Koopiskeva » Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:02 am

godix wrote:IIRC last year the system automatically excluded any video with more than one creator from being voted on for any other category. I may be misremembering or it may be done differently this year though. If I am right though then Our Innocence is an excellent example of why there should be a difference between large MEPs and collabs.


If that is true, then I didn't know that and it would make sense to have a separate category. Considering how much both of these videos have been pimped in the VCA promotion forums under the main genre categories, I was under the impression that they were eligible.

Hoever, I just recently checked the final vote videos for the 2007 VCA and World's Unbroken, which were edited by both Sierra Lorna and Silvermoon, was a nominee in the best dramatic, romantic, and sentimental categories. I also checked the 2006 VCA which had I Walk Alone, which was edited by both MeriC and VegettoEX, in the finals for best character profile and dramatic. So, I believe you've misremembered - and my opinion stands.
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Postby Brad » Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:04 am

Brings up a good point. Are multi-editor videos (ie; any video with more than one person listed) eligible for any category? I only bring it up because I really don't remember any of the big MEPs ever being eligible for nomination for the individual categories (if they were, wouldn't AMV Hell 3 at least have been nominated for Best Comedy in 06?). Or is it simply coincidence/user-understanding that prevented these nominations? Bringing this to light would certainly help clarify the distinction. Because if they are NOT eligible for the individual categories, what is it that set them apart? Since if I'm understanding correctly, currently there ONLY thing that defines a collaboration or multi-editor video or what have you is simply the database showing more than one editor. And if those were ineligible then, but other collaborations were, who went through and singled them out?

To be honest, the ONLY reason I even thought about this distinction (other than Ileia's idea for Best Duo) was the fact that the category name (in the VCA Forum anyway) was labeled as "Best Collaboration" instead of "Best Multi-Editor Project/Video" as it has been called in earlier years, which to me was meant to give special recognition to those bigger projects specifically.
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Postby godix » Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:38 am

Well at the moment I've heard three theories. First being that anything with more than one creator is only available for best collab. Second being that MEPs are eligible for every category in addition to best collab. And third someone mentioned that previous years they thought anything over three people was best MEP only and anything with less creators than that was in the regular categories. So, can we get an admin to clear up what exactly fits in the best collab group and if MEPs can compete in the other categories as well?


Personally I think the third way is the best to way to go so if it isn't how things are perhaps it's how things should be.
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Postby Darius GQ » Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:56 am

Hmm. Unfortunately we were unaware of the rules, with regards to several accounts on a-m-v.org, which is why we are apologizing in advance in case there are some problems in this regard. The reason for which we did not add our separate profiles to the amv “Spoil”: we were worried that the same mix up will happen as last year at VCA 2007. Our work “Freaks” was for some reason entered for the competition as MEP, although we wanted to apply for best action of the year. Naturally, we could not win anything as a MEP, while at the same time missing out on “best action of the year” nomination. Which indeed was very sad. This is the main reason for our action. Speaking of multiple accounts, one of Scorpions ULTD. Also has an old account, which got abandoned after the “Whisper of the Beast”, since guys don’t work together anymore. This didn’t stop them from participating in VCA 2005. To cut a long story short, we would definitely hope to not get disqualified due to the multiple account reason. And of course, we are not aiming for the “Best Collaborative Video” nomination, as it would’ve been wrong.
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Postby JaddziaDax » Sat Jan 19, 2008 9:09 am

not to mention sierra and silver moon have accounts together, and if i recall correctly so does shining finger studios O:
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Postby Knowname » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:40 am

I wouldn't worry about the multiple accounts thing... there should be stipulations
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