A note about YouTube

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Postby Gepetto » Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:48 am

genestarwind21122 wrote:Hypothetically let say the worst case scenario happens and the org is not allowed to host "label" bands. That still doesn't mean we have to shut down the org. As creators we still have options. If you go to myspace.com you can find plunty of local bands and ask to use their music. Or even yourself you can start using your own music if you have a band of your own. So while it would be a shame that we would loose a lot of music to work to that we could not host on the org, there are still other options out there.


But you're overlooking another side of this:

Phade wrote:Now to make things even worse for us, YouTube has forced a previously quiet player to the forefront:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061020-8038.html


There's no such thing as "label-anime" and "non-label-anime". Worst-case scenario: If TV Tokyo, for example, decides that we should remove all videos that use anime to which they have license, we take a big hit. Others follow, and now we can only have videos like Lost Kitten and Greed vs Envy that use original animation. Then the org would become something almost identical to DeviantART (except for the forums, which stand for 89% of my time here, but are used by less than half of the community).

However, I do agree with godix in the sense that the corporations have bigger fish to fry. Also, these bigger fish have a tendency to respawn and reproduce (e.g. Napster -> Morpheus -> KaZaA -> Shareaza -> LimeWire & SoulSeek, not to mention the titan eMule) and are used by many more people than a-m-v.org. But if they do run into us (which isn't that difficult, just see what trythil found)

trythil wrote:(1) They had (have) strong links to this copyright underground. [url=http://www.google.com/search?q=site%youtub.com+animemusicvideos.org]Here is an example.[/url]


then we'll have a hard time surviving. One could say that we'll just have to remove the videos (like what happened with the Evanescence label) but I'm actually surprised that it turned out the way it did. Having to shut down the videos and pay a gargantuan fine for material damages is far more likely, from my point of view. And if the fine is too much, the site would have to shut down, along with these forums. If I believed in God, I'd pray every day for this not to happen, but it can happen.

About blaming YouTube, I do think we should. Policies apart, they draw attention. Period. Attention is what this is all about, and the org only lived this long because we didn't get any from the big guys. Ethically and morally, the sites are the same (at least on the paper); The people who use them are different. The fact that illegaly uploaded movies, TV hows, anime, videoclips and even commercials pop up every second on the Tube, along with the fact that they have millions of users, made it notorious. The Tube is a big precedent, and that's reason number 5 why it's dangerous.
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Postby Zarxrax » Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:16 am

Chill out guys, I dont think the world is going to come crashing down quite yet... If they wanted to do anything about us, don't you think they would have done it already? I don't know why some people have this odd notion that we are "underground" and no one knows about this site. If you do a google search for "music video" this site is on the first or second page of results. It's been that way for a very long time. Only a fool could think that they aren't yet aware of this site.

Now assuming that they are aware of this site, and have been for some time, what has changed here? Absolutely nothing.
Will more labels ask for their videos to be removed in the future? I absolutely believe they will. Maybe the whole RIAA will even ask for all their works to be removed at some point, as is the doomsday scenario that is being spelled out. I don't doubt that it may happen. But not right now, and not just because of Youtube.
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Postby Scintilla » Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:41 am

rubyeye wrote:Interesting reading here. But I also had a crazy thought: Would it be possible for Phade @ Co. to SELL a-m.v.org much the same way 'the Tube' was to Google? I don't know how a website is bought/sold that wasn't designed to generate profits in the first place.

God, I hope not. It's bad enough, all the news recently about what the company that LiveJournal got sold to is trying to do.

... I feel a lot better about donating now.
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Postby Lyrs » Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:52 am

If the Org has to shut down the Golden Doughnut, we'll just have to move to Torrent based file sharing.

Once the site can no longer offer torrents, we'll just have to link to sites that do offer torrent hosting.
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Postby linuxkid76 » Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:25 pm

It seems someone has stolen my november rain video and posted it there. It really pisses me off because I put a lot of work into it, making it with my sister OVER AIM. >< Anyone know how to get them removed? Last I tried to visit the site it didn't exsist.
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Postby SSJVegita0609 » Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:06 pm

rubyeye wrote:Would it be possible for Phade @ Co. to SELL a-m.v.org much the same way 'the Tube' was to Google?


Short Answer? No.

Money on the web for free sites is made through eyeballs and advertisement, just like Television. The org being sold would be a legal disaster, plain and simple. The moment words like "Profit" enter the picture, everyone and anyone who can make money off you will sue sue sue.
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Postby Gepetto » Sun Oct 22, 2006 6:43 pm

linuxkid76 wrote:It seems someone has stolen my november rain video and posted it there. It really pisses me off because I put a lot of work into it, making it with my sister OVER AIM. >< Anyone know how to get them removed? Last I tried to visit the site it didn't exsist.


Wrong place to ask that, kiddo. But just email the admins there. If you can prove that it's your vid, they'll take it down. Or not.
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Postby Lyrs » Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:40 am

Lyrs wrote:If the Org has to shut down the Golden Doughnut, we'll just have to move to Torrent based file sharing.

Once the site can no longer offer torrents, we'll just have to link to sites that do offer torrent hosting.


And if we go for torrent:
http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/06/10/27/0119226.shtml

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Postby JaddziaDax » Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:36 am

well if retards would stop uploading full episodes (even breaking them down to 10 min segments) then im sure that the japanese companies probably wouldnt have as big of a problem :/

i donno... im still thinking i should just take down my videos and if others want to upload them for me then so be it :/ i havent uploaded my latest yet... and im not sure if im going to :/
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Postby Bakadeshi » Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:06 pm

Zarxrax wrote:Chill out guys, I dont think the world is going to come crashing down quite yet... If they wanted to do anything about us, don't you think they would have done it already? I don't know why some people have this odd notion that we are "underground" and no one knows about this site. If you do a google search for "music video" this site is on the first or second page of results. It's been that way for a very long time. Only a fool could think that they aren't yet aware of this site.

Now assuming that they are aware of this site, and have been for some time, what has changed here? Absolutely nothing.
Will more labels ask for their videos to be removed in the future? I absolutely believe they will. Maybe the whole RIAA will even ask for all their works to be removed at some point, as is the doomsday scenario that is being spelled out. I don't doubt that it may happen. But not right now, and not just because of hosatchel.


I agree with Zarx on this, even with the evanescence thing, the girl singer in the group even commented on a video that used her song on this site. The only reason the evanescence thing happened is because the lawyers had to take action because of 1 fan's mistake. They know we exist. If they thought of us as a major threat, we would have already been shutdown long ago.

I believe the industry sees free advertisement in what we do on this site (How many of us have heard a song in an amv and immediately went out and bought the CD? Same could be said of an anime as well. ), so have turned a blind eye to us, and will probably continue to do so unless they see no profit in it. Remember, corporations are only concerned with 1 thing in the end, and everything they do is to that end, and that is to make money.

As for the idea of turning over to youtube for this very purpose, It may happen, and it may not, I do see the potential threat in this happening, but I think we have pretty much kept an amiable ...uh... whats the word... unspoken agreement with the label companies over this site, by as phade said, restricting what we host and having ethical guidelines about what does get hosted, so I think unless we become a major threat, they'll leave us alone. (Not to mention pissing off everyone on this site by closing us down may not be very good for their sales, since we buy everything we use alot of times just to use on our amvs, and most of us will not want to go to yuutube as an alternative ;p)
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Postby BasharOfTheAges » Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:34 pm

Bakadeshi wrote:The only reason the evanescence thing happened is because the lawyers had to take action because of 1 fan's mistake.


I don't buy that unless it's a version of copyright law unique to music. Wanna know why? Narutofan has been reported to funimation countless times over the past few years and they've done nothing. The site's up and running and still charging people for anime downloads. Using the "they have to do something" argument, it follows that they can no longer file suit against anyone selling bootlegs of their products, making amvs, etc... and I doubt that's the case.
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Postby BauziOLD » Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:20 pm

Bakadeshi wrote: I believe the industry sees free advertisement in what we do on this site (How many of us have heard a song in an amv and immediately went out and bought the CD? Same could be said of an anime as well. ), so have turned a blind eye to us, and will probably continue to do so unless they see no profit in it. Remember, corporations are only concerned with 1 thing in the end, and everything they do is to that end, and that is to make money.


I agree totally to it. Without amv´s I would NEVER know about a lot of my favorite bands and yes I buy theire records and also I bought a lot of anime stuff. There are still editors with a high codex. I know someone, that really only uses things he bought. He also wrote down in his video credits, that he used the DivX 7 (uhm... he didn´t really knew about XviD ^^' )and Adobe Premiere Trial to show others, that you can make cool amvs without "steal" something.
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Postby downwithpants » Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:00 pm

BasharOfTheAges wrote:
Bakadeshi wrote:The only reason the evanescence thing happened is because the lawyers had to take action because of 1 fan's mistake.


I don't buy that unless it's a version of copyright law unique to music.

my guess is that music industry lawyers are more likely to react than anime industry lawyers because we use entire songs, but only small samples of anime episodes, giving us a better shot at a fair use defense against anime industry than against music industry.

we can get away with showing AMVs at an anime convention in which dozens of anime industry representatives attend, but i'd doubt we could do it in some music industry conference without licensing fees.
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Postby Kalium » Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:35 pm

It's been pointed out to me that the anime industry in North America is a fairly fragile one. Any major move that pissed off the core fanbase would rebound very badly. These companies rely on and need the goodwill of the hardcore fanbase, and we (and those like us) are a not insignificant part of that.

If and when the anime companies hit the point where they are as insultated from a relatively small group as the RIAA and co is, then things may change. Not before then.
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Postby Bakadeshi » Sat Oct 28, 2006 1:03 am

BasharOfTheAges wrote:
Bakadeshi wrote:The only reason the evanescence thing happened is because the lawyers had to take action because of 1 fan's mistake.


I don't buy that unless it's a version of copyright law unique to music.


In that case, it was the music industry that took action, as was noted by others already, the Anime companies here are not nearly as powerful as the record labels to just do whatever they want with little consequence.

On that note, I am a bit surprised the narutofan that hosts a wealth of licensed anime has not been taken action against yet....My guess might be because they ask you to pay for bandwidth, they do not see it as as much of a threat to risk loss of fan support as would a freely available download site such as Animesuki.( even though its bittorrent, not direct hosting) But you'd think that it would at least get the attention of the Japanese Giants as did animesuki, and was forced to stop hosting certain titles.
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