Some Videos No Longer Available [Follow-up]

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Postby jethropr » Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:22 pm

aielI_Ileia wrote:
jethropr wrote:
JaddziaDax wrote:due to the "you must download the local video inorder to leave an opinion rule"


you sure?

Last time I checked, ops could be given to any video, but only star ratings and quick comments could be given to local downloads.


http://www.animemusicvideos.org/phpBB/v ... hp?t=58238


Hey,

The new requirement is only in place for locally available videos. If a vid is only available externally, an opinion can be left at any time.

Phade.


I was partly correct
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Postby aoi_neko » Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:56 pm

Need to know," x_rex30? Considering the number of members here? Two can keep a secret if one's dead, and we've got alot more than two. But ANN is still sort of "in the family." I'm just dreading that it's going to get picked up by BoingBoing or Slashdot....

And, if I'm going to comment at all, I guess I should say that I really DON'T BLAME the people involved. Certainly not the bands; not the lawyers -- who could have done much. much, worse; not even the label, because I think your average label "executive" couldn't just make it all OK even if s/he wanted to. If you're looking to blame someone look to your elected representatives and your courts.

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Postby DTJB » Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:12 pm

I've been going through what's been said here and I can understand how a lot of people can be upset about it. But my feelings are that, if a lock down of this site comes as a result of what has happened, my feelings as an editor are simply, oh well. As a member of this community, it would be upsetting to know that I wouldn't be able to communicate with most of you here, unless the forums were left intact or a separate site were created for such a purpose. But simply, as an editor, it wouldn't really matter to me that much. Like many people here, I find AMV editing to be nothing more than a simple hobby, and because I have other things to deal with in life (school, work, other hobbies, laziness), I can't spend all of my time working on an AMV.

Things is, I wanted to make AMVs long before I even knew other people made these things. It's just something I always wanted to do for fun 'cause I'm really just making them for my own amusement. Sure I show them to my friends all of the time and I enjoy hearing that they like them so much. And if it comes to the point where people can't download my videos (when I finally get around to uploading them :roll:, I'm currently working on doing that), I'm still going to keep making them, I'll just have a smaller audience to work with. I hope people don't get too bent out of shape because of what could happen. As it's been said, we still have the conventions which allow us to show them to others, and we can always show off our talents to our friends. So don't quit your hobbies because of one little incident, have fun with it and keep having fun with it, because if you're not doing it for the fun of it, well, why are you doing it?

Sorry if I'm just regurgitating what's already been said, but I had to speak my mind about it.
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Postby MysticalTiger » Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:22 pm

People in this country are WAAY to sue-happy and greedy.. No wonder other countries hate us. :roll:

I know a lot of you are going to yell at me and disagree and blablabla. But, I wanna say it.

I understand where they're coming from, but I dont think they understand what their doing. It's not Mp3 Distribution. It's people who own anime and CDS, they put them together, and then they send them to each other. I dont see the problem with that. I am especally angry that I used all that time to create something that NO ONE else can view. It's total crap. If someone wanted to use music from my band, i'd say "go right ahead". I like to see people enjoying my music and finding a creative outlook on it. I dont want to hold back people from listening to my music because they dont have enough money to go buy the CD. Hey, if Yahoo can offer Music Videos, why cant we?

Another thing- As long as there is a way, people will do it. Their so-called stealing music is such a load of crap. It's like copyfit money. Theres no WAY your going to stop it. As long as humans exist, they will try to get things the easy way. Music, in my opinion, should not be so darn expensive. It's like water. They charge for it- but they have no right to.

I wish people would stop sucking up to the old people on the RIAA. They dont know a key signature from a CD player and are better money hogs they musical regulators. >.< I bet they still think music is played on records for heavens sake.

..Okie.. I needed to get that out of my system. I know it's not helping or hurting anything, but I need to rant. It's like taxes. You rant and rave about them, but you eventually need to do them. Anywho. This is me, being angry because I just lost 5 of my best AMV to this stupid greedy american crap.

I still like Evanescence, though. *laughs* I just did a speech on them the other day. XD
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Postby badmartialarts » Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:27 pm

My new .sig sums it all up for everyone involved, I think.
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People, Phade is right...

Postby LoCInuyasha » Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:28 pm

They didn't do this out of greed or cruelty at all. Copyright laws are copyright laws, and, what some of you may not be aware, the Record Companies are currently in actual DANGER.. Canada recently passed laws making it legal to pirate any music, only to not distribute it.. And we're not talking about fan works like AMVs here, we're referring to the whole deal...

If you guys really WANT to see action... Do write the record company that did this (I already forgot the name), but in a NICE AND POLITE WAY.. Explain that you have purchased their works and wish to use them for a fan tribute, and share them in a way that will lead to more sales on their part..

It'll take a WHOLE LOT LESS people nicely asking this to get action than it would people boycotting....

--LoCInuyasha
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Postby echo104b » Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:06 pm

Zig-zag wrote:*puts copyright on my AMVs*

And if anyone thinks I'm serious... I laugh at you.


if you read the Laws for Copywrite, it reads that Once you create something, be it an item or idea, that Thing becomes copywrite to you.

So technically, you already have copywrite to them.

What Wind Up records did was revoke your ability to use their idea as a part of your idea.

So without their Idea, your idea is no longer under protection because it isnt complete anymore.

so, now that the video is no longer copywrite to you, you can no longer distribute it as yours. and Thusly it must be removed.

At least thats how i think it works.
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Postby SQ » Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:14 pm

Phade,

In the first thread you said if the catalog entry for an affected AMV remained a catalog entry, it was okay, unless the video was on our own webspace.

Does this mean that the record-holders will potentially go through the list and contact the webhosts of the creators, like the example of greenjinji, and give us C&Ds also(assuming they're extremely thorough with their C&Ds)?

And also, has the same action been taken with animemusicvideos.com?
And could the action ever be applicable to amv.com?

Thanks in advance.
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Postby x_rex30 » Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:33 pm

badmartialarts wrote:THIS ORG JUST WONT HEAL
THE PAIN IS MUCH TOO REAL
THERE'S JUST SOME VIDS THAT PHADE CANNOT ERASE...
lmao :lol:
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Postby yuppa » Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:53 pm

ok^^ i think you guys should know.. That MEGATOKYO is talking about this. and are basically saying stuff that the companies are right. I dont agree with it personally. its just basically "fan made" tributes to th esongs and the anime they love. Ah well.. phade ya could just change the name of the site, everytime a sumons comes up so its wrong every time. eventually changing its name will wear on their nerves and say screw it.

Oh heres the link of the topic here....

http://forums.megatokyo.com/index.php?s ... try4015579
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Postby trythil » Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:08 pm

yuppa wrote:ok^^ i think you guys should know.. That MEGATOKYO is talking about this. and are basically saying stuff that the companies are right.


Good for them. Megatokyo is the sort of place that I'd expect to stop at the legal reality of things and say "oh well, they must be right."

everytime a sumons comes up so its wrong every time. eventually changing its name will wear on their nerves and say screw it.


No. If necessary, everyone involved will just be heavily fined for willful copyright infringement. That works in the United States, at least.
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̄̒̋͌̅̚͏̷̡̡̛̯͙͉̭̠̗̗͖̥̬͓̩̦⃧̀̈́̆̾ͩ͐͑̆̈́ͧͥ̀͘ͅ҉̸̴̷̴̡̨̧̧̼͔͉̣͕̫̗̰̠̳͈͚̟̮̭͇̼̰̜̪͚̬͍̭̤̰̙͈̮̹͍̙̝̩̻͕̤̩̼͚͈͕̜̼̮͇̘͙̺͕͔̭̣͚̫̻͔͖̖͇̣̦̮̘̖̳͇̙̮⃧ͧ̏͒̐ͥ͛̄ͥ̒̎̊ͧ̏̐ͧ͋͌̅⃧ͦͫ̅̍͌̒̏̍̏͛ͮͦͤ͐⃧̂͂̑ͫͥ́⃧͊ͯ̓̉ͧ̓̿ͫ̎͗̑ͥ̆̽̆ͨ̌ͥ́⃧̽͋̎̌ͨͭ̌̉́̚͘̚̚͜͢͢͠͠͝͡ͅ͏̵̧̧̡̡̡̛̮̠͙͖̖̱̹̞̫̜̫͉̥̙͉̝͉̭͇̳͇͔͓͓̩̰̳͓̜̻̘̬⃧̀̾͑͊͑ͯ͑ͨͤ̀⃧͊͌ͫ̒ͮ͌̑͌̇̀̕ͅͅi̷̴̴̶̷̴̵̡̡̛̺͎̪͇̗̺͖̭̻͇̳̝̹͓͙̹̭͓̰͔̯̣̺̹̜̠̮̦̬͍̯̮̜̱̜̩͈̗͙̖͚̰̩͇͕̥͙̫̱̪͇̙̩͈᷂͕̙̘̼̰͎̳̹̼͈̘̗͗ͤͩ̇̒̍̍ͭͥ̓⃧̂ͭ̆̂̒͆̀ͭ͆ͦ̀ͦ̋̓ͮ⃧ͪͩͬ̍͛ͫ͐ͭͨ͌ͫͪ̀᷁͋̿ͬ̓̉͛́́̌̓ͩͫ̓͋̃ͧ͒́́⃧ͧ̋ͧ̓̑ͤ̽ͩ̓ͥͭ̓͊͋͑̌͋́͂⃧̂͊ͪͬ̏̿͒̿̾̊ͤͩ͐͋̏̑̂̒ͫͮ͐̎͌̄̄̉̍̽̉̊́̿̒̄⃧͊͌͆̀͛ͧ̌ͬ̌̀̿͛ͧ̈́̌̉ͤ̄̀͘͘̕͘͟͟͢͝͡͝͝͡͡ͅͅ҉̷̣̯͎̳̥̳̲̱̰̱̺͖̹͎͉̪⃧̉ͮ̈̾̄̕͢ͅ͏̗̞̦̩̪͔̩⃧̿̈́͑ͯ̉ͦ͊̍͟ͅ͏̷̴͍͕͙͙̩̥̩͕̘͈͙͙⃧ͭ̓̈̏̔̎̓͊̚͞s̶̵̵̵̸̵̵̢̨̡̧̨̢̡̨̧̛̛̫̭̥̘̰̗̩̪̲̯͙̟̻̦̳̹̭̦̫̞̩̯̣̹̪̠̟̝̦̙͕̥͚̱͎̰̪̥̲̩͎̣̯̗̜̯͈͖̻̠̩͓̜͈͕̹̺̩͈̮̠̮͇̻̺̹̮̞̰̮̦͉͇̘̦̲̰͎̙͓͎͖͓̜̟͍̬̬̞̘̖̹̮̤̪̘̜̖̠̳̪ͩ̽̔͒ͤͭ̉͆ͨ͗̇̋⃧̎̄ͯ͑͂̑̌̉̌͐ͣ⃧͗́̎ͣͭͧͯ͛̒⃧ͩ̊͆ͭͣ̅⃧ͤͬ̃̾ͦͬͥ̑ͩͫ̎ͨ̀̓͒̏́̀⃧ͤ̍ͨͣ⃧̅̃͛ͤͨ̌ͮͦ͑ͮ͌̈́ͦ̀⃧͆ͦ̅͛̓⃧ͯͪ̿̉̒ͥ̒̕͘͘̚̚͟͟͢͢͞͡͡͠͠͡ͅͅͅ ̴̵̴̢̢̨̧͈̜͇̤͈̩̲̹͕̲̞̫̹̼̭͎̪̘̲̼̫̹̮͙͈̰͚̣̰̞̼̜̼̞͙̯̟͕̭͇͔̲̰̳̪̳̘̫̼͍̋ͦ̎̋̊̆̃̊ͥ̔⃧̆̐͌̏̀⃧̾̀ͤͬ͂̌ͣͣ͂̉ͮͬ⃧͊̏̌͂ͣ̒͑͑̈́ͩͭ͑́ͪ̌ͦ⃧̋̀̀ͣͧͩͣͭͣ̚͟͢͠͠͡ͅ҉̷̷̡̮͓̥̩̲̣̥̮̞̱̼͔͔͇̺̬̠̬̥͕̦̺̳̤̥̟̭̲̳͈̟͖⃧͂̆̀͗ͦ͛̾̓͌͒̅̆̊ͬ̍̽͛̐⃧ͩ̎̀̆̐ͭ̂ͭ͑ͤͪ̀᷉͌̐͆̓̅͗̊ͤ̓ͥͣͫ̾̚̚͞͝͝҉̢̢̛̖͍̗͇͚̘̭̠̦̖͈͎̩̭̖̩̹͍̼̝̥̱̳⃧͌͌͌̈́⃧̇ͦͮͮ̚̚͟a̛̲̫͈͇͇͙͚̥͋̅ͫ̽̍̀ͬͭͨ́ͭͩ̍̍ͥͣ̑̀⃧̽̓ͨͧ̏͘͢͝͝͏̵̢̭̰̱̤̣̳̣̥̪̪̱̘͖͎̟̱̭́⃧͋̔̇͗̋͆ͤ͏̷̨̟̙̝͈̬̟⃧̑̂̍ͣ͗ͮ̑̑̉̅ͬ̄͛̽ͥ̿̀͡͏̷̵̴̵̴̴̢̡̧̙̹͎̮̯̺͖͈̲̞̭͇̫̘̝̰͓͙͎̭͓̭̜̳̩̱̘̜̣͖̘̰̹̼̜͎̲̹̣̺͕͉͕̺̞̻̟᷂̳̘̱͈̱̜͎̞̟̥͍̦̹̤̙̱̭̬͕̗̯⃧̉͑̓ͮ͗ͭͣ͂̈́͆⃧̋͆͋ͥ̏ͬͩ͋͑ͨ⃧ͩͫ͗͋̅̂̏ͤ͛̾ͧ̇̓̌̅ͭ⃧ͭ̽ͨͧͣͭ̏̔ͦ̀⃧͛ͮͤͦ̐ͣ́̎͗̅͌̿̒́͆ͩ͛̿̏̕͘͜͜͡͡͠ͅͅͅͅ ̊̒̒̌ͩ̅͏̷̷̳͔̻͕͉̖̲̰̙̪̟͚⃧̓̀̌ͫ҉̴̷̵̡̢͓̝̪̣͈̥̲̫̬̺̭͚̝̟̬̻̫͙̹̖͖͕̤͚̱̣̮̞̣̹⃧͒̉ͯ̌͌ͭ̀⃧̐̆͛̆⃧͂ͭͨ̈́ͪ̂̒͛͊̿̊ͭ̌́͜͝͝ͅͅ͏̸͔̳̪̦̰͙̬̣͙̳͉̩̟͔̯̗̗̩̭̯̰͕⃧ͧ̆͌͂ͬͧ̃ͥ̿ͧ̍ͮ͛̊̍͂⃧͑͗̅ͩͮͨ̔̀͐̒̿͒̎̄̊̔̋ͬ͜҉̷̡̢̡͍͔̣̲͉͚̭͙̪̞͇̱͈̹̯̝̭̟̝⃧͒̑ͫ̆̌̾ͣ͂ͮ̏͗̂̊̾̐ͤ͂͠͏̷̡̱̹̙͎̙̞̰̞̲̩̩̭͇̹̖̦̖̪͚͓͔̜̤͖͉͚͕̳̩͇̰⃧͂ͥͧ̋̐b̔̍̄ͮ̿̆͌͒̀ͯ͒͆͋͑̿̊̕͠͞҉͏͇̝̪̼̦̻̜̟̬̼̬͍̥̞̼̮̯⃧ͦͮ̊̒ͮ̿ͭ̃ͮͬ⃧̋͂͗ͫ͐̌̀̐̈́̓̒̍͢ͅ҉̷̵̷̢̨͎͙̟̦͖͚̲̻̲̦̱̜̘͓̫̞̹͙̣̗̖̭̹̫̺̻͎⃧ͨ͊͗̉̑ͫ̅̓ͣ̌ͧ̄̆̎̐̑ͤͣ̀⃧ͪ͑̾̈́⃧ͮ̍̓̏̊̆̀ͯͮ̍̂̆̏̕͜͡͡ͅͅ҉̹̜̱̞͓̤̰̙̮̥͓̺⃧̑̄ͫͭ̑҉̛҉̵̛̗̙̦̰͇̼̭͕̩̥͓̲͕̦̥͍̤̤͔̯̬̮͉͚͖⃧ͩ̅ͧͪ⃧́̏͗̅̏̀́͗ͧͤ̑͘̚͘͝҉͟͏͚͍͈̩̤̼̞̰̰̹̥̟l̏̔̑͆҉̛́͏̷̸̢̨̨̛̛̻͚͕̭̘͚͔̮̼̮̲̳̱̠̪͍̦͕̝̘̗̯̲͕̤̱̗̖̳̖̬̫̦̬̥̦͙̝̰̩̳͚͈̬̞̠̗̪̩̙̼̺͖͚͇͚⃧̅̏͊͆̂̀⃧͌́̇͊̏͑̃ͥ̀⃧̈̈́ͩͦͨ⃧ͦ͆̎ͭͭ̋ͧ́⃧̒ͫ̿̿ͭ̿͂̕͢͜͜͟͠͡ͅͅ҉̸̴̸̧̧̡̞̱̜͇̘͓͖͚̻͈̣̘͉̟̼͉̫̜̫͖̬͓̻͓⃧̎͂ͩ̒ͧ͒̈ͤͬ̔̓̅̀⃧ͩ͆ͤ̈͋̓ͤ̓͂̿ͯͮ͝ͅ҉̧̹͖̮̺̪̹̦̺͈͇̪̹̻͈̲̹͇̮⃧̊͋̈́͗ͦ̓̌̅҉̜͍̳̝̺̖͈͔̘̗̙̻͙̣͔͖̟̕͢o̸̡̡̢̥͓̙̺̘̝̯̜̯͈̥͈̳̗̘͈̘͓͚̱̜͍̣̝̬̺͔̙͙̼̙̤͍͖̞̠̻̝̳̣͓̤͔̣̻̫̯͉̜̻̗̙̤̯̜͚̙͓͉̝̮̗̣̝̫̗̭ͭ̔̋ͤͥ⃧̋ͮͦͮ⃧ͣ̌̉̀͗͆̎̓̈́ͦ͊⃧ͧ͑͂̍ͨ͆ͩ́⃧ͫͮͨͩ̐ͫ͋̂͌̀̀̂̚̕͢͜͢͞͝͠҉̷̶҉̴̶̧̢̙̯̪̙͎͉̬͖̘̺̫⃧ͨ͑̃͐̀́ͩ⃧ͨͩ̈́̈ͤ̉́̏͑̓̍͋͋̈́̑̈́̋͢͟͜͡ͅ͏̵̷̨̡̛̻͍͚̠̳̮̪̭̦̳̭̞̣̤͚̭̮̰̰͉͙̼͙̤͔͍͔̖̩͙̭̺͕͓⃧̈́̃ͧ̾ͬͥ͂̉̉͗̅͐͒⃧̽͌ͭ̀͘͞ͅç̵̞̳̣̟̹̬̣͇̖̘̙̺͎̳̦̥̭̦̟̰͔̲̣͓̙̩̦̤̬̆̊ͭ̌̀⃧ͨ̓̌ͬ̊ͪ̌̀⃧̀ͩ̔̓̿ͨͫ̊̽͡҉̷̛͓͎̭̝̼̜̫̘́⃧̎̆ͮ̓̏̅ͥ̀̄͂̎̏̏⃧̓͆͐ͫ̅̋͑̄̂͊ͩ̈́ͬ̕̕͟ͅ͏҉̶̢͍̣͔̙̼̩̙̫̭̬̥͙̫̱̙̻͉̟̣͕̥̜̯̝͉̙̥͓̻̻͍̳͈̳̦̤̦̤̘͈̖̳̦⃧̏̀͗̈̔ͫ̓̆̿͆̀̽̐̓͊̆⃧ͤ̎̈͑̀̒ͣ̋̉̉̌̃ͨ̃͋ͣ⃧̊̀ͩ̃̐͊̚͘͟͡͡ͅͅ҉̨̦̭̱͎̼͙̜̩̮̤̠͚͓̬̮͖̪⃧ͣ͆̐ͫ̅ͨ͗ͣ̋͏̷̡̺̗̮̥̩͍͈̦̩͖̱͚̺̼̭̗́k̴̷̷̶̵̷̛͖͙̜̞̼͔̘̙͓̙̝̰̳̮͉̲̮̩̬̠̘̟͓̩͇̣̫͇̗̤͇̟̮͖̫̗͓̺̬̱̳͔͔̜̙̙͉̾̽͐̐̐͆̄ͣ̇̋̈́̇ͫ́͗⃧ͥͪͣ͒̾ͦ͂⃧̿̃͐̉͑̓ͭ̽̂ͧ̽̊́᷉͒ͥ͗̈́⃧̽̑̑̒͂̾̌ͪͦ̍́̓̽͛ͯ̓̕̚͟ͅ͏̷͈̰̟̬̙͓͖̳̻̬͖̣͓̹͙̙͚̝̮̱̮̟͉⃧ͪ̑̒̀̀⃧ͣ̿̓̽̚͠ͅ҉̷̶̶̢̡̢̢͙̙̯̱̹̮̪̜̮̰̙͖̩̳͇̬͓͓̣̰̮̙̘̣̪̳̖̱⃧͋̓͗̃̎͊ͨ̊̎̍̓ͩ̀̔͆̓͋͛́⃧́͛͗ͪ͡͠͝ͅͅ҉̙̙̤̻̙̺̬̟̜̪̲͖̩̜̣̯̗̗͍̭̣̮͕̺͉̩̞̼͔̬̦̖̯⃧̿͐̒̀ͨ̇͐ͥ̓ͬ̑̅̃̑͢͢ ̡̡̛̟̝̬͙̩̹̻̟̱̒ͫ͆̽͛ͨ͊͌ͤ̽⃧ͤ̄̉̅ͧ̇͗ͪ͛͑͗̆̂̕͟͞҉̸̵͉̭͓̹̯̮̝͚̙̼̜̘̰̝̖͔̮̝̱͈̭͚͚̠̜̗̱͚̝̣̩͓⃧ͬ̋̊͋̆́ͨͯͫ̐͛⃧ͩ̾ͤ̃̄͂̊̿̐́́⃧ͥͥ̐͋̉̔̾̚̕͜͞͞͡ͅ͏̴̵̵̡̢̨̛̝̜̜͔̘̯͍͔͖̲̻͎̥̺͔͙͍̲̤͓̘̘̱̥̻̳̜͉̣⃧ͯ̅͐͗̊⃧ͧͯ̈⃧̽͌ͦͭ̊̑̈́̿͆ͣ̐ͮͤͧ̆̑̈̾̑̚̕͜͞҉̢̢̢̧̨̳͓̬̮̰̥̱̞̜̻̮̤͕͚̥̼̝̹̫̤̣͍⃧̽̒͐ͯ̍͋͑ͬ̅̈͗̈́̈́͑́̕͠o̶ͦͪͫ̾̆ͬ͋ͭ͏̵̢̟͕̮̣̭̩͉̗͍̠͍̱̠̜̭̝̀⃧ͩͨ̓ͨ͋͌̑͐̎ͨͭͦ͠҉̷̛͈͉̳̦̞̯̟͙̫̥̤̤̬̹̜̦̺̪͔͈̮̳̠̬̥̗⃧ͭ́ͮͮ͂ͦͫ͊ͤ̾̓ͯͧ̒ͩͧ̈̀⃧ͫͪ̏̎̇́̈́̐ͪ̔ͩ̽̿̀⃧̒ͦͥ͋ͮ̿͑̅́̚̕͢͞ͅ҉̷̵̧̨̨̡̢̛͇̰̠̩̯̯͙͈̱̙̜̥̟͚̖̣̘̖̭͍̺̖͚̙̣̠͖͓͖̯̰̰̜̲̫͖̣͖̫̗̩̭̫̪̗̩͇̦̳̼̯̥͓̙̱͈̹̹͍̹̠̗̼̙͉͔̳᷅͐͒̐̎ͥ́͑̏ͭ͋́͂̀⃧ͧ͗̅̌̊͗͌⃧ͧ̓̆̊͆ͧ̎̓⃧͌ͨ̀̅̃̐̆̄̈̎ͫͮ⃧͐̊ͮ͐̄̏ͧ́̕͘̚̚̚͜͝͠͠ͅͅͅf̶̶̵̶͕̤̲̗͙̮͍̣̟̤͍͇͉͖̮̻͕̱̖͉̹͋̋̃̄́͒́⃧ͣ͛ͩ͗ͣ̆ͬ͛͑̋̌ͫ͛́⃧̈̈ͯ̓᷁͊́͋̈͘͟͝ͅ͏̶̴̶̴̴̶̷̴̡̨̢̨̛̛̯̮̝͍̟̭͓̳̥͔͕̝̳̭̬͍̞͔͚̗̥͙̫̭̣̳̱̭͔̠͙̱͎̹̻̮͇͙̗̣̩̙͎͕͚̭̞̝̩̘̩͖̯͖̞̺͙̻̺̻̣͚̯̱̖̠̰̘͎⃧̃̿͊͌ͤ̍͒ͥͫͬ́ͩ̏͋̽̍̂⃧͐̄̾ͬͫͩ̃ͨ̀̽̔̾̂̔ͥ⃧ͬͤ͋͗͑̇̊ͫͥͣ⃧͊̓́͊̉͋̈́ͭͤ͋ͧͮ̈͗̌⃧͒ͤ̽ͩ⃧̊̓ͦͨ́̚̕̚̕͢͢͜͞͡͝͡͠ͅͅͅͅ ̴̢̡̧̧̨̛̳͉̠̹͚̰͙̺̺̠͉̣͓͚̝̺̤͇̼͔̬̮̬̖̬̰͇̬̭̹̩̤͎̗̖̰̟̦͚͖͉̰̘̪̃ͣ̀͋ͩ͛ͨ⃧̓̔͋͂̂ͧ͊͆̅̇̂ͤ͐ͥ̔͑⃧̍̍̄̒ͣ⃧̌̎͆̓͐͐̐̋̉͋̄ͦ̔́⃧ͯ͒̐̒͋͆̑ͧ̿̓͊ͩ̈̀̚̕̚͢͢͞͠ͅ҉̷̵̸̷̨̧̛̛̥͖̳͖̻̬̭̺̘͔͍͎͈͍̬̼̻̹̹̣͇̗͇̭͙̰̪͖̞̤̠̰̟̗͎̝̥̘͉͉̺͓͍̩̱̗̞͓̳̯̺̦⃧͑ͪ̊̽̒͆̌̃́̇ͭ͆͆̋ͩͨ⃧ͪ̉ͮͯ̎͊̅̿̉̿ͬͭ͗̔⃧͋̀͗͒̌ͨ̽̍̉⃧͛̊̊͛͌̇̄͆ͧͩ͜͟͢͟͝͞͠ͅͅͅt̸̵̷̝̼̤̦̼͔̦̙͎͍̜͙͉̰̙ͯͣ͐ͭͣ͒⃧͆̃ͯͩͥ̓̓̈́̕͡ͅ҉̸̹̹̟̫̰̦͔̦̦⃧̄͊̉̅̚͜͝͏̵̬̳͚͈͕͙͚⃧̆̈̌̿̋ͫ̉͂͂̃̓̄̊͡͏̡̡̛̦̠̰̥̳̩̰̤̼̠̞̮̙̮͙̻̳̪͇̣͚͎̺̬̳̬̥̙̙͕͎̦̼̥̫̙͉̟̖̦̱͇͇͕̩͙̜̥̰̻͕̻̀⃧̾ͣ͌́͂̃̽̀ͧ̋͌̓͗ͣ́⃧̏͛̆̒̂⃧̓̽̊͋͐̎̌͗͌̆́ͩ̌ͩ͐̊̆⃧̄ͦ̀̄̓ͪ̑ͪ̈́ͫ̈̕̚̚͜͜͢͠͡҉̸̢̫͇͎͕̠͇̟̥͎̬͈͈̰̮̬͕̱̙̖͖̯̥̼͉͎͓̘⃧ͬͦͯ̾̾̋̎̎̋ͮ͛ͫ͐e̸̷̷̷̶̢̧̧̛͇̩̻͖̖͖̜̟̹̣̥̭̣̖͖̺̮͓͙̹͓̩͇̜̭̼͉̤̙͓̬̻̰̞̩̹̮ͮͫ͊̒ͧ̐̀̉⃧ͣͫ̂͐ͫ̑͊̓̂͊ͭ̂̆̑⃧̿̽ͯ̐ͭ̉̽ͤͩ⃧͗͑̊͊́ͩͭͩ̓̉ͪ͆⃧ͫ͗̇͆ͬͧ̌͗̉ͧ̐̐̚̚̕̕͟͜͝͡ͅͅͅ͏̵̶̷̸̷̵̢̨̢̡͙̺̳̝̖̳̭͍̬̭̪̦̘͎̩̜͎̯̱̱̦̼̩̝̹̼͔̰̬̘̼̝̹̘̻͙̹̣̦̘̬͍͉̣̼̤̬͇͓̱̘̖̘̺̼⃧ͮ͌ͥ̓̉ͩ͆ͫ͛̃̔⃧̿̒ͩͦ́̽᷃̂ͣͭ̈ͥ͌̒͆ͯͦ̏̀̊ͬ̆̿⃧͛̓͐̎͑ͧ̍⃧̒ͩ̍ͩ̊̌̄ͤ̊̀̚͘͟͟͟͡͝͠ͅͅx̵̸̵̢͕̞̤͔̩͈̩̠̜̗̙̭̟̟ͥ̆ͦ̆͐̔͊̃⃧ͦ́̑ͫ͐ͦ̒̾⃧̾̿̽̂ͭ͐͋͗͗͐͛́̐̕͟͠҉̦̣̺̦͙̹̩̣̯̻̙̳͇̹̹͓͔̼̀⃧̇͒̅̉ͪ̀̍̏̈́̀͗ͦͨͥ͆́͢͠҉̸̨̧̢̥̟̺̝̰͎̗̤̝̻̭͓̼͈̬̟̲̼̜̭͉̰̖̹͍̦͚̭͇̪̘͔͇̙͇͔̮͇̥͔͙̤̘͕̘̬̼̥̖̳̯͇̗͉͇̰̜̪̜̻͔̟̭͖͓͇͎̲⃧̊͌̾̋̿̾͐̄̋̊ͥ̿͒̆̍⃧̂̽̃ͦ̓⃧̉̾ͯ͂͑͊⃧̑̓̍ͫ̅ͦ̇̏̑͊̍̈́̃ͩ͑̈́̾̊⃧͋̇̎ͣ͜͟͠͡͡ͅͅͅt̷̵̷̵̘̼̬͔̝̙̰̪͕͚͇̳̳͕̲͖͕ͪͩ̽̽̐͆ͭ̅̍̏ͥ͋͗͂ͬͫ⃧ͦ̅͂̇̾ͣ́̑̿ͪ͆͂ͯ̐̾̂ͧ͋̌⃧͐ͦ͐̓ͤ̏̎̎̒͘̕͢͡ͅ҉̵̴̶̢̡̭̝̫͙̼̬̱̱͈̠͔̹̗͙̞̳̥̫̪̟͉̻̫̩̗̬̼̞̞̫⃧͑̊̔̌ͬ̂̄ͬ̔̂̋̃ͭ́⃧̄̂͋̒͆ͤ͗͑ͩ̅ͩ⃧̾̎̈́̈́̍̆͒̕͟͢͝͏̶̵̴̸̛̛̛̼̫̮̳̟̯͚͉̹͍̝͇̰̳̪̦̮͕̫̜̺͖͇̖̣̣͔̥̹̯̥͇͕͙̞̜͕̦͉̭̹⃧̊̽̽ͣͩ̅͂ͣͭͮ̆͂͊⃧ͮͭ͂̾̎͒̀⃧ͭ̄͆̄͋͌͑̌͆̆͊̀́̚̚̚͢͞ͅ ̷̸̡̧̡̤̦̰͙̫̥̥͈̞͓̠͉͕̩͖̼̺̤̭̖͉̠̥̙͎̪̞̤̣͍̞̱͙͖̪̂ͮ̍̿ͥ̄͒̽͋̈ͫͭ́̅⃧͛̃̎͆̂ͦ̑̓̿̋⃧̐͐ͮ̊́̍ͧͣ⃧͌̐̈́͊̐͟͝͝҉̷̶̡̧̡̢̨̛͕͎̼̺̯̬̬̹̳̯̭̫̘̫̥̳͉̖͉͓̜̝̙̳̗̪̗̞̳̫̘͈̤̱̩̫̖͔̩̻͍͍̲̞̙͖̮͈͇̰̹͍͔̗̣́⃧̑͌̇͌̒͆̿⃧̌͂ͮ͑̋̿̀⃧͌͛ͭ̋ͥ̈͂ͣ̀͗͛⃧̎͑́ͩ͛ͬͯ̅͌ͫ̓͐̒̉⃧ͫͭͦ̈́́̎̀͌ͭ̿̌̄͊̌̂̈̐̽̕͜͠͠ͅ͏̲̬͕̖̙̻͇̺̻̬̙͔̱̭̱̩͡ͅͅţ̸̶̸̸̷̸̨̨̧̧̨̧̧̛̛̦͍͚͚̲̙̞̼̬̦̻̝̳̱͎̯̼͓͓͙͉͉̱̲̠͕̤̘͓͍̼̟̣͓̙̺̙̥̭̜̯̝̱̺̤̪̘͍̲̩̯͖̺̲̻͙̱̬̫̝̺̤̠̲̼̥̜͉̖̥̳̪̙̙̻̣͉̪͔͇͇̰͇̠̯̦̜͈͉̞̼̯͉̺̯̘̰̬̙̰̞̮͖̻̩̳̲͎̱̥̰̞͉̣̪̹̥͙̤̝͉̝̙͔̣͕̝̝̞̦͖̏̓̎ͩ⃧ͥ̉͛ͤͫ̓͐̀̉̔⃧̀̅̍̏̾ͬ̓̎͂͌ͤ̌ͬ̈ͭ᷆̑̃͌͋̉̿̏͐͛̒̀̃̋̍́⃧͌̇̃̈͊̊̅̽̆̒͂⃧ͬ̌̾̂̆̆ͨ͐̑ͬͧ͛̅͗̎̈́͐ͩͨ⃧̈ͣ͆ͪͤ͌̊̓ͭ̏⃧͂͊̋̈́͂̃̿͒ͮ⃧ͭ̿͒ͮ̾̃̓̑ͫ̅͌̈⃧̋́ͧ̊ͧ̑ͩ̀ͬ͒̇̈̈́̾̎̕̕͢͢͢͠͠͡͠͝͠ͅͅͅͅḩ̶̷̸̴̵̵̸̸̗̖͍͖̫̳̤̠̪͎̬̟͍̼͉̪̰̖͍̹̺̠͈̳̳̼̥̼̝͓͓͚̟͉̦͔͕̲͚̯̘̦̥̖̠̞̯͈̪̰͍̙͉͙̗̯͉̝̱̗͖͍͖̫̯͉͖̰̯̣̲̖ͬͩͮ̽ͨ̽̌͛ͥ̔̽̆ͭ̑ͭ⃧́ͥ͋ͥ͊̊⃧̈́̓͂̍̉ͤ́̽̓ͨ⃧͑͆̓͒⃧̾͒ͨͤ͒̽͊̋⃧̎̿ͥͤͪ͌͛ͩ̊ͯ͑͆̑͊⃧ͧͯ̉̎ͨ̇͆ͭͨ̓́̈̅̀⃧̈̋̒̀ͫ̆̉̀͆̊̈̏͒ͦ̋ͭ̈͘̚͟͜͟͜͜͜͢͡͡͡͞͠͝ͅͅ͏̡̛͎̪͉̤̖̜͈̝͇̠̯̲͎̼̻͇̱̬̝͈̗͚͚͈̗͍̺̟̰̣͔̜⃧͂̃̄̄̄͒̀ͬͮ̽̀͛̂̄̉̄̋̂͜͝ȃ̵̶̵̡̛͖̫̪͔̘̹͉̣̻̠̠̪̙̘̥̼̳̣̥͍̝̭͔̟̘̜͉̟̻̬͈̻̞͉̻̒̈ͣ̓̉́͌ͧ̄̀⃧̂̆̈͌̍̀̒̐⃧͗ͨͪͩͮͥ̇͆̆̽̎̉̃̋̉͊̋̂⃧̀̍͋͋̅͑͗ͯ̇̽̏̿̈̾ͣͨ͘̚͞͝҉̸̷̶̸̡̧̧̜̖̼̟̜̞͕̥̖͎̞̯̱̭̝͎̪͚͓̙͈̻̖͕̦̝̹̰̫̹͓͎̹̞̩̥͔̠̲̼̼̟͓̭̳̻̞͎͍̫̪̩̪̭̳̪̯͓̻͎͕͇͔̜̦̘̫̠⃧͑̿̃̾̌͗͂̑ͯ͆̒͊̉̽͛ͬ⃧͂̒̂̏ͭͦ̐ͥ͋͛ͨ͑̈͆ͫ⃧ͪͧ̈͛⃧ͯ͋̃ͬ͒͂͗̒͊̉̅́͌̅͂ͧ͗⃧́͐̊͗͂ͣ̊ͦ̒̀̚͘͜͜͜͜͞͡͠͝ͅͅt̢̃̋̑ͥ̒̌̿̅̓̒̍̏̉ͮ͏̸̸̵̵̵̴̸̧̛̛̟̦̖̥͇̗̦̹̫̱̳̭̰͚̪͈̭̺̙̗͎͔̤͙͉̠͙̱͖̥̜̜͔̟̰͉̟͔̣̠̖̺̥̥̠̙̞̯̯͖͉͇̻̲̫̥͔͇̻͈͙͈̟̬͖͔̞̗̫̱̟̪̜̳͕͍̻̤͉͔̫̰͓͈̱̳̬̰̘͔̭̝͕͙̙̣̖͚̖̺͇̯̬̤̜̟̻̘͍̮̞̠͔⃧̑̅̀ͥ̓͋ͧͨͥ͐⃧̐̄͐̑̋̓͑̋̅ͥ̃ͭ̐̈́̃ͮ⃧́͗̇̒̓̔ͪ̈́͌͊⃧̋ͥ̒̈́ͫͮ̔ͨ͐⃧͂̏̒̈̈́⃧̈́̉ͭͣ̅̉̒̄͐͂̿́⃧͂̆̏ͧ̔̏̌⃧̔ͫ̎͗́̕͘̚͘̕͢͟͟͟͟͝͞͠͝͝͠ͅͅͅͅ ̛̥̮̩̖̗̭̞̰̰̩̗ͪ̆ͤͨ̈́ͥͧ̀ͧ͊͒ͤ͂ͧ̉ͫ⃧̇̏̉͋̾̑́̀̓͒ͯ̾ͣ̀ͨͨ̏͟͠͏͏̵̵̨̨̨̺͚̣̯̜̦̠͓̲̫̰̹̮͚̹̫͙͇̜̟͈̘͈̹͉̰̭͇⃧̔͂̍̐̈ͣ̍ͪ͋̑̒́̓̂⃧̆͒ͬ̐̊̐̅ͦ̿͆́⃧̓͑̇ͨͭ̚͏̭͕͔̜̯̖̮͖̣̞̰⃧̇ͭͪ̉̌̓̊҉̶̸̯͓͈͕̬̠̯͓͖̱͚͉͈̹̳͍̻͍̘͕̻᷊⃧̉ͭͨͨ̌̏̅̊̎͋̏͛͆̿̅ͮ͂͟͝͏̵҉̷̷̧̪̬̖̫͔̼̲̫̗͓̫̫̙̦̞̞̬̼͖⃧͐ͩ̐͑̎̀ͧ̍͂͏̴̢͉̬̰͙̭͖̙̖̰͈̱͈͉͓̠͍̗̟̲͓̜̝̰̜̥⃧͌͊ͮ̀ͬ̽́̓ͬ̀ͮ̈̎̐͛̏͌́̚͝ͅc̷̵̶̵̴̸̷̴̡̢̨̡̛̛̹͙̤̠̦͍͍̥͍̫͕̘̠̹͍̭͉̖̘͖̪̺̻͉̬̪̙̰̞̖͇̖̮̠̣̼̣̭̭͉̩̜̖̫͙̳̱͈̗̯̖̼̤͔̭͚̣̱̝͓̲͔̳̝̬̜͙̗͙̬̻̱̥̻͉̻̼̝̲͍̞͙̲̱̭̤͚̝̜̙̝̫͎͖̯̩̬̟͇̳̖̲̝͇̟͇̠̼̥͖̰̞̞͇̹͙͈ͮͨͦ̏ͥ́ͨ̑͌̆̽͂̓̋̒⃧ͯ͂͆ͧ̃̒ͩ̃⃧ͬͫ̒̓̿̐̇ͥ⃧̿͛́͆ͪͨ͊̋̐͋̃̊ͥͧͦ̌͂̍́⃧ͦ̒ͮ̅ͨ⃧͋͗̋⃧͊͂̏̍̀⃧̀̿̓̑̓ͮ̎̓ͥ̉̎̏̊ͣͥ̀⃧ͧ͑̿̏ͬ͌͌̓̈́͐͒͑̚̕̚̚͢͢͜͟͜͢͢͟͠͠͠͞ͅͅͅͅͅa̶͌̉ͨͬͫͪ͗̏̿͐̀̈̌̊͏̶̡̨̧̛̗̰̬̠̦̣̬͙̳̙͇̘̤͙̝̪̠̹̮̹̜͓͉̭͇̜̳̱͍̭̮̤̪̜̻͍̣̺̘͔̟͉̜̞͈̝̭̩͉̪⃧̋̌̄͗ͧͩ̀̉̽́͗ͫ̇ͮͫ̃̄̋⃧̊̍ͮ͋́ͮ̃ͯͮ̐⃧̍̈̊̇͑̀̒͊̎ͩ͂̑͑͋⃧͆́ͥ̋͛̏ͥ̅̏̓́̕̚͟͢͜͝ͅͅ͏̵̷̷̧̢̧̛͚͓͔̣̺̰͉̙͉̖̠̳͕̙͕̻͎̝͔̖̳̝͉̟͎͍͉̖͈̙͈̱̹̹̮̣̫̰̜̫̮̳̘̼͍̗̀⃧͐̈̓ͬ̃̏͛ͭ̑ͪ̔ͭ̓͑͊̃͑͌̑̀⃧̐ͨͩ̈⃧̓̌ͯ̀͛̾̌̃̒ͪ͂ͤ͋́⃧ͦͩ̊͊ͧ́́̕͘͜͜͜͝͞͠ͅn̢̔̒̓̇ͮ́̈͗̚͝͞҉̸̷̬̲̩̝̤̥̞͙͙̜⃧̾ͣ̅ͣ̈́͌͂͐ͨ̆̓̿͑ͨ̅̚҉̶̷̨̢͈̤͓͇͕̫̘̠̩͈̘̻̺̫̥͍̹̹̰̼͉̤̣̰̥̗̮̮̼̥͔̣̤̝⃧͊̉ͥͭ⃧̂ͨͣ̊⃧̽̂ͨ͂̔̂͆̚͞͠͞ͅ҉̸̢̛̛͎͉̖̫͔̞̰͖̙̣͚̗̟̫̠̤͍̬͚̱̱͍̟⃧ͦ̉ͦ͂̀̿͂̒̒͆̀́⃧͑ͫ̍̈ͪͪ̔ͦ͂ͥ⃧̅̏͒ͮ́̉̉̾̌́ͭ̆̈̀ͪ͗̚̕͜͠͝͏̨͎̪̲⃧̆̒ͣͤ͋͏̩̲̥͉̠̳̫̠͕̯̦͈͔̫̳̖͇͈ ̴̡̨̡̡̹̻̼̼͖̫̦̩͔̫̪̳̙̰͎͙͈̣̹̦͓͙̖̥̻̙̞̻̝̟̝̯̩͔͚̞̬̩̤̮͖͇̙̩͍ͦ́̎̍͗ͨ͋ͧͨ͗ͫ͌⃧̑̃ͧ͂ͭ̽͂̇͑̇̽̃̒̈̋⃧̂̑ͨ͗͗͋̋̿͒͗ͩ͌̇⃧̾͆ͩ̔ͦ̚̕͟͟͜͜͠͡͏̖̞̦̫͎͇͙͚͉̫̯̼͙͙̯̙̭̀̀⃧̎̌̐͒̇͟͞͞ͅ҉̵̡̡̝̭̘̖̠̟̗̹͎̜̟͉̱̘᷾ͫͭ̔̾̆ͨ͊ͯͫ̈́̑̕̚͘ͅ͏̶̵͇͉̩͍̜͍̝̦̼̞̙͎͔̙̠̳̗͕̥̗͇̠̖͇͖᷂⃧ͦ̓ͨ̈́̅⃧͂̊ͣͥͨ̅ͯͥ̎ͭͧͨ̑̓ͮͣ̒͑ͮͩͣ͊́͢͞͡͡ͅͅͅ҉̨̡̛̞͖̜̼͙̖̳̞̮͚̟̝̹͉̹̟̠̻̦̘̻̼͖͎̭͍̤̣̮͖̬̫̪̺̟̭̯̹͎̮̥̠͍͍̱̲̖⃧̐ͬͨ͌̆ͥ͒͌̈́͂̾⃧̽̍̄̍̅̒̅̈́ͮͯͧ̀̅̓͒ͯ͘̕̕͟͟͞͞
trythil
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Joined: 23 Jul 2002
Location: N͋̀͒̆ͣ͋ͤ̍ͮ͌ͭ̔̊͒ͧ̿
Status: ౚైౖైẻై̃ైʩై᷀ైᐠైͪైᙸై͐ైᦄై͊ైᘝై̠ైrཹ̸ཹ᷿ཹ᷆ཹ̭ཹ̖ཹ᷿ཹ̍ཹeཹ̄ཹ᷿ཹ

Postby yuppa » Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:13 pm

I just thought fo a solution!! get a server that is not in the united states. Move them to canada where its legal. then say screw em. simple eh? Anime jedi would prolly take care of it if Phade set that up with him. Or someone else could do it.
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Once king of noobs...now king nothing!!
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yuppa
 
Joined: 02 May 2003
Location: behind MY own AT field
Status: Single again

Postby Nestor » Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:25 pm

yuppa wrote:ok^^ i think you guys should know.. That MEGATOKYO is talking about this. and are basically saying stuff that the companies are right. I dont agree with it personally. its just basically "fan made" tributes to th esongs and the anime they love. Ah well.. phade ya could just change the name of the site, everytime a sumons comes up so its wrong every time. eventually changing its name will wear on their nerves and say screw it.

Oh heres the link of the topic here....

http://forums.megatokyo.com/index.php?s ... try4015579


You're right. We're talking about it. And you know what? The company IS right to excersize that choice. regardless of the circumstances, it IS distribution of their music without profit. Is it so hard to believe that they have a right to say 'no' when their music is expressed in a way they're not comfortable with? :roll:

Or is this another angsty bleeding heart 'anti-big business' (OMFGLMAO TEH RIAA AND MPAA ARE TEH SUXXORZ) hate parade? :roll:

Face the music. Phade did what was right and he did it appropriately. I for one applaud his descisiveness, tact, and ability to adroitly address the situation. he has, by all rights and accounts, handled it maturely. Read the first post he made in the previous thread.

Phade wrote:t has been an exceptionally stressful 24 hours to say the least. Please read this entire message slowly and carefully, pausing for stress breaks if needed. As a much needed spoiler: You are OK and the Org is mostly OK.


Everything is just fine. God's in his heaven and all's well with the world.

Will this snowball into an escalated issue? Likely not. Even if it DID, you could always turn to unliscensed musicians. Not that hard to do. There are websites out there dedicated to distribution of unliscensed and unrecognized artists and their music. Simply because it comes from a pre-approved record label does not mean that it has to be used. seriously. Get a grip on yourselves.

Or, as a fellow Megatokyo compadre would say, "LOL INTERNET".
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Postby Otohiko » Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:32 pm

Nestor wrote:Or is this another angsty bleeding heart 'anti-big business' (OMFGLMAO TEH RIAA AND MPAA ARE TEH SUXXORZ) hate parade? :roll:


Yes. Minus the angst, plus stop-stealing-my- :roll:

***

But of course you're right. There's no other way this would or should work at this stage in the society that we live in.

...that calls for a good chuckle of LOL CAPITALISM from me :roll:
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Joined: 05 May 2003

Postby Vlad G Pohnert » Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:38 pm

rubyeye wrote:
Vlad G Pohnert wrote:
2- The con is not distributing the music to the public at large... But acting more like a radio station... This is why pretty much all cons will not give out the AMVs played at the contest, nor make a distro disc...



Oh oh, this is what I was worried about. Because this is exactly what Chris (Akon Video Event head coordinator) has planned and even outlined on the Contest Distribution section of the site. Do you think it would be wise for me to contact him and discuss these plans in light of all this sudden "legality"?


Might be a good idea.... The chances of getting anythign are very small, but it only takes one person to complain...

ALSO, it should be noted that even if the it is the case the that all major bands have to go, it would only effect the LINKS and not kill the entire site.. The Catalog would still be here, as the forums and other stuff just like they were here before the Golden Doughnut... The point is we don't just vanish....

Vlad

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Last edited by Vlad G Pohnert on Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

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