Some Videos No Longer Available [Follow-up]

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Postby jethropr » Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:37 am

JaddziaDax wrote:due to the "you must download the local video inorder to leave an opinion rule"


you sure?

Last time I checked, ops could be given to any video, but only star ratings and quick comments could be given to local downloads.
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Postby TaranT » Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:54 am

Vlad G Pohnert wrote:Lets not let this incident consume us all and take away our already limited time. I think our best weapon is in the strength of our community and passions for our collective hobby… if we let that go, then we’ve already lost everything….

It now almost December, so it's time to get to creative juices flowing once again so more new and awesome videos for next year...

Good points all. I need just two more weeks of sleep........

******************

Here is an article that has been passed around the Web for years as a must-read:10 Big Myths About Copyright Explained (Has anyone posted this yet?)

I also came across this article about a different lock on the use of cartoon characters. Copyright cops crack down on cooks over cakes (06/16/2005) Especially note the response at the bottom of the page by EFF attorney, Jason Schultz.
Yet kids love culture, as we all do. And their love of copyrighted and trademarked characters helps make those characters valuable, just as the creators' inspiration and skill have. Consider if no child loved Dora the Explorer; how valuable would the copyrights and trademarks in the character actually be? Not very. Yet the love and obsession of fans do not garner any "property rights" in the character or any rights at all, according the (copyright) maximalists.
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Postby Qyot27 » Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:27 am

Scintilla wrote:
TehShere wrote:As a side note, I wonder if any of those bands took the time to watch any of the videos here.

Amy Lee of Evanescence has seen and enjoyed at least one of the videos to her band's music here (I believe it was at A-Kon 2002 or 2003 before the band got big; check the video info).

This was the video, I believe:
http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... id_id=2580

(not to be confused with the Shamanic Princess video done to the version of Imaginary from Fallen which was shown at at least MegaCon '04, wheras that one used the version from Origin, I believe)

Of particular interest is one of the comments rubyeye made in one of the two opinions that were made public. It definitely validates the age.




All in all, though, I agree with Vlad, in that this shouldn't be a big deal, just let it go and move on. Worrying and getting worked up over this won't solve anything but ruin one's resolve to do anything AMV-related, which would be a real shame, considering I'd like to think most of the editors here do this because they personally enjoy it, not because having it for public download is a big ego-boost if it's popular (or because one just wants to point and squeal to their friends about being 'somebody' on the Internet :roll: ). Sure, this may take a chunk out of enthusiasm for a little while, but like I mention in the next paragraph, other means will always be available providing the right circumstances are met.

The Org was around for nearly 3 years (right? I can't remember if the date was in late 2000 or late 1999) before the Carrot or the Donut even went online, and in addition to that, it's not like the Org was the staging ground of the creation of the AMV - there have been, and will always be convention contests and expos as long as the organizers pay the various types of licensing fees they do, since that was the issue it came down to ultimately.

My only concern is that any further action against the Org by the record industry at large will not just be simple C&D orders, but attacks of greater damage, whether against Phade and the rest of the site administration, or against individual editors. If all it comes down to are simple C&D orders, it just means that eventually, the only videos with available links will be non-RIAA and other labels that decide to jump on this, and then it would default to the same system that has been used up to now - if the artist doesn't want you using their music, it gets removed. Hopefully in these cases, the artist would directly contact the editor, as I doubt that after taking the RIAA and bandwagon labels away, that the music being used would be similar enough that it would need a blanket ban; it would be practical to contact individual editors and request that it be taken down. This has happened before, to greenjinjo.

Like everyone else, though, my thanks do go out to Phade in defusing this situation in the best way available, and diverting more extreme action being taken.
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Postby Ileia » Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:34 am

jethropr wrote:
JaddziaDax wrote:due to the "you must download the local video inorder to leave an opinion rule"


you sure?

Last time I checked, ops could be given to any video, but only star ratings and quick comments could be given to local downloads.


http://www.animemusicvideos.org/phpBB/v ... hp?t=58238
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Postby [Mike of the Desert] » Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:24 am

Vlad G Pohnert wrote:
Lets not let this incident consume us all and take away our already limited time. I think our best weapon is in the strength of our community and passions for our collective hobby… if we let that go, then we’ve already lost everything….

It now almost December, so it's time to get to creative juices flowing once again so more new and awesome videos for next year...


Really true. =) Even if someone (like me) is working on a project featuring this group, we're been really lucky and this don't mean we don't have to continue our work. =)

Is not the end of the community, we can only hope that this is a single case and that will not happen again with anyone else. Let's put ourself in this passion, creating. :)
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Postby x_rex30 » Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:36 am

I didn't read anywhere about this, but can you still play the videos at cons?
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Postby Coderjoe » Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:30 am

Kalium wrote:Thing is, copyrights are not trademarks. Copyrights can be selectivley enforced without risk of losing them, unlike trademarks. "Maintaining the enforceability" just means not accidentally putting the material into the public domain by making it an exhibit in a court case or something.

More likely it's corporate policy to go after anything brought to their attention.


Kal, do you have any idea how tired I am of having to bring this point up over and over again in this discussion? :x
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Postby JaddziaDax » Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:48 am

aielI_Ileia wrote:
jethropr wrote:
JaddziaDax wrote:due to the "you must download the local video inorder to leave an opinion rule"


you sure?

Last time I checked, ops could be given to any video, but only star ratings and quick comments could be given to local downloads.


http://www.animemusicvideos.org/phpBB/v ... hp?t=58238


Thanks :)

I wasnt quite awake last night... (long stressful off topic day) but I checked again, and it seems to be fixed now... o.0 atleast for my friend's videos..

THANKS :D!!!
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Postby madmallard » Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:30 pm

i wonder if any of the other -tape traders- that may be around still are getting a kick out of this? :roll:
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Postby rubyeye » Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:54 pm

rubyeye wrote:
x_rex30 wrote:
rubyeye wrote:Phade,

I really appreciate all that you do and put up with when things like this come up. However, I would like to suggest that when big issues like this creep up and affects all of us (that is the AMV community), it would be wise to post the news of this material on the main page of the site.


I don't think that is a wise idea at all.. well if you give the whole story at the main page of the site.. some asshole visiting the site could easily run into that and think it would be funny trying to contact the bands for the same reason.. I know plenty of people who would do that just to piss people off. I just personally don't think it's a good idea..


Sounds reasonable .... anyway, just a passing thought . :roll:


I take back what I said...looks like ANN just posted the whole news on their website. So much for that.
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Postby x_rex30 » Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:59 pm

rubyeye wrote:
rubyeye wrote:
x_rex30 wrote:
rubyeye wrote:Phade,

I really appreciate all that you do and put up with when things like this come up. However, I would like to suggest that when big issues like this creep up and affects all of us (that is the AMV community), it would be wise to post the news of this material on the main page of the site.


I don't think that is a wise idea at all.. well if you give the whole story at the main page of the site.. some asshole visiting the site could easily run into that and think it would be funny trying to contact the bands for the same reason.. I know plenty of people who would do that just to piss people off. I just personally don't think it's a good idea..


Sounds reasonable .... anyway, just a passing thought . :roll:


I take back what I said...looks like ANN just posted the whole news on their website. So much for that.
better them than us. -_- Meh I don't know.. I just know some jack asses who have f'ed up sites before.. that's all... :oops:
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Postby DriftRoot » Fri Nov 18, 2005 2:13 pm

I wonder if the record label/lawyer is going to take their cease and desist request any further than a-m-v.org. Whether they do is going to give us a real clear picture not only of their understanding of the AMV community, but how far they're going to go to protect their copyrights. Are they going to launch an independent investigation into AMVs, or sit back and be happy that they've stopped a large, well-known site from distributing protected music?

Something to think about: Will convention organizers (once they hear about this cease and desist order) allow music banned from here to be used in their AMV competitions, or otherwise played at conventions? I wonder if they'd risk being ceased and desisted (or worse) . . . somehow I doubt it. You've got a crowd of thousands paying to get into an event where this music is being used as entertainment. Ouch.
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Postby Kalium » Fri Nov 18, 2005 2:37 pm

DriftRoot wrote:Something to think about: Will convention organizers (once they hear about this cease and desist order) allow music banned from here to be used in their AMV competitions, or otherwise played at conventions? I wonder if they'd risk being ceased and desisted (or worse) . . . somehow I doubt it. You've got a crowd of thousands paying to get into an event where this music is being used as entertainment. Ouch.

I just went over this with you on ANN. Conventions usually pay for a performance license, so they are in the clear.
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Postby TehShere » Fri Nov 18, 2005 2:37 pm

DriftRoot wrote:Something to think about: Will convention organizers (once they hear about this cease and desist order) allow music banned from here to be used in their AMV competitions, or otherwise played at conventions? I wonder if they'd risk being ceased and desisted (or worse) . . . somehow I doubt it. You've got a crowd of thousands paying to get into an event where this music is being used as entertainment. Ouch.


Conventions usually handle the licensing, and are thus in the legal clear.

Anyway, the sooner we all forget this happened the better, it's no real loss. And besides, there's tons of other music to work with. Just move on folks.
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Postby Vlad G Pohnert » Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:09 pm

As a AMV Contest Coordinator and as The Director Of Programming for Animethon and thus the poor sap who whas to handle this issue, there are two factors that make playing videos at cons different then having them on the org:

1- Paying the licence fee for the music gives the event premission to play the music.

2- The con is not distributing the music to the public at large... But acting more like a radio station... This is why pretty much all cons will not give out the AMVs played at the contest, nor make a distro disc...

so, as long as the anime companies are fine with us using thier footage, the music part will be fine so AMV contests for now are just fine (unless you break the two above, in which a contest could be shut down, but this would only effect that particular con

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