Some Videos No Longer Available [Follow-up]

[Kalium]

Or hell, I'll go to Tower Records and steal a CD. Then I go out and play it outside on my portable stereo. I'm "Promoting the CD" and helping Tower Records sell more by showing people on the street that good music is sold there. Then I get arrested and ask why. Hmmmmmmmm.

Are you actually foolish enough to think that piracy somehome equates to physical theft? That your analogy isn't fundamentally flawed? If so, then you have larger issues to work out.

[Moonlessnight]

[quote="BasharOfTheAges"]Phade, i'm glad you made the "it's the lawyer's job to do this" clear. A lot of people don't realize this. What i've been saying is that likewise, when this is dropped on the desks of any other band's lawyers, (s)he must do the same thing (at the very least). Then I pose the (rhetorical?) question; "Is it not within proper business procedures for any group such as wind-up records to inform their associates of current legal matters that they have undertaken that they found to be important enough to warrent a Cease and Desist order?" Nobody has answered this yet...

I'm glad that you handeled this so well. As a donator who has supported this site, i know that i can possibly face charges as a contributor to an illegal organization (or i at least suspect this to be true) so I feel indebted to you, as we all should...[/quote]

Yep. That would be my sentiment exactly. Thanks SO much for watching our backs.

[x_rex30]

I think it's good at promoting anime. I don't think it promotes stealing of music.. if you come here to steal music your an idiot or just suck at the internet. I could get about any song I want from google, and I could use limewire and get songs in seconds. If you come here to steal music your just plain stupid. Nuff said.

[[Mike of the Desert]]

I think it's good at promoting anime. I don't think it promotes stealing of music.. if you come here to steal music your an idiot or just suck at the internet. I could get about any song I want from google, and I could use limewire and get songs in seconds. If you come here to steal music your just plain stupid. Nuff said.

x2

I think the same, fansubs in the end only publicize an anime until it is showed in the country, generally thanks to them we can have a "rent" to see if actually the anime it's worth it. I bought a lot of soundtracks and dvds thanks to this.

[James Sharp]

I have a quick question about all this. although it may seem stupid to many i still have to ask.. at the begining and end of "most" music videos there are things called "bumpers".. these bumpers describe the song used and the band and anime.. when somone does a report on somthing.. if they use someone elses writings. then they give them credit on a page at the end.. im to uneducated to know what that page is called... but here is my question....
these students that do reports give credit to source creators.. on there colaboration on information.. are amv makers not doing the same??? we give credit on all if not most accounts.... we do not claim that the source information is our creation..but the colaboration and proper placment of these things is... does anyone see what im getting at??

[aoi_neko]

IANAL, but it's not a dumb question at all, James. In fact, that's really a central legal argument. What you're describing is called "fair use with proper atttribution." For example, if I were to take 10 lines of Creed lyrics and put them in a scholarly report, and attribute them in a bilbliography, there's really not much that Creed or their label could do about it.

However, the problem is that "fair use" isn't defined all that well in the laws themselves, but rather more by custom and legal precedent. No one can *absolutely* say that using the music and video in an AMV is or isn't fair use until it's tested in a court, and that hasn't been done yet. (This smal degre of uncertainty, coupled with a lack of "criminal intent" would make it hard to prosecute either Phade or an editor for CRIMINAL copyright infringement.)

BUT, the odds are overwhelming that because so MUCH of the song is used in the average AMV, that either one could be successfully sued for CIVIL copyright infringement. i.e. it doesn't look likely, legally, that you could get sent to jail. But it does look REAL likely that that you could get successfully sued for a great big pile of money. That pile could be millions. (Why it's that high is another topic).

That's because "fair use" isn't a real strong right. Courts don't go out of their way to give people the benefit of the doubt on it; and the legal precendents that ARE out there make it look unlikely that the average AMV can squeeze in under that umbrella. Faced with a VERY slim chance of winning, a record label with huge amounts to spend on lawyers and potentially millions of dollars in damges if you lose, most everybody does exactly what Phade did.

[scottyhotty]

Or hell, I'll go to Tower Records and steal a CD. Then I go out and play it outside on my portable stereo. I'm "Promoting the CD" and helping Tower Records sell more by showing people on the street that good music is sold there. Then I get arrested and ask why. Hmmmmmmmm.

Are you actually foolish enough to think that piracy somehome equates to physical theft? That your analogy isn't fundamentally flawed? If so, then you have larger issues to work out.

I was just trying to make a point. Piracy is theft. Stealing a CD is theft. Get the picture?

While giving credit where credit is due is one thing, you are still using someone else's copyrighted property in full. You still need permission to do that. Maybe I can try to use another example. I'm gonna make a movie. It's not for my profit, but I use, say 60 minutes of Star Wars Eps. 3 film in it. Then I share it publicly. I'm sure George Lucas would have a fit if someone took his media property and used it without permission in a public fashion. The legal grounds on this are not something I'm aware of, but I'm sure as hell I would get in trouble.

Oh, one more thing, sure you can go to Limewire to D/L. Who doesn't? But if you can't find a good song there, you have other options. But from what I heard from that was you are trying to defend illegal activity with the stated fact that I'm stupid (ps - it's spelled YOU'RE, not YOUR... but don't worry, I make stoopid mistakes two) and can't use the internet efficiently? I am sorry if I made it sound like I was an internet Noob and couldn't steal copyrighted materials more efficiently like you x_rex30. FYI - Before Limewire and even Napster, there was a little something called MIRC.

I was trying to help everyone understand the other side of the fence. The point of view from the people who own the songs. There are so many people out there trying to defend piracy. And I use the term piracy VERY loose. We aren't trading music files here, but it's still unauthorized reproduction of copyrighted materials that's made available free of charge.

Like I said... other companies might follow Wind Up Records and ask that their music is pulled as well. We can only hope that doesn't happen.

[V37]

Although I'm not a big fan of those bands, I see this as a first strike against this community, which I don't like at all. Phade did everything he could, sure. But then again, you are not offering those songs as a direct download, you are offering them with a video. Which means, that this is fanmade, and thus a creation of your own.

I live in Germany, and law here says, that IF you change anything from the original, like we do (basically we change the song by just putting credit music to it....and by making an AMV), then you automatically can't be sued for publishing it anymore. Of course lawyers are good at what they do, and well....I think there are backdoors to anything.

My point is different nature though. Phade, for the sake of this site AND your heart - go see a lawyer. Ask what possibilities we have, ask him/her what kind of actions could be taken. I mean, what happens next? Imagine Linkin Park (which I'm not a fan of either.....) would have called you. That would have been how many videos?

We can't just wait and hope that nobody else makes a comment about this site, it's way too huge for that. So please, find out what we can do to prevent videos to get shut down.

It would be a pity to get a-m-v.org shut down now wouldn't it? This is epic, don't let it die over some copyright problems. Try to secure yourself and this site..... or we'll have to kill every lawyer on this world!! lol


V37

[valeyard]

I just thought fo a solution!! get a server that is not in the united states. Move them to canada where its legal. then say screw em. simple eh? Anime jedi would prolly take care of it if Phade set that up with him. Or someone else could do it.

Um, sorry but you are living in a fantasy world. First of all, Clinton signed the North American Free Trade Agreement. That means moving to Canada would NOT get you out of obeying American Copyright laws. Just as say using Rush in your video would not get you out of having to remove the video if Rush (a Canadian band) objected.

Further, people as far away as Chechezlovakia (or as it is now known the Chech Republic) have been prosecuted for violating copyright laws.

Sorry, its a small world after all, and they CAN get you.

[tyromaniac]

hehe......just imagine if Linkin Park got in on this.....
there would be a lot of bad AMVs gone, as well as some good, but mostly bad. Let's hope that doesn't happen........except for the bad ones where people make them just so they can feel special and have no point.