More Bandwidth and Revenue Needed

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Postby Phade » Sat Sep 10, 2005 9:54 pm

Hey All,

As a result of this thread, there has been a nice spike in the number of donations. This is very good (thank you to all who recently and generously donated!), but we also need something that will be there every month (7, 8, 9 months from now).

I am happy that all of you have come up with many suggestions. After looking through them all and contemplating what could be the best solution, I came up with this idea.

The one thing that costs the site the most by far is local downloads. The download system currently works slightly differently for donators and non-donators. Whenever a donator goes to download a local video, the download start immediately for them from the local video download page. Whenever a non-donator goes to download a local video, they must sit at the local video download page for 10 seconds looking at a message saying, “Your download will start in 10 seconds...” before the download actually starts. This was originally meant to be something that would encourage non-donators to donate.

What I have come up with is a slight tweak to just that one single local download page. For donators, the page will look and act exactly as it does now. However for non-donators, the new setup will have them looking at paid ads along with the “your download will start...” message. This would passively generate some revenue from non-donators without them having to do a single thing in order to help pay for bandwidth. If the page can generate a mere $15 of additional revenue per day on top of regular donations, it would easily cover the cost of the additional bandwidth. Anyone who donates would not see the ads.

I’m not a big fan of useless ads. The ads here would be targeted from companies who provide anime, music, and video related items, which are hopefully things that interest members of this site. The page will not have ads for pr0n, bootlegs, booze, popups, trackers, or any other kinda crap ads things. I want to have nice, pleasant, useful, targeted ads that will hopefully be useful to some people. There would be no paid ads on any other page of the site, just the local download page for non-donators. The current banner ad contest will continue exactly as it is now.

Of all the suggestions given, this seems to be the most likely to continuously generate revenue, have the least amount of impact on the server and members, and is easiest to implement.

So the question comes to this: Would paid ads on just the local video download page for non-donators be a good idea in order to get revenue from members who are just leeching bandwidth and not giving anything back?

Remember, this is just a proposal. Constructive feedback is encouraged.

Phade.
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Postby Pwolf » Sat Sep 10, 2005 10:13 pm

i think thats a decent idea.


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Postby Orwell » Sat Sep 10, 2005 10:54 pm

Out of the many idea's suggested, I think this one sounds like the best. Would increasing the wait time for non-donator's help at all with the bandwidth, like 20 seconds instead of 10? Before I donated, 10 never bothered me, since I'd probably be doing something else, but with a slightly longer wait it might encourage people to donate more, or at least let the ad display longer.
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Postby derobert » Sat Sep 10, 2005 10:58 pm

Corran wrote:
c97 at php.net wrote:Simple script to limit browser download speed using fread function.
Nope, our downloads don't go through PHP. Plus, if we did it, it really should be a priority thing...
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Postby derobert » Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:14 pm

Phade wrote:However for non-donators, the new setup will have them looking at paid ads along with the “your download will start...” message.
As I've said before, I just worry this will make it look like we are out to profit off of copyrighted material (in particular, I worry about the music). Trying to say:
yeah, every time someone goes to download this quite-possibly-illegally distributed copyrighted work, we make X cents, but, no, really, we're not profiting off your work! We're just a fully non-commercial fan site! Really!
is not an argument I'd like to have to make.
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Postby Flint the Dwarf » Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:17 pm

I'd say that's a great idea. I'm almost always against advertisements, but this is only for one part of the site and for less than thirty seconds. If it gives you the extra revenue without any real cost to the site's members, great. I think all of us non-donaters can put up with a few advertisements.
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Postby kagome5646 » Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:07 am

:twisted: That's pretty a good idea.. having the non- donators to wait and look at ads for a while before their download starts .. but will it work .. i mean I don't think 20 sec is long enough i mean hell they'll probably wait 2min before they can download a vid :o .. Who knows .. Maybe it would work ..only one way to find out.. oh to those people who r uncomfortable useing paypal or bipay etc.. just mail it.. if u don't have a checking acount send a M.O. (money order)..
PHADE I have a question.. ok so in a nutshell :the non-donators when they download a vid.. they have to sit through ads.. for at least 20 sec ?
and then it would ask them to donate before the vid starts or during.. u mighthave something there.. but i think the wait time should be longer like .. 2min.. now that might wrk..just a suggestion..
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Postby anneke » Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:24 am

I think that's a great solution. Then for those of us who don't download, we won't get bugged by having ads popping up. As for the length of the ads...just find out what the minimum is at other sites. What companys generally require for their ads.

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Postby godix » Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:25 am

kagome5646 wrote::twisted: That's pretty a good idea.. having the non- donators to wait and look at ads for a while before their download starts .. but will it work .. i mean I don't think 20 sec is long enough i mean hell they'll probably wait 2min before they can download a vid

A person might sit in the same window for 10 seconds till the video starts downloading. Set it higher and you can almost guarentee the secnod they get to the waiting page they're off in another window doing something besides looking at the ads. So in a way increasing the waiting time would actually probably decrease the time anyone actually sees and gets interested in the ads.
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Postby pen-pen2002 » Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:45 am

Bandwith caps: +
Forum Titles: +
BBcode in more places: ++
Non-regressing donator status but regressing privilages: ++
Ads: I object on princible more than any real reason.
Upload size cap: +++
OT forum: +
Bittorrent supplement for extremly popular videos: +

A lot of thease reward suggestions are great, although a lot of people just download lots of vids and never really use the forums. I assume you don't want to restrict the dateabase, so you will have to do something to the hosting to affect these people.

Though to be honest I'm supprised more of the forum regulars havn't donated. Perhaps people think there is plenty of money and their donation is not needed?

This should not be a hard problem to crack. People care pretty deeply about AMV's, make donating easier and more rewarding andit will quickly become the norm instead of the exeption.

Paying to upload: - some people can't pay, would be detrimental to the site.
paying for banners: -
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Postby kitsunebeolnet » Sun Sep 11, 2005 6:50 am

Heh Heh...

I'll buy an ad, put my studio logo in it with a link back to my videos...that ought to send then screaming to donate. :twisted:

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Postby SQ » Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:52 am

Phade:

Out of curiousity, what would happen if nobody donated? Would you let the whole site go down, or would you pull the whole donut? Restrict uploads? What would you do?

Pen-pen: I think a lot of forum regs just don't support the donut. Frankly, I want the donut gone. But I donate anyway just because I like Phade and he's a cool guy. If Phade takes donation at AWA this year again, I'll have some cash lined up for him.

Phade, again:

Good luck finding an advertising service. That's going to be the hardest thing to do for your idea. A lot of companies don't really allow you to pick and choose ads like that, and I don't really think any companies really revolve around anime/music/digital media.
It would really suck if you had to pull up agreements for each individual company and randomize them all yourself. XP
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Postby SpringBoy » Sun Sep 11, 2005 10:28 am

I like the advertising idea. It's fairly simple and should be effective whilst not affecting donators.

I think there should be Google ads at the bottom of all pages as well though. I, for one, have no problems regularly clicking on these to help out a site.

Not to sound like a "Google AdSense whore" but there's a few other benefits. It's quick and painless to set up and doesn't require anyone wasting time trying to solicite ads from companies. They're unobtrusive so people won't mind them, especially at the bottom of a page. They're not just "pat per click" - there's also payment based on viewings.

You'd have to check the legals though. https://www.google.com/adsense/policies I think there's a few things that a-m-v.org would fall outside of.

PS. I'll be donating when I get home in a few days and get my hands on my parents' credit card: I'm owed a birthday present. :)
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Postby BasharOfTheAges » Sun Sep 11, 2005 11:31 am

There are a few things about google ads that might cause problems if they are used on the site. For example:

On the wait page:
Google wrote: Clicks on Google ads must not result in a new browser window being launched.

That would redirect the page and abort the download, right?

On any main site page:
Google wrote:In order to avoid associations with copyright claims, website publishers may not display Google ads on web pages with MP3, Video, News Groups, and Image Results.

The legal arena question as already been discussed, so i'm not getting into anything here, but we might fit under "video."

A general point of interest:
Google wrote:Web pages may not include incentives of any kind for users to click on ads. This includes encouraging users to click on the ads or to visit the advertisers' sites as well as drawing any undue attention to the ads. This activity is strictly prohibited in order to avoid potential inflation of advertiser costs. For example, your site cannot contain phrases such as "click here," "support us," "visit these links," or other similar language that could apply to any ad, regardless of content. In addition, publishers may not bring unnatural attention to sites displaying ads through unsolicited mass emails or unwanted advertisements on third-party websites. These activities are strictly prohibited in order to avoid potential inflation of advertiser costs.


One could read this as, "you can't have pledge info on the same page as google ads." because any such termanology as "suport us" could be misinterperted as "click on the link!"

And based on the small scope of our discussion topics, advertising with other companies other than google results in this problem:
Google wrote:We do not permit Google ads or search boxes accessing Google search services to be published on web pages that also contain what could be considered competing ads or services. If you have elected to receive contextually-targeted Google ads, this would include all other contextually-targeted ads or links on the same page as Google ads. This would also include ads throughout the site that mimic Google ads or otherwise appear to be associated with Google on your site. Although you may sell ads directly on your site, it is your responsibility to ensure these ads do not mimic Google ads. If you have elected to receive Google search services, this would include other search services on the same site and non-Google query-targeted ads. We do allow affiliate or limited-text links.


Just throwing this out there as realistic imput for once.
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Postby Zarxrax » Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:10 pm

derobert wrote:
Phade wrote:However for non-donators, the new setup will have them looking at paid ads along with the “your download will start...” message.
As I've said before, I just worry this will make it look like we are out to profit off of copyrighted material (in particular, I worry about the music). Trying to say:
yeah, every time someone goes to download this quite-possibly-illegally distributed copyrighted work, we make X cents, but, no, really, we're not profiting off your work! We're just a fully non-commercial fan site! Really!
is not an argument I'd like to have to make.


Dero, I think the difference here would be that Kazaa was set up as a commercial company with a profit motive. The org is structured as a non-profit organization, which would go a long ways towards making that a non-problem. As long as Phade keeps good records of where the money goes, I don't see there being a problem.
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