More Bandwidth and Revenue Needed

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Postby SQ » Fri Oct 07, 2005 7:43 pm

Well Phade, maybe if I had some advertising space for my contest, I'd be more inclined to donate a prize for your's. ;P

[that would be me amending the user ad idea with donations]
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Postby CrazedMoogle » Sat Oct 08, 2005 7:22 pm

hmmm... as long as i can tell, the main issue here is raising funds without making a paysite out of this place... ideally, the things to get paid would be little, useful services that make downloads easier and give more accessibility, and generally make things more pleasant for donors.
problem is, what's listed in pledge pages (aside from being redundant and overly insistent) isn't enough, i'm always like "wait, that's it? i can get all i want without limits and get by without paying a dime!". see a loophole here? people must be led to think they can't get everything without paying. only they wouldn't pay the videos, they would have to pay for the sugar coating. here are a few ideas.

bug non-benefactors a little with small limitations and nags, which wouldn't affect the retrieval of the movies but would make it easier to download them after donating. ideas range: for example search limitations, or the inability to post comments for videos. "leeching mofos" don't really care about dropping two lines anyway.

implement methods similar to certain sites that force a timeout before getting new content and won't let people download more than a certain number of files at a time. for example: no new downloads until 5 minutes have passed and no more than a download at a time. donors might still be limited a bit, since bandwidth ain't free, but they'd only be minor things... maybe removable with an extra buck :)

place links to videos that other people downloaded/rated the most on the video download page, it would have to be simple statistical comparison, only most popular entries would have to be filtered for obvious cluttering reasons. recommendation systems are great marketing tools, and they make people at least want to browse them; the gain from that would cover the actual cost of people getting more than they wanted to. also, this link box would have to be accessible from a place that won't affect regular downloading activities, probably on the "download starting page".

also, if you guys wanna sell all of these godsend goodies, you'll have to make them look like the first thing non-donors need, advertise them more and talk less about money. when i look at the pledge stats page i'm always like, "these guys have gotten much more than they needed to get to cover costs, my support won't make a difference"; money talk and stats tend to make people cling to their purses, it's a matter of fact. so just keep the balance secret, we only need to know you're in need of money. it will start rolling in more than when stated, because people won't know *when* the alert is over; they'll think you always could use an extra buck.

there's still the option of reopening the online shop, only it would need something interesting to attract customers: sell mainstream commodities, like anime dvd's, manga and such, or anime-related merchandise, like action figures and stuff like that. maybe even host little auctions or bargain sales on stuff that users have and want to sell, and get a little commission out of the auction price to cover that little extra cost. of course there's the problem of releasing something on here which infringes the rights of the same stuff you would sell, but that could be fixed by registering the online shop under a different name and by making the money transfers to amv figure like bandwidth expenses, since the new site would have to rely on the same server.

honestly tho', i think the best way to keep the boat floating would be an adoption of most of the methods listed in this thread... you know, pitching in every penny you could use. limiting especially seems like a great idea, although i would probably be the first to get throttled :? well, that's it... i apologize in case i sounded greedy or if i seemed like another leecher, for i actually am. i'm currently "recharging my batteries" and i get by with part-time jobs, so my income is not exactly comparable to that of a white shirt :D sorry 'bout that.
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Postby Kuromiko_Aya » Sun Oct 09, 2005 1:02 am

I personally like the Idea of setting up a booth at conventions.
I mean... even if it's just a couple of random admin members I think it might work out. I don't know about other peoples reasons for donating/not donating but I know that if I had a way to send money I'd love to. I don't know any address I can send a check to and, honestly, I have no idea how to pay for things online. So if you could just setup an actual place to donate to it may be a lot easier.
besides... randomly showing up at ANY big event and begging will usually get at least SOMETHING... it always works for me anyways...XD
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Postby Garylisk » Sun Oct 09, 2005 1:16 am

People on the net leech things. It's a fact.

Most people who know about this site and download AMVs probably also download fansubs.

And probably most people who download those fansubs also download licensed anime.

"If it's available for free, why pay for it?"

That's a big thing on the net these days.

In closing, ideas here that I think are good:
1. OT forum for donators
2. BitTorrent the most popular videos. Coderjoe has been spamming the IRC channel for a while now about how certain videos are draining a lot of bandwidth. This would be easy to implement, and you rea;;y don't need to be paranoid about it, Phade. BT is fast becoming a standard on the internet for file transfers. Big sites and big companies are more and more starting to use BitTorrent for file distribution. For example, Blizzard Entertainment's World of Warcraft updater program is a BitTorrent client that is specialized for just WoW updates. BT may be Peer to Peer, but it's controlled peer to peer. People can't just jump up and share anything they want on your BT tracker. You make the call on what is allowed and what is not.
3. Forums titles for donators. This is an awesome idea, and I think it'd be easy to do. If you can make someone's forum avatar says "Donated" underneath it, would it be so hard to also turn on the already existing phpbb feature of titles?
4. (Not sure if this was mentioned or not) Let forum donators have 100x100 avatars. This is the usual on most sites I've been to. This site has a limit of 80x80, which is just stupidly small if you ask me. An extra 20x20 won't hurt anything, and will be, again, a pro for donation.
5. Cap bandwidth for non donators. Someone mentioned that this wouldn't affect dialup users. Are the dialup users really taking that much bandwidth? Sure, I suppose if you have 4k/sec or so and multiply it by a thousand, it's 4000k/sec... but still, that's a thousand users only using 4000k/sec, where as a thousand broadband users, which there are more and more of every day, would use way more. I generally get about 150k/sec-200k/sec on my dl's from this site. Sometimes I'll get up to 300k/sec. multiply that by a thousand, it's big time bandwidth use. Cap them to 30k/sec, and you've just cut the usage by a ton.
6. OK, I've always been a big supporter of this one... Only let donators upload local - This will decrease the number of local videos available, and thus decrease the number of local videos that get downloaded. This, of course, has the con of making videos that donators might want unavailable to them so easily, since non-donators DO make good videos that people will want to download... but if you make use of the server space for storage of your video a donator benefit, it would behoove the editors to donate so they can get their work hosted.
7. I dunno if I am serious on this one or not... Limit the formats that are uploadable - Don't allow people to upload videos that are in WMV format, etc. Only allow avi, mkv, etc... any of the preferred direct show non-proprietary video formats. Maybe this owuld cut down on the number of spammy videos that get uploaded. I know I groan every time I see a WMV format video, and think to myself "What a waste of bandwidth..." - Of coruse, this is also making a broad generalization that people who encode in WMV format generally aren't donators as well. So who knows.


I dunno, I am tired, otherwise I might think of more stuff...
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Postby SQ » Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:27 pm

Garylisk: Limits formats = bad idea.
I donate and I make WMV videos. I'd be seriously pissed if they didn't allow wmv videos.
There's already a big hupla about WMV = bad, and I know that. So if I want to encode WMV videos, I'll deal with the karma that comes with it. Making a broad generalization is just like saying DivX = Pirated footage. Not everything that's DivX is pirated, not everything that's wmv is bad.

If Phade allows flash files to be uploaded, than WMV should have no problems, as well. If people want to deal with the kharma of "WMV = Bad video" then let them deal with it, and let people avoid their videos.

Now, limiting non-video files, like whatever WMM's project files are- since those get uploaded a ton- that would be a good idea. But wmv is a perfectly viable video format and if Phade stooped as low as to completely abolish it alltogether, I'd think even less of the local idea than I do now(which is pretty bad).

On another note, the ad thing was kind of a joke, Phade. What kind of prizes are you looking for for your contest? Brand new? Like new? Used?
Brand new I've got the new ONe Piece PS2 game playable Demo Disc(although that game's already so it's probably not a great idea to give), the Dragon Quest 7 PS2 Playable Demo Disc (not opened and not out, yet, yey).

As for opened/like-new, I've got a ton of supposedly rare Yu-Gi-Oh! cards and a 15GB internal Harddrive, Ceres: The Celestial Legend DVDs #1 -3 Region 1(the US version, not bootlegs, I swear) and the Yu-Gi-Oh! Movie Region 1 DVD (shudder).
If you want any of them drop me a line and I'll see about sending them to you ASAP.
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Postby tribblewing » Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:47 am

CrazedMoogle wrote:there's still the option of reopening the online shop, only it would need something interesting to attract customers: sell mainstream commodities, like anime dvd's, manga and such, or anime-related merchandise, like action figures and stuff like that.

I've ctrl+f like a third of the pages in this thread for anything involving the online store/shop and I've a couple of questions:

* What was being sold at the store?
* And how long ago was it that this store was around?
* What's involved in getting the store back up?

As for CrazedMoogle's suggestions on what to sell... why make it that complicated?

It occurred to me at one point that I've never burned so many CD-Rs in my life 'til I joined a-m-v.org, since the truly awesome AMVs are more rare and valuable to me than any anime or mp3s collection. I try to make copies of everything I like.

What I would really love being sold here are CD cases or holders... preferably a translucent, pliable plastic one that has "AMV" or some cool-looking logo on its cover... with a single snap-on button clasp... and have it come in different colors. I would totally donate for/buy something like that... cause it'd be *USEFUL*.

I think I'd pay $10 for a CD case holding thing like that. I dunno what you actually *call* these things, cause like I said, I've never bothered with burning CDs before.

I wouldn't want any t-shirts or toys or trinkets. There's enough of those out in animanga shops.
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Postby SQ » Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:09 pm

The store had been around since I joined, until last year I believe. It sold shirts, mousepads, and coffee mugs with logos on them. the first AMV logo(the eye on the music note), and none of the other logos(as far as I can remember, anyway). Some "big-name" AMV studios hopped on the bandwagon and had their own logos, such as "My AMVs suck" and I think Random Variable Productions had their own shop, too(before the merge into Random Destination).

The only problem with the shop that I could see was that there wasn't any advertising there. The toolbar on the left in the members main page is devised in such a way that you have no idea what is there unless you are looking for it. So I had no idea a shop existed until -Gasp- I couldn't find a link to something else, so I sat there for five minutes, reading all the little toolbars.

I also didn't like the first logo. I liked the logo with "AMV" on the grey movie film thing, which I think is the logo before this one.
ANYWAY, I think the number one problem witht he online shop was nobody knew it was there.

Now if we actually had it in a visible area, or had an ad pop up for it every once in a while, that would help.

And the CD holder case thing- that's an awesome idea. I'd get one of those. XD

Also, with what was said before about the graph and stats scaring people away- this is true.

Get rid of the graphs and stats, or make them available only if you're specifically looking for them. All the users need to know is that you need money.

.. Although the graph depicting how many videos a day were uploaded on the main member page was kind of cool. I looked at that all the time. XP
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Postby vanhelsing3150 » Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:56 pm

i like the idea of an online store, i had no idea there was a store for this site at one point, i would hav gotten so much stuff (especially stuff with logos to advertise the site), i would donate but i have no job and cant afford to donate
*feels like bum*. As for ideas, i think the site should offer advertiseing space
(i know its been suggested, but its a good idea), i dont like the idea of bandwidth caps, that punishes those unable to donate *like me*. bit torrent isnt a good idea (its so slow) but back to the store thing, if the store was more advertised it might hav preduced more revenue(i never knew about it),
as for those out of the country making donations, if you wantto keep the site goin the extra fee's associated i think are worth it, i myself plan on donating a large sum of money in the near future (possibly in the hundreds, and dont criticize me sayin this), well thats all i got to say
*live long AMV!!*
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Postby vanhelsing3150 » Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:10 pm

Garylisk say" 7. I dunno if I am serious on this one or not... Limit the formats that are uploadable - Don't allow people to upload videos that are in WMV format, etc. Only allow avi, mkv, etc... any of the preferred direct show non-proprietary video formats. Maybe this owuld cut down on the number of spammy videos that get uploaded. I know I groan every time I see a WMV format video, and think to myself "What a waste of bandwidth..." - Of coruse, this is also making a broad generalization that people who encode in WMV format generally aren't donators as well. So who knows. "



I no like this idea cause i can only format my vids into WMV, thats all i got and dat wouldnt be fair to others wit da same problem
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Postby SQ » Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:12 pm

So wait... You don't have enough money to donate anything...

But you're willing to buy stuff with this money you don't have?

Surprisingly, I think most people think this way, so I suppose brining back the storew ould yield better results if, in fact, people did know it existed and it sold useful things, Like the CD holder case thing. Yeah, I know what you're talking about but I have no idea what it's called, either. X|
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Postby Scintilla » Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:52 pm

vanhelsing3150 wrote:I no like this idea cause i can only format my vids into WMV, thats all i got and dat wouldnt be fair to others wit da same problem

http://www.animemusicvideos.org/guides/ ... xport.html

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Postby vanhelsing3150 » Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:01 pm

i would hav requested the store items as gifts for holidays such as christmas, or my birthday (grrrrrrrrrrr, critics)
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Postby Garylisk » Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:18 am

vanhelsing3150 wrote:
Garylisk wrote:7. I dunno if I am serious on this one or not... Limit the formats that are uploadable - Don't allow people to upload videos that are in WMV format, etc. Only allow avi, mkv, etc... any of the preferred direct show non-proprietary video formats. Maybe this owuld cut down on the number of spammy videos that get uploaded. I know I groan every time I see a WMV format video, and think to myself "What a waste of bandwidth..." - Of coruse, this is also making a broad generalization that people who encode in WMV format generally aren't donators as well. So who knows. "




I no like this idea cause i can only format my vids into WMV, thats all i got and dat wouldnt be fair to others wit da same problem


Donators could upload WMVs.

Yes, I realize it's a bad idea. I was half joking. :P
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Postby bum » Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:41 am

I think we should all hold out breath and wait for the stats from the google ads to come in. Phade, how long till the first wad of cash gets to you? Hopefully its succesfull enough and we'l all be able to sit comfourtably till the RIAA comes knocking.

vanhelsing3150 wrote:i would donate but i have no job and cant afford to donate *feels like bum*.


:cry:
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Re: More Bandwidth and Revenue Needed

Postby ssj4lonewolf » Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:05 pm

Phade wrote:Hey,

Roccket wrote:Things would be much more easier for international users if the org had his own credit card payment system.

We have actually been working on that for a long time. We have the account, but no online method to process them yet. Since Derobert always complains about my broken code, I asked him to write up the CC processor. Normally I would write something up that works most of the time. But when it comes to CCs, Derobert's method of coding is much better.

Phade.


Get this and i will donate with the quickness. I for one just hate going threw the process of mailing and such, because it kinda takes some of my time after i get off of work in the morning(feeling like a zombie).

SQ wrote:And the CD holder case thing- that's an awesome idea. I'd get one of those. XD

*nods*

If your going to make t-shirts, i think some of our local org artists would be happy to give you some designs for the shirts. Booth idea at major cons would be a great idea as well, because most of us have cash while we're at a con. So I like that too. It woulda been nice if it was at anime expo, and phade if u would of came there, you proly would of been a guest of honor or somthin.[/quote]
Oh god, that black dude with the afro is always making those damn trash ass music hip hop amvs...he needs to do something with techno or rock....
.......as if I would do something like that.
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