More Bandwidth and Revenue Needed

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Postby SuperFusion » Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:26 pm

It's messed up how everyone is up for punishing, but not for rewarding. lol


If anything, something that may make people donate is limiting them to one upload per month or something.
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Postby paizuri » Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:27 pm

x_rex30 wrote:This is a reason a lot of people are not donating that already want to. It's there not educated on how easy it is and/or they don't trust using the internet to transfer money. I've told some people about some good deals for DVDs, etc online and I sometimes get responses like, "I don't have a credit card", or "I don't trust making purchases over the internet". Try to make it seem like it's simple to donate, and you'll trick all kinds of people into donating, IMO.

Uh, I don't really think we want to trick anyone. Maybe it's just your wording, but ideally we want people to fully understand what it means to donate.

I think the reason most people don't donate can be summed up quite clearly with this attitude.
SuperFusion wrote:That would be your problem, not mine. :|

People in general are a selfish bunch. If they donate, they want to see what personal benefits they can accrue rather than the general benefits that apply to everyone.

However, I think we're starting to veer a little off-topic. What this post initially said is that at the rate we appear to be growing, we will need to find/improve ways to support our expected growth (bandwidth/storage/etc.). It would be *nice* if we could continue with the way we have been (via donations and annoying pledge pages) but on a larger scale to fit increased demand. But I think it seems pretty clear that we cannot.

Rather than quibble over how/why people donate or do not donate to the site, I think the main two issues this thread should address are: a) do we really need to make these improvements (and the administration is leaning towards a resounding "yes") and b) what do we need to do to make these improvements.
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Postby anneke » Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:44 pm

I PMed phade my reasons. I do not wish them posted here because my reasons are very specialized and don't really apply to the majority of non-donators out there. (In other words I have very odd/unique reasons for doing so that don't apply to most people, don't ask how that is so, it just is.)

It's not that people in general don't care it's more the standard of the Internet that if you can get it for free, why pay for it?

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Postby Arigatomina » Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:52 pm

Another vote to limit the bandwidth per user, or more accurately, the mbs downloaded per user per day/week. This would encourage people to be selective about the videos they get, and it would encourage editors to at least try to be reasonable about compressing their vids. Any idea to limit the download speed should be applied to those who download a *lot* of videos in a short time period - namely leeches on high speed connections. Anything above 56kbps won't affect me, so I'm all for it.

Bittorrents are nice for dial-up users. Surprised? If the file is popular enough (like very popular videos here - think top 5%), the download speed can be more than I get on a local video file. You can resume, too - without using Opera/Firefox/etc. The resume ability alone makes it nice to have. You don't need to remove the local versions, just offer bittorrents as an option with the mention that resume is automatic and speed can be better than local.

Don't count the members who join, get one or two videos, and then never return. They aren't real members, and aren't anything like the leeches who stay around downloading like crazy. That may knock down the difference between donators and non-donators quite a bit.

Sell advertising in the banners - you're not paying to have your fanart up, you're paying for the *link* to your profile. Make it possible for people to have their banners linked to their personal websites (after checking to be sure they abide by site rules). I bet more people would pay for that sort of advertising, and you wouldn't need to get flashy 'outside' advertisements.

To encourage donations:

Make the donation total accumumlative - entirely accumulative. Those fancy titles for donators mean nothing if the donation is cleared after a year, leaving the donator to start from zero again. You can still take away privileges from those who don't donate every year, but if they *do* donate again, add that onto the existing donation amount. What's the point of working for those top titles if you have to start over every year? People like to brag here. Give donators something to brag about, give them a reason to donate again once they lose thier title - so they get the title back and then some.

Add some perks to the video description page for donators - like a picture (that conforms to the same rules as the ones uploaded on the member profile page). People have asked for this. I'm sure some people still want it, and some would pay for it if they think it will attract more attention to their videos.

Add picture options to the journals (just the same code we have in posts) - lots of people are big on journals and like to get hits and attention. It would be monitored the same way the profile pictures are - word of mouth reporting of rule breaking.

Make a public list of the highest donators. Again, people like to brag. Just look at real-world donators who get parks named after themselves. I thought we should have had the opinionators lists in a more public place to encourage opinions. But we need donations more, so make those public (with the option to 'opt' out for those who are modest).

Get fanmanagement online - even if it's just a "email me when this creator adds a new video" option, or a "show me who put my vid on their favorites list" option. I'd pay good money for that. I'm sure others would, too.

The search options are nice. I like all of the 'donator-only' options we've been given. But I would have donated without them just to avoid the pledge page.

I liked the old carrot donation - pay $50 to start uploading immediately or wait a month or two. I know space isn't the issue here, bandwidth is, but again, money is money. I'd bet the people hosting their vids are more likely to donate than the ones downloading - because they're likely to be more impatient to get the vid out there and get feedback. Downloaders can go somewhere else if it's too much of a hassel to download here. You can always make it $5 or $10 with a shorter waiting period (a fraction proportionate to the time saved by the $50 donation).

If you want donations from even those people who download a few vids and then never come back, make a download limit for the first two weeks (month) of membership. Something like 5 vids - if they want more, they can donate a set amount or wait a little bit. The set amount can be as low as $1 - you might get more default pledges, but you're more likely to get your 'every member donating at least a dollar' minimum that way.

/end brainstorm
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Postby Flint the Dwarf » Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:12 pm

The way I think of it is that the Org is more like that musician playing on the street. If you like what he plays, throw in a buck. If you don't like it, keep walking and don't bother him. Don't give him a buck ONLY IF HE PLAYS AT YOUR WEDDING.
Kusoyaro: We don't need a leader. We need to SHUT UP. Make what you want to make, don't make you what you don't want to make. If neither of those applies to you, then you need to SHUT UP MORE.
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Postby Arigatomina » Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:20 pm

Yes, we should all donate out of gratitude and caring for our beloved community. We don't need special perks. Remove the perks - make them for everyone. Make the pledge pages and minute wait before downloading a problem for everyone, donator or not. Then we can complain and lecture the members for wanting to get extra for giving extra.

Just to repost this:

Phade wrote:Do you have any actual reward suggestions? Ones that do not violate site policies?


I thought Phade was asking for suggestions, or I wouldn't have posted. But honestly, if you think anyone besides a few philanthropists here will donate for what everyone else is already getting for free, you have an overly optimistic view of the world, and the org.
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Postby Flint the Dwarf » Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:26 pm

...look, I was just saying that the Org is already offering something. Yeah, it's free. Fine. But it's silly to complain about not getting enough from something that should just be courtesy for service.
Kusoyaro: We don't need a leader. We need to SHUT UP. Make what you want to make, don't make you what you don't want to make. If neither of those applies to you, then you need to SHUT UP MORE.
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Postby NJWright » Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:44 pm

I hate to say it, and i know that the point of the site is that its free, but if you made the memberships cost 1$ a year, thats a lot of dollars, and I wouldn't complain. if they don't wanna pay a dollar for 1000's of local videos, thats too bad! let them download the 1000's of inderect vids.
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only 1 % donate

Postby kagome5646 » Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:47 pm

I'm not that shocked:shock: that so little people donate.. I mean I don't donate 100$ or anything .. but i give a little something to this community here each year.. I just think that people who don't donate at least 1$ or 2$ should be limited to a certain amount they can download.. Like when that screen pops up when u download a video.. asking u to pledge or proceed.. U know THE ONE i'm talking about.. you've all seen it.. well at least 99% of us do.. lol.. Just don't give a choice it's either pledge or not.. that way they won't have a choice but to pledge..no pledge no download.. :twisted:
Know I'm not saying that I agree W/ the comment that people who r in high school or not in the US don't donate I'm talking about people who don't donate at all .I dont care if ur blue/purple and have an extra arm coming out of your *ss . If u can't donate at least a 1$ ..NO DONATE NO DOWNLOAD. NO COOKIE FOR U.. :twisted:
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Postby Devolution » Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:48 pm

NJWright wrote:I hate to say it, and i know that the point of the site is that its free, but if you made the memberships cost 1$ a year, thats a lot of dollars, and I wouldn't complain. if they don't wanna pay a dollar for 1000's of local videos, thats too bad! let them download the 1000's of inderect vids.


that'd fall under "paying for AMVs" i think. hell i'm sure it falls under that :\
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Postby SQ » Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:54 pm

[OT Comment removed]

Phade:
I agree witht he bandwidth cap. I don't agree with the queue. Queues are HORRIBLE. They not only make me not want to donate, but they make me want to leave the site and never come back again. If you make it a high download cap (like 80kbps or something), then it wouldn't be so bad to complain about, since your rates are already so high(I get up to 2mb per second, sometimes).

And just to emphasize others' ideas, custom titles for donators = GOLD.
I'd pay a lot more than I usually do for a custom title. I honestly don't know why random people got custom titles in the first place(I know it stemmed from the OT junkie thing, but I must've missed the dedicated thread. :cry:)

Pictures in vid info/journals: Somehow allow all HTML and/or BBCode in journals and video info. I'd pay a buttload to get that. You don't even have to host the pictures people are uploading: tell them to direct link to something like imageshack.us or photobucket.

Personal banners and paying for them: No go. Just. Ew. No.

OT Forum for donators: GOD YES. I miss the OT forums SO BADLY. I'd seriously pay $50 to get that back.

My own idea:
Faster regression donation priveledges. The only reason I've donated in the past was to help out the site (I didn't care about the donate ads or anything). But after my priveledges started to wane away, I've wanted to donate again. Before, you said that the priveledges would never go away, so I figured I'd never donate or again unless I had some insane surplus of money.

But I think I lost all my priveledges aside from the search now, after two years. And it's getting to me. So I think if you made everything go away after one year, people would donate more. Perhaps an auto-email/pm warning people their status will go down once the year is in December or something would be a good idea, also.

On a sidenote, Phade, Personally, I think you should've never done the local video thing. Most of the older, nicer regs here knew this insane leeching would happen, and I really do think we're better off without a local system alltogether.

SuperFusion: Currently, it is impossible to code donators being allowed to edit their posts anywhere. That doesn't really work with phpbb, and if it does, I really doubt Derobert/Kalium can handle modding and upkeeping it in such a way.

[MOD22: I've split OT comments from this thread. Please keep it to the topic.]
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Postby Devolution » Fri Sep 09, 2005 6:01 pm

SQ wrote:If you make it a high download cap (like 80kbps or something), then it wouldn't be so bad to complain about, since your rates are already so high(I get up to 2mb per second, sometimes).


i thought of that too, only at a about half that speed(a 50meg video would take around 20mins at 40kb/s). my justification was going to be that people on highspeed would find it a hassle to wait 40mins for a 50meg video to download at 20kb/s. then i stopped before i posted and remembered that it's SUPPOSED to be a hassle, and that would be what inspired them to donate.

either that or they would just not bother downloading at all, which would also solve the problem, since fewer people would be downloading from local. (not an actual suggestion, i just realized that would probably be a side effect of bandwidth caps)
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Postby Ainaelle » Fri Sep 09, 2005 6:05 pm

Phade wrote:We need to find out why non-donators are not donating. We can only guess so much. Trying different methods to read peoples minds is just more guesswork and can backfire if done wrong.


Well, my two cents then:

- the most logical choice for me would be IPMO, but sadly, I can't send IPMO to US from where I live;
- the second best choice would be sending cash by mail, but a) I have bad experiences with sending cash by mail (even as registered letters), and b) given the amount I could afford donating, the cost of sending cash by mail as an insuranced letter would be proportionally unjustified;
- I don't trust PayPal a single bit (and it would be too much of a hassle to sign up just for that).
- I only have a Visa Electron card, so no other form of on-line transfer is possible, afaik (even if the site accepted other forms than paypal).
- the charges for international bank checks are even more crazy than for international insuranced letters.

These are the main reasons why I haven't donated yet. Another would be that I'm constantly broke (though not to the point of not being able to shell out 12 bucks a year), but others might be in better financial situation than me (keep in mind the disproportion between the average income here and there, however). And while this might seem like giving excuses for myself (and to some point it is), I think it's fairly representative for people from outside the US of A with limited abilities of transferring money.

Make of it what you want. And, uh, hope this helps. ;-)

Regards,
Ain.

PS. Oh yeah, and welcome forum. Don't hold it against me if I won't write anymore (at least in this thread), I'm really bad at keeping the conversations up.
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Postby Zero » Fri Sep 09, 2005 6:13 pm

Zarxrax wrote:I think i got the killer feature right here!

An off-topic forum just for donators!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


Actualy, I like this idea!

But lemmie see if I can pull up that old thread...

*Scrambles on HypeOdermic Studios to find it*

Me on HypeOdermic Studios Forums wrote:Maybe hosting for videos should be changed. For example:

If you don't donate, you're allowed 50Mbs per video and up to ten videos.

If you donate at least $50/year, you get 100Mbs per video and up to, say, 50 videos.

If you donate at least $100/year, you get Unlimited Mbs per video and unlimited videos.

While this idea may never fly, I'm just throwing it out there for disscussion.


There was alot of disscussion and stuff on that forum based on my ideas and the like. What are your ideas?

-Zero
Phade wrote:(I've actually promised to spend some time with my wife now. It's "happy Friday time".)
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Postby SQ » Fri Sep 09, 2005 6:16 pm

x_rex: All the mods are doing is trying to stop the flame war. Be understanding. X|

Phade: Being able to delete local videos. I did some thinking about it. And it basically came to this.
If you can't delete your video information page, then technically the video is still in the catalog. If you are not uploading to the org, you can delete your video. If this is somehow defiling your catalog, then why do you even allow indirect/direct links?

So I think if you had a higher donation rate to have the ability to delete local videos (say, 10 USD or so), then that would be great, and more plausible, I think, than all the other ideas I and others have suggested (other than the bandwidth cap).


Also, you could appeal to those who hate reviewing videos. Donate 1 USD or more, get rid of that "pesky" give a star rating for every 10 local downloads.
Or even better, force a new rule on non-donators. Every 10 local videos you must star rate, every 20 or so, you must opinionate. Sure, this might result in some spammy opinions, but we get so many when it isn't forced, so I don't really see how it would make a difference(if anything, the breakdown in numbers might be better than one number overall, since it forces a certain standard other than "I liked it so it gets a five").

If that was enforced, you could cater to those tastes as well. Donate, and you won't have to opinionate any more.

Or you could completely switch it around. Donate, and you are able to have star ratings for your indirect/direct download.
This provides incentives for two things: One, stop uploading so much crap to local.
Two, donate to the org.

If this sounded chastising, I'm sorry.. I didn't mean it that way. I'm simply trying to toss ideas around.
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