Looking for server

This forum is for site announcements. Please go here to read the SITE & FORUM RULES.

Looking for server

Postby Phade » Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:04 pm

Hey All,

The site is looking to purchase the full Donut storage server. We're looking for the best bang-for-buck configuration on a budget. Here's what the server should be like:

* 2U Dual processor
* 1G RAM
* 3Ware 7500-8 controller
* 8 WD2000JB Drives
* Hot-swap drive bays

You can help by looking around for a good price for this machine. If you know people or know people who know people about putting together a dependable server for a good price, please let me know. I'll be looking as well, but the more eyes are looking, the better the deal we can finally end up with.

Thanks again and good luck!! ^_^

Phade.
Last edited by Phade on Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Phade
Site Admin
 
Joined: 20 Oct 2000
Location: Little cabin in the woods...

Postby Farlo » Mon Apr 21, 2003 1:06 pm

what kind of server.......unix or other?
User avatar
Farlo
 
Joined: 02 Apr 2002
Location: Fort Smith, Arkansas
Status: old timer amver

Postby Phade » Mon Apr 21, 2003 5:31 pm

Hey,

Debian. As long as the machine doesn't come with an OS, it will be fine. :-)

Phade.
User avatar
Phade
Site Admin
 
Joined: 20 Oct 2000
Location: Little cabin in the woods...

Postby Pie Row Maniac » Tue Apr 22, 2003 6:03 pm

Phade wrote:As long as the machine doesn't come with an OS, it will be

If it came with Windows ME, you'd have a leigon of editors at your doorstep with pitchforks and torches.

The scary part is that it's true. :P
Have a beta? Want some positive criticism? Message me!
User avatar
Pie Row Maniac
 
Joined: 04 Jan 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Status: is not Quo!

Passing the Buck

Postby CrazyCelt » Fri Apr 25, 2003 7:21 am

Personally, I know very little about servers, but I have a brother that is in the business of running and maintaining these things. So, I dropped him a note and we can hope he replies. :?
User avatar
CrazyCelt
 
Joined: 16 Aug 2001
Location: Yes

Postby eitje » Fri Apr 25, 2003 8:23 pm

well, first i'd recommend taking a look @ this site:
http://www.tech-report.com/etc/2003q1/w ... dex.x?pg=1

TR is (in my opinion) a very valuable source for tech-related information, and when they wrote up an article on how they built their new web server, i found it was very similar to the way we build our in-house servers @ my job. so i'll forgo my input on WHAT you should put into your server. :)

secondly, in case you weren't aware, standard IDE drives (such as those supported by the 3Ware 7500-8) don't support hot-swapping. if you want hotswappable drives, you'll either have to use SCSI or Serial ATA drives (the 3Ware 8500-8 supports SATA drives).

finally, i recommend building your own system, purchasing parts from www.newegg.com (for the components), www.rackmountpro.com (for the caswe & RAID card), and www.pcprogress.com (for anything that you can't find @ either of the other locations). we've always received speedy delivery when ordering from those locations, and the RMA policies of those locations are pretty good.
eitje
 
Joined: 24 May 2002

Postby Phade » Fri Apr 25, 2003 9:09 pm

Hey,

According to 3ware, they do support hot swap on parallel ATA drives: http://www.3ware.com/products/parallel_ata.asp

Phade.
User avatar
Phade
Site Admin
 
Joined: 20 Oct 2000
Location: Little cabin in the woods...

Postby eitje » Sat Apr 26, 2003 4:52 pm

Parallel ATA *drives* don't support hotswapping. In the second column, 5th paragraph, that paper describes how, with special drivers and controller firmware, 3ware has been able to work around that. i don't know for sure, but you might even have to use their RAID drive cages to get hot swapping with their RAID cards.

Serial ATA drives support hot-swapping as part of their specs.

I wish I could find the Ultra ATA specs online - a lot of people talk about them, but i can't find a pdf anywhere. :)

So, in conclusion, I hope that you get the golden donut working the way you'd like it, and that the other article I referenced in my previous post has helped. :)[/url]
eitje
 
Joined: 24 May 2002

Postby eitje » Sat Apr 26, 2003 5:01 pm

by the by, are you thinking an AMD machine, or an Intel box?

i'm bias towards Athlon MP systems for cost, but Xeons do tend to hold the upper hand when you look @ overall server performance.

Also, Anand had some good things to say about this prebuilt Opteron server - it's 1U, though. The version he had was designed by Newisys, but built by Appro.

even Configuration B might be a wee bit beyond what you're looking for, however. ;)
eitje
 
Joined: 24 May 2002

Postby eitje » Sat Apr 26, 2003 5:12 pm

one last thing :)
it appears the reason the TR crew built their new server was because their 3ware card would intermittently lose the RAID array information.

"The Problem is a slight little issue with some 3Ware IDE RAID controllers, which sometimes decide to lose all memory of their RAID arrays when confronted by a cold boot."

now, their problem was with RAID 1, so if you were going to use a different RAID level, you might be safe. what RAID level do you plan to use?
eitje
 
Joined: 24 May 2002

Postby Phade » Sat Apr 26, 2003 6:06 pm

Hey,

I'm planning on using 8 hard drives. Six of them will be in RAID 5. Two of them will be sitting there as hot-spare drives. The hot-swap ability is low on the priority list and can be left out if needed. The case will still have hot-swap drive enclosures so that system down time will be a minute or so compared to several minutes to an hour or so for non-hot-swap setup (taking down the server, opening the case, replacing the drive(s), putting the thing back together, and then putting the server back into place).

Most of the bids I've gotten so far have used dual Xeon 2.4G processors. They seem to have the best overall bang-for-buck price ratio. RAM will probably be registered ECC DDR.

I'm also still trying to decide between the WD1200JB drive and the WD2000JB drive. The 120's will yield about 600G of space while the 200's will yield about 1000G of space. The price difference will be about $750.

What would really be helpful is "you can get the entire setup here for this price" kinda information. I'm perdy well versed on how a server should work and such. I really just need to know where to get it and what the price will be.

Thanks again for your help!! ^_^

Phade.
User avatar
Phade
Site Admin
 
Joined: 20 Oct 2000
Location: Little cabin in the woods...

Postby dwchang » Mon Apr 28, 2003 4:43 pm

Phade wrote:Most of the bids I've gotten so far have used dual Xeon 2.4G processors. They seem to have the best overall bang-for-buck price ratio. RAM will probably be registered ECC DDR.


Best bang for buck a dual Xeon....laughable :-P. Xeons are just P4s with slight changes. All they are is Intel's "cheap" solution compared to their Itaniums (which fortunately (for us) suck balls).

Now that the Opteron's are out, they are easily the best bang for buck. Given A) It'll be hard to get some since they JUST launched 5 days ago and B) I work for AMD and am bias. However, if you want benchmarks, dual Opterons beat a Xeon 5 - 40% easily and are cheaper.

Again though..hard to find and not sure on hardware support you need right now. I do however wanna throw out the 4P set-up :) :) :)

If you gotta go classic x86, I still say AMD with a dual 2.167 Mhz Bartons (model 2800+ I believe) with 512 kb cache each. I'm sure Xeons probably would beat them, but the price difference is huge. Regardless, it's widely accepted in the computer architecture field that Xeons are pieces of crap.
-Daniel
Newest Video: Through the Years and Far Away aka Sad Girl in Space
User avatar
dwchang
Sad Boy on Site
 
Joined: 04 Mar 2002
Location: Madison, WI

Postby Phade » Mon Apr 28, 2003 6:27 pm

Hey dwchang,

The problem is that the 3ware RAID card requires a 64bit PCI slot. This requirement GREATLY reduces the number of usable motherboards. Of the remaining available motherboards, the dual Xeon setup remains the best bang-for-buck configuration to date. If you can find a better overall deal (actual total parts cost vs. performance, not just CPU specs), please let me know. ^_^

Phade.
User avatar
Phade
Site Admin
 
Joined: 20 Oct 2000
Location: Little cabin in the woods...

Finally Got An Answer

Postby CrazyCelt » Sat May 03, 2003 1:36 pm

This is the body from the e-mail I just received.

-----------------------

This quote is only valid for about a week. The price flucuations are just too
great anymore.

System Parts List
Component qty Description Unit Price Total Price

Case 1 AIC RMC3Q w/460w PS $750.00 $750.00
Motherboard 1 SuperMicro Dual Xeon X5DAE $638.75 $638.75
CPU 2 Xeon 2.4GHz $245.00 $490.00
Memory 2 512MB DDR PC2100 ECC $95.75 $191.50
Hard Drive 8 Western Digital 200gb 8mb cache $271.75 $2,174.00
Video 1 EVGA 32mb TNT2 M64 AGP $28.00 $28.00
Lan Card 1 Intel Pro 10/100/1000 dual port A/S $183.75 $183.75
CD-Rom 1 24x Mitsumi slim black $60.00 $60.00
Floppy 1 Mitsumi slim black 1.44 FDD $26.00 $26.00
Controller/Terminator 1 3ware Escalade 7500-8 $439.00 $439.00
Misc. 4 HDC-25C06 HS PATA cables $32.00 $128.00
Shipping Box 1 Custom Box $30.00 $30.00
Build Raid 1 Build Raid system $100.00 $100.00

Total $5,239.00
Redundant 460w Power Supply upgrade $500.00
Upgrade to 2GB DDR PC2100 ECC $266.50
Redundant Intel Pro 10/100/1000 dual $183.75
Secondary Total $6,189.25

The prices shown are exact cost from my supplier.
This is/would be a high-end high-availability redundant server.
I will expect a 4% commission on this sale.

-------------------------

Don't know how that compares to others, but I did say that I would post when I got a reply.
User avatar
CrazyCelt
 
Joined: 16 Aug 2001
Location: Yes

Postby eitje » Mon May 05, 2003 10:54 pm

if you still haven't found a server to suit you, i still think you should take a look @ http://www.appro.com if you want a pre-built server. barring that, you should be able to build an AMD MP system yourself for under $3000 matching your specs. i'd probably even build it for you, if it came down to it. ;)

i'm sure i'm annoying the hell out of you by now, so i'll quit after this. :)

case: $500-650
$500 case w/ 6 hotswap bays @ rackmountpro.com
$650 case w/ 9 hot swap bays @ rackmountpro.com
the $500 case looks a little more accessible internally, but (obviously) only supports 6 hot-swap bays.

mobo: $215
Tiger MPX (S2466) specs
Tiger MPX @ googlegear.com
the Tiger MPX is an upgrade to the original Tiger MP (which has been running rock solid for over a year in all of our dual proc servers @ work). has 64-bit PCI slots.

procs: $320 (2x$160)
Athlon MP review - MP 2100+ vs Xeon 2.4
MP 2400+ @ googlegear.com
while the MP 2100+ doesn't give much of a showing against the 2.4 Xeon, other evidence indicates that the 2400+ do perform similarly to the 2.4 Xeons.

RAM: $220 (4x$55)
Crucial-recommended RAM for S2466
definitely registered ECC, though you could probably sneak by with 2x512. i like crucial.

HDDs & controller:
PATA: $2211 (8x$209 + $539)
3ware 7500-8
WD200JD found everywhere. good disk.

SATA: $2511 (8x$239 + $599)
3ware 8500-8
160 GB Seagate drive @ googlegear.com
review of WD SATA drive @ storagereview.com
benchmarks show a pretty solid improvement with Serial ATA (plus HDD-native hot-swap support!) - nothing but SCSI is better!

NIC: $133
gigabit intel NIC @ googlegear.com
of course, you'll want a gigabit NIC in there too. intel's a good choice, and it'll fill your other 64-bit slot.

Other Parts: $150
it looks like those cases take standard CD ROM drives, so that's another $30 bucks if you want it, and we'll say $40 bucks for 2 good heatsinks (vantec's 1U offering, maybe) and another $15 for a floppy drive. the hot swap bays & backplane come with the case, along with a PSU. we'll get a cheapo AGP card, maybe even just an old S3 Virge lying around, that'll be another $15. cabling for another $25, fannage (included in the case, but we'll want more reliable products in the system) is another $25.

in all: $3750-4200

hopefully, you'll consider building your own system - saving over $1000 off the bat compared to a pre-built Xeon solution is quite compelling. if not, at least look at http://www.appro.com. that's what Anandtech uses, and i'm sure they'll offer you a reasonable quote on their 2128 series, and it seems to be what you want.

thanks for indulging me this last time. :)
good luck!
eitje
 
Joined: 24 May 2002

Next

Return to Site Announcements

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests