State of the Org - 10-13-10

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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby Castor Troy » Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:33 pm

At least take solace that the .org is the #1 result on google for "amv" and "anime music videos" rather than youtube.
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby Nya-chan Production » Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:11 pm

Anicsi wrote:(...)youtube is a internet platform with millions of visitors, technical support and tons of videos. You cannot expect the org to become a place like that(...)


Otherwise than the number of visitors (which we can't afford anyway), what is the difference? You have user, technical forums, AMVs.

And the thing is, that you should really do just what you wrote - I think that The Org was always supposed to be a "serious place" - at least (AFAIKO) the admins never got an insight that it should be "Facebook of AMVs"
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby Chained(E)Studio » Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:14 pm

Hmm I'm not sure where to start..

So is it just that the org isnt getting as many viewers and members as it used to be? Is it that the site is slower, not as active?

Maybe looking at different ways of promotion is the way to go. Why are you only concentrating on those who watch anime, and edit anime? Why not find ways to catch the eye of those who DONT edit, or those who DONT watch anime? People like hobbies, and people gravitate towards hobbies. I person who writes fanfiction, could easily find their way to editing, with just simple clicks and advertisements. Now I know advertisments cost money, which could be a problem. BUT how else are you ever going to attract people "outside" the box. Why not even try getting afficialted with anime streaming sites? Is that not possible? or Look at AnimeNewsNetwork? So many people go there that, there are a lot of opportunites. Just looking at anime conventions is just not going to be enough period. Why not find more ways to branch out that way? Most studios of this site have forums, or just sites, if they are already afficialted to the org, why not do it?

Pwolf wrote:..So, get off your asses and learn php :|


I am not sure what you mean by this. But I am going to be honest in how I feel. I came to this site a long time ago, and you know what? I left, strickly because I had no idea where anything was on this site O_O. All I could find, even my sister could find was the search bottom for amvs. Which was really all I was looknig for back then. But depending on what your looking for, those who come to this site. Generally aren't going to know what to do. They dont know that clicking the side bar, drops down more bottoms. WHICH is way youtube is WAY easier. WHY more people floke over there is because its accessible. Learning html, scripting, CSS style sheets, flash everything is a lot of work. But sometimes you have to put in the work to get what you really want you know? It could take a long time, I would imagine changing this whole site over into a simplier style would take like months. But it can be done, if you want it. If I knew more about html, and scripting I would lend you my hands at re-working the site. But yeah, you need to look at the whole picture, not just the promoting side. Those you promote to need to be able to find their way around on here too. Its nice to know the name, but knowning whats inside is what needs to be put out there.

Also you need to keep in mind, that new people, to get new people you need to speak to a new generation. you cant jsut keep the old if you wish to obtain the new.

As for other things,

Logos,
I would put an org logo in my videos without a problem, but that wouldn't work as good. Akross is able to do it because its in the "rules" per actually participating in the actually con, other than that, and those videos that have that logo in them, thats all it is. People dont even watch credis half the time. Sometimes you look for video and you only know its from Akross because the editor named their video "Stall Lord Akross 2008" and people honestly dont want to spend the time putting more stuff into their videos now-a-days anyways.

Youtube/Org junk,
I came back to org because org is org. I want to be a better editor, I want constructive critism, I want to be told what people like and dont like in my videos, I want the truth whether its bad or good or however it comes. Its nice to know but at the same time, its not going to make up how I edit. I may take some points, or flaws people point out, but i am still gonig to edit how I edit, the only thing is. I am going to learn a bit more.

Maybe too, instead of just pointing out the bad, people should point out a good things too. Isn't it like in the job force, you know? A boss is supposed to always start off by telling an employee what she/he does right. What he/she does good. Before they jump to the bad. Why not try that out? Not everyone will honestly do it, but new editors, and editors from youtube are just not going to stay if all they get is. IMPROVE, this this this and that that that were junk, or however comments go. People are more willing to stay, keep posting if they do receive a positive feed back. Or at least feel a little bit better about their editing with it, enough to keep going.

godix wrote:You know, GQ shouldn't be expected to tell us where the community is going. We shouldn't expect to get much feedback from the admins, or worry they're not taking anything seriously. We don't need feedback from the admins. This isn't a dictatorship where our leaders on high give us orders. Users are the community, we should decide and do things ourselves. If anything, we should be the one telling GQ where the community is going.


No sorry you are wrong. It is BOTH. BOTH need to work together to create a better community. We shouldnt be expected to just make everything right as a user, and the admin, just because they are the admin shouldnt be expected to make everything right. Its a group, collaborative, collecting, opinions, everything from both sides. Just look at an mep? It takes ALL members to make an amazing piece of work. NOT jsut the leader and NOT just its members.

Anyways, I dont really ahve much else to say. I think org is fine the way it is. I think it just needs to be more accessible, in a long range. :3
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby Zero Link » Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:39 am

You know, we should hide a-m-v.org logos in every amv. It doesn't have to be imprinted on the entire video, just somewhere in it.. so people would be like oh damn, what's that symbol? Hm... let me do mindless research on it because I see it in amvs all the time! That way amvers all around the world will know we are the number one source for amvs, even though we may not be, but we'll say we are anyway... and they'll believe it because it's all subliminal. Yup, subliminal.

But really, I agree with Brendan on a few aspects. This site has taught me to learn all that technical shit about video and film, and even editing. I wouldn't have some of the opportunities I have now if I haven't came across this site and the inhabitants on it. Plus, this site teaches more about the technical side of video than most colleges I've seen /visited. =\ We may need to go with the subliminal idea.
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby Nya-chan Production » Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:16 am

Chained(E)Studio wrote:
Pwolf wrote:..So, get off your asses and learn php :|


I am not sure what you mean by this. But I am going to be honest in how I feel. I came to this site a long time ago, and you know what? I left, strickly because I had no idea where anything was on this site O_O. All I could find, even my sister could find was the search bottom for amvs. Which was really all I was looknig for back then. But depending on what your looking for, those who come to this site. Generally aren't going to know what to do. They dont know that clicking the side bar, drops down more bottoms. WHICH is way youtube is WAY easier. WHY more people floke over there is because its accessible. Learning html, scripting, CSS style sheets, flash everything is a lot of work. But sometimes you have to put in the work to get what you really want you know? It could take a long time, I would imagine changing this whole site over into a simplier style would take like months. But it can be done, if you want it. If I knew more about html, and scripting I would lend you my hands at re-working the site. But yeah, you need to look at the whole picture, not just the promoting side. Those you promote to need to be able to find their way around on here too. Its nice to know the name, but knowning whats inside is what needs to be put out there.

Also you need to keep in mind, that new people, to get new people you need to speak to a new generation. you cant jsut keep the old if you wish to obtain the new.

godix wrote:You know, GQ shouldn't be expected to tell us where the community is going. We shouldn't expect to get much feedback from the admins, or worry they're not taking anything seriously. We don't need feedback from the admins. This isn't a dictatorship where our leaders on high give us orders. Users are the community, we should decide and do things ourselves. If anything, we should be the one telling GQ where the community is going.


No sorry you are wrong. It is BOTH. BOTH need to work together to create a better community. We shouldnt be expected to just make everything right as a user, and the admin, just because they are the admin shouldnt be expected to make everything right. Its a group, collaborative, collecting, opinions, everything from both sides. Just look at an mep? It takes ALL members to make an amazing piece of work. NOT jsut the leader and NOT just its members.

Anyways, I dont really ahve much else to say. I think org is fine the way it is. I think it just needs to be more accessible, in a long range. :3

pwolf is basically saying "If you want to help, just do it - the mods can't do it all by themselves.", same with godix.
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby Enigma » Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:57 am

So, now to make a yearly subliminal logo :P
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby outlawed » Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:03 pm

I looked through the last few pages and I couldn't posters willing to come up with a consensus whether this site/community is d0med or not =p. Way to fail on the potential drama guys.

I'm curious what event finally caused this official statement. Clearly something happened because if it was just the usual stuff I wouldn't think this post would be stickied in all the forums. At any rate I can only guess at desires for a more modern social networking type tools or front end for the site. If that's what is being asked for I can only guess that it has less to do with distribution of videos and more to do with the fact that the org hasn't been "the" happening place for AMVs in years like it once was back in 2002-2005. While the org is definitely dominant when it comes to the AMV contests on the USA fan convention scene it most certainly has fallen the wayside when it comes to internet exposure, influence, and discussion.

As far as new blood my advice would be don't try to force something. There are many factors here which affect getting new blood in and it's not just the distribution side of the site or the initial attitude someone might get when first posting. Let's also not forget that the opinion of anime in general on the USA side is still on the decline and that fandom is greatly different now as opposed to ten years ago.

No matter what we should remember that in some ways there was a slow schism separating the animemusicvideos.org forum community from the previous Mailing List community for AMV discussion back in 2000-2001. That was ultimately part of an evolution. The only people who can destroy this site are those who are regular participants of it.
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby JaddziaDax » Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:24 pm

Chained(E)Studio wrote:So is it just that the org isnt getting as many viewers and members as it used to be? Is it that the site is slower, not as active?
Maybe looking at different ways of promotion is the way to go. Why are you only concentrating on those who watch anime, and edit anime? Why not find ways to catch the eye of those who DONT edit, or those who DONT watch anime?

I don't think we need to get viewers that don't watch anime. That seems a little silly for (what is essentially) an anime fan site to do. If we really wanted to get more non-anime viewers all we would have to do is allow any type of fan video on the site, and not specify anime. However that would totally take out the A from AMV.

Pwolf wrote:..So, get off your asses and learn php :|
I am not sure what you mean by this.

He means that if you want to improve the site's layout then get out there and learn the programing and present it. It's more productive to do that than to sit around and complain about it. We can't expect all the improvements to lay on the shoulders of the administration because they have lives too. They aren't getting paid to maintain this site, they are all volunteers.

Also you need to keep in mind, that new people, to get new people you need to speak to a new generation. you cant jsut keep the old if you wish to obtain the new.

lol, this sounds like that in order to get new people, you have to get rid of the old people. I hope you mean more that you need to get rid of old ways of doing things.


I may take some points, or flaws people point out, but i am still gonig to edit how I edit, the only thing is. I am going to learn a bit more.

This is the best attitude to have when it comes to org crit in my opinion. Be open to suggestions but in the end you have to realize that you are the one in charge of the final video.

Isn't it like in the job force, you know? A boss is supposed to always start off by telling an employee what she/he does right. What he/she does good. Before they jump to the bad.

This is how it's SUPPOSED to be... however even in the work force it's not always this way. I ended up quitting a job once because my boss was not only screaming at me in front of customers (very unprofessional), but railing my ass about a medical condition that I had almost no control over (Asthma). People are people, and aren't always going to know how to do things "perfectly". I did have two bosses apologize for having to fire me though.

I bet if we had a sticky or a guide telling people how to present constructive criticism they would be ignored/people wouldn't read them. I learned how to give constructive criticism when I was still in grade school. It was part of my class. But not everyone has that kind of exposure, and many people see it as sugar coating.

Why not try that out? Not everyone will honestly do it, but new editors, and editors from youtube are just not going to stay if all they get is. IMPROVE, this this this and that that that were junk, or however comments go. People are more willing to stay, keep posting if they do receive a positive feed back. Or at least feel a little bit better about their editing with it, enough to keep going.

I agree with this statement, and the best way to start trying it out is doing it yourself. I'm not saying that you aren't giving constructive crit, but if you want to change the tone of the forums, you gotta start with yourself. Post more and give the type of crit you think that people need to hear. It's what I did many years ago when I first became active.

godix wrote:You know, GQ shouldn't be expected to tell us where the community is going. We shouldn't expect to get much feedback from the admins, or worry they're not taking anything seriously. We don't need feedback from the admins. This isn't a dictatorship where our leaders on high give us orders. Users are the community, we should decide and do things ourselves. If anything, we should be the one telling GQ where the community is going.

No sorry you are wrong. It is BOTH. BOTH need to work together to create a better community. We shouldnt be expected to just make everything right as a user, and the admin, just because they are the admin shouldnt be expected to make everything right. Its a group, collaborative, collecting, opinions, everything from both sides. Just look at an mep? It takes ALL members to make an amazing piece of work. NOT jsut the leader and NOT just its members.


He means the org is not a dictatorship. Our admins aren't leaders who tell us what to do, they are members of the community who have taken up the responsibility to clean up our messes and help maintain the site. That doesn't mean that the admins/mods are not part of the community. They have just as much voice as anyone else here, so of course they work with us, make polls/garner feedback and listen to suggestions. We have an entire forum dedicated to such a cause.

But as a user, if you see a flaw in the system, it is just that much easier to program it/fix it yourself, and present it for use, rather than just sitting around and bitching about the problem. Even if you don't know programing, if the ideas can be easily implemented they can be used (I know several of mine have been used). But sitting around and complaining behind closed doors gets us nowhere.

If you see a guide that needs to be updated, then write the guide and present it, and if it's a good guide, then it will be listed with the rest of the guides. If you feel you have an important message you think everyone should read in the forums, then compose the post, and if it garners the right type of attention it will be stickied. Not every problem requires you to be an elite programmer.

However if you want an entire site overhaul, and a brand-new layout, then you should probably get to work on designing one and knowing the right type of code, so you can present your ideas. I know lots of the people here are pretty comfortable with how the site is now, so it may not occur to them that the site needs an entire overhaul. But when it comes to something like this, you can't just shout it out there, and expect other people to do the work: it's a lot to ask for from people who only volunteer their time.
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PS. @outlawed - I don't think this community is doomed.
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby Pie Row Maniac » Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:22 pm

I'm of the opinion that if the Org stopped taking itself and the hobby so seriously, it'd be more inviting.
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby DriftRoot » Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:44 pm

And another thing - and this has been a point of irritation with me stretching as far back as I can remember - there is somewhat of an idea floating around that AMVing (and definitely the .Org) is some kind of exclusive club. Yes, this attitude exists to one extent or another with just about any hobby, but the main point I want to make is that - as members - it's really easy to assume that of course everyone knows about the club. The .Org has helped AMVing enormously, the hobby probably wouldn't be what it is today without a site like this, but how often do we give it that kind of credit in public? How often do we just assume that the AMV enthusiasts in the room are all "in" on this and that, if they aren't...too bad for them? Worse, if someone does know about the .Org but perceives it negatively, do we go out of our way to figure out what the issue is and discuss it, or do we automatically label that person as not welcome in the club?

People who don't know about, don't trust, don't like and don't use the .Org are not the enemy. They are people to be waved to, talked to, treated like fellow AMV editors if that's their thing, and, in general, not given the impression that there's any "us vs. them" thing going on, which unfortunately there often is. Hence this thread about trying to get "them" to know and like "us" more. Yeah, we can say we should all relax a little and have more fun with this hobby so we don't have such a bad rap...but in every crowd there's going to be people who just take their hobby way more seriously than the rest. And let's face it, this site is built on the backs of those serious people. Doesn't mean non-serious folks can't enjoy themselves here or benefit from what the .Org has to offer, but this site is what it is and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Story time:
One of my favorite con moments ever was when I got to talk to some folks who thought AMVs were great - they'd go to the panels, watch the contest, attend the after-contest screening - but were totally ignorant of the fact that this site existed. They were absolutely thrilled to discover that there was a community built around this hobby that went way, way beyond the 'Tube. It never crossed my mind to warn them about anything or anyone they might encounter here. Why? Because I wasn't talking about this site as a collection of hardcore AMV editors doing their own serious little thing in their own serious little corner of the Web, I was talking about a-m-v.org as an incredibly valuable resource made up of ideas, knowledge and creative talent. The people may change, but those things don't have to. Isn't that what will keep this community going strong?
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby Nya-chan Production » Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:54 pm

GloryQuestor wrote:We're getting things done.


If anyone forgot what the topic was about ;>
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby JaddziaDax » Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:24 pm

I thought this thread was about banners O:
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby Nya-chan Production » Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:25 pm

Oh, right...

Jaddzia, make moar banners! :<
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby Zarxrax » Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:36 pm

Zero Link wrote:You know, we should hide a-m-v.org logos in every amv.

I'm totally going to start doing this.
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Re: State of the Org - 10-13-10

Postby Zarxrax » Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:46 pm

Is the org currently being redesigned? (like from the ground up?)
Is there any way for us users to see what is planned, and try to influence the design?

And whats wrong with having a huge donation drive and then hiring a team to make the site?
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